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minutemen are kinda cringe, all their power is derived by one person pretty much, they got ownd by gunners and are now running away like losers, only to arrive at the safest place in the commonwealth and do nothing of value whatsoever. not only that but they force you to massacre every other faction they dont like which is just adding to their cringe. in other words, if the player hadn't helped them they would have died and done nothing, regardless of how admirable they may seem.
BoS may come off as intolerant, which in itself is cringe, but taking recent and maybe not so recent history, in world, in account it's not so weird for them to want to crush the synth threat, which again is a real threat regardless if you think synths are sentient or not.
so BoS wins, easy fight
also just to pour more salt on everyone's wounds
sentience is not something that is simply perceived. i know losers like quoting the turing test but thats cringe. the fallout world is a hellhole where most people do not survive. you have raving bandits everywhere doing the most hecked up stuff you could imagine just cause their drugged up and crazy, and so on. in this world where survival is rare, does anyone really think the average person is gonna be like, "wow this robot who replaced my brother, who now presumably is dead, sure seems like he is a human and i should therefore treat him as such"? no
cringe
everyone will rightly see them as a threat because they quite literally are a threat
and that's not even taking into account the more philosophical view of this
how can you know that synths are sentient? suppose in game you could transfer or copy your brain onto a computer. how would you know that that was you? and not a program running the most believable alghorithm of you?
in other words, the computer for all you know could just be imitating you, while the real you, or whoever is copied onto a computer (or synth) is dead
so again, you are in a fallout world hellhole, you probably won't survive and you are being asked to treat walking machines as human, because they COULD be truly sentient.
a machine that has a possibilty, and probably a low one at that, of being truly sentient is supposed to be treated the same as someone you and everyone else can see IS sentient.
so its kinda cringe. and thats not even taking into account the fact that in universe im sure you could just cut open the arm of someone who might be a synth and find out.
so turing test is blown out of the water, we can't know if synths actually are sentient, and people who barely have enough to live on are supposed to compete with things which might not even be humans, but pose as them? lol
Oh, and the "three faction ending" is a bad joke, the player deciding to abandon the plot doesn't mean the plot has been concluded, merely that you are choosing to ignore advancing it.
My character chose the Brotherhood not for altruistic reasons, but for personal ones. Safety by association with a strong faction - a sense of self-reliance tempered with support. A feeling of permanence - a place in the Codex. Gazing at the Prydwen and seeing it as a gateway to a future shrouded in mystery and excitement. Groundedness. That's what it all came down to. I wasn't interested in being the General of anything, nor did I want to be just another brick in the wall, and the Brotherhood offers a balance that addresses that.
But he's a soft guy, that character. He doesn't like imposing on people. He likes helping, but not standing there holding people's hands as they fumble their way through the wasteland. In other words, he's the closest thing left in the world to a member of Lyons' Pride. In order to build a nice, continuous roleplay session around this notion, I modded the game so that the first suit of power armor that was issued to him by the Brotherhood was a set that they had brought with them from the Capital Wasteland with the old Lyons' Pride emblem crudely painted over. The more he learned about Lyons and his "foolish ways", the more he came to identify with them and appreciate them, albeit in a quiet way. He doesn't argue with the Elder, but he also doesn't do things the quick and brutal and easy way. Instead, he will go out of his way to emulate the Brothers who continued to follow Lyons even after the Outcasts had picked up and left the Citadel.
This is the set of power armor I mentioned. Little details like the emblem overlap add a layer of richness to the environment that I'm glad is possible in Fallout 4.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1908077474
Not everything is black and white. Some people play their characters that way. "This is it!" they say. I hear it a lot for BoS fanatics, although for the most part they completely misunderstand what the Brotherhood and the Codex really are. These people are enamoured mostly with Maxon and his diatribes on synths and mutants, and that's enough for them, but they never talk about the feral encounter inside the airport and the manner in which you are able to deal with it, because it is grey and nuanced and hard to wedge into a diehard belief system that lines up strictly with Maxon's personal philosophy.
Incidentally, if you're wondering what's up with his eyes, they're synthetic.
The idea of sentient, self awareness is a long debated topic in science fiction. I've always made the same argument you have regarding transferring the memories of a human brain into a computer. Would that be a you, or a machine that just thinks it's you?
But here is the issue. It's all just conjecture. What's the difference between a biological computer and a mechanical one? We have consciousness, but we don't know where it comes from. What would a synth have? That's unknown. What's the difference between a human and a bug when it comes to consciousness and self awareness, what cause a life form to have self awareness? These are all valid discussion points, and our view of them is based on our perception of our existence. So obviously there are preference at work in the choices we make when playing a game like this.
I am completely convinced that when the time comes that a human looking and acting human replicas can be built, people will fall in love with them.
For myself, in Fallout 4, I made the decision I felt best with. There was no way I was going to pick the institute after establishing all the relationships I did in the Comonwealth and I learned my son, in his Institute mindset, turned me loose in the wasteland as an experiment to see if I would survive. That little *******!
Difference of option accepted.
True, the plot ignores alot, and I believe that is due to the story changing midway through.
I like your explanation and accept it as a valid choice.:) For myself I role-play, I imagine myself first meeting the Minutemen, and then the Railroad. I like the people I meet and I like the Brotherhood of Steel although they strike me as too militaristic, although I recognize in a wasteland, this is what you might need for survival. You'd only know who you would choose if you were actually in this situation, and you might pick a strong militaristic faction for survival.
But the problem with it, it's not a democracy. Elder Maxim is a warlord, and as long as you like where he leads, all is well. But what happens when there is dissent? I'm not well versed in Fallout lore, but does the BoS have civilian masters whose orders they carry out?
Now, you can roleplay that you gave settlements some sort of democratic system in which they elect local leaders and/or officials, but there is nothing in the framework of any faction that would lead me to believe they are anything other than large paramilitary forces lead by individuals who wield supreme and unquestioned power.
imagine this.
you are basically starving, in your small community of 10 people.
you know that synths sometimes just attack people, so you know they are bad, or at least CAN be bad with unkown reasons why.
imagine, in this community, that one person has been replaced by a synth.
you will basically be giving away resources to a parasite, for all you know.
imagine if this went on, and 9/10 people were synths.
90% of your already scarce resources are being given away to things which are NOT human, and probaly not even sentient.
that is harsh in a survival setting, let alone a highly advanced one such as our times, where the possibility of doing harm is much greater on their part.
so like i said at the beginning and you also; we can't know and that's the problem. you do know that your child is a human and it needs food, imagine having your child killed and replaced with a machine. no one is going to go along with that for philosophical reasons like "we can't see the difference so who cares" it will bother you
It isn't the clone's fault that they are what they are. At all. Their existence isn't something they chose. And if they are in fact biological organisms, which they are, and they have organic brains, which they do, and they have free will, which is easily observable, then they aren't the enemy. Their creators are the enemy. They manufactured this crisis.
Maxon has what can only be described as a reductionist viewpoint on this issue, and I think a lot of BoS players agree with it, but the reality of the situation is far more complicated than that. One of the reasons I play as a Brotherhood member who doesn't go out of his way to kill synths and ghouls is because the character couldn't reconcile his own observations with the zero tolerance philosophy preached by Maxon, so he nods and smiles and then does things his own way. He now heads up his own Commonwealth chapter based on the Pride for this reason.
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/28085
This is the best end for f4
There's also one that adds content Bethesda actually cut from the game which allows you to convince Danse to go back and fight Maxon for the job of Elder. The fact that it was original content suggests that the BoS would in fact be alright if a synth ended up being their leader.
It's called The Danse Dilema.
in other words, how can we know that it is in FACT person A's conscience but just in a synthetic body, and not a reductionist sort of alghorithm of that person? a cheap imitation and amalgamation of all that persons choices and habits up until that point where the person was "cloned" or "transferred"?
we cannot and that is the whole problem. even if we accept the premise that it is good to treat machines well, that does not mean that those machines should be allowed any leniency in any society, simply because we can never know if they truly are sentient (i.e. truly are the person they were) and not just a robot "corpse" taking up space and resources, and possibly (factually in the fallout universe) threatening the lives of other real humans
No arguments from me, other than I disagree. :) I don't remember the Minutemen, telling anyone to do anything. Their stated goals are to help elevate the Commonwealth, provide assistance and defecto law enforcement for what could be described as lawlwesness, eliminate threats to settlements, bandits, monsters, etc.
Even as a General, which is really not laid out as a realistic role, because you are a general who commands no-one. This part of the game is a void in F4. You roam the Commonwealth and come across Minutemen, who don't even acknowledge that you are a general in their organization. Where are they getting their orders? You go to the Castle, this is where I told Garvey to go and he and the settlement seems to be busy doing their own things and he spends most of the game telling you what to do. ;)
The Railroad, has a leader, but their role is like real life underground railroads. Sure Desdemona is in charge, but characters like Deacon can defer and go off and hang out at a Settlement and no-one is looking to execute them for desertion like the Brotherhood does. Tinker Tom had his sensor project, PAM is directing you for most of the game, although you can decline all of these assignments if you don't feel like it.
Realistically regarding quests, even the Brotherhood quests in effect are ike this, but that's a limitation of the game. The military nature of the organization and the implied compliance is there. Look at the Blind Betrayal quest. Elder Maxum gave me an order to go hunt Dance down and kill him. In most cases there is no time limit to get something done, and I just accept that as how the game if structured to make it workable.