Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade

Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade

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Kyras 22 AGO 2020 a las 18:06
why do we not play xenos
Are they garbage like whats up
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Mostrando 1-15 de 16 comentarios
the_green_one 24 AGO 2020 a las 6:09 
tough question to tackle, bcs the answers you'll get are very opinionated.
i'll try and give as much of an objective explanation as the circumstances allow.

TL;DR:
xeno factions never were as popular as humanoid ones, thus weren't able to sustain a regular playerbase after EC had passed it's prime.
orks blindly believed their leader's claims that they were underpowered, and just sorta packed up and left when he did.
good eldar players basically got bullied out of existence.



why do xenos not have an established playerbase?
they used to, a long time ago, albeit never even remotely as numerous than lsm or csm.
BUT: both eldar and orks were generally not well received, and every loyalist complained about them for either specific reasons or just bcs post match chat repeated "eldar/orks OP" until it got burnt into every new player's brain circuits.

you might be aware that lsm traditionally have the highest numbers of players, and the highest share of newbies. this led to the "eldar/orks OP" claim being voiced the loudest, while spreading a lot of misinformation about what exactly is and isn't OP - funnily enough the leader of the biggest ork guild of the time (DLB) kept unironically demanding buffs for the objectively most "OP" faction in the game. orks are the most forgiving faction for a lot of reasons. not getting these buffs and feeling ignored he first threatened and then actually made his whole guild leave the game over this.
DLB made up for probably 95% of the ork playerbase back then, so, basically over night the dimwit made a full faction disappear from the game.


eldar were active for a while longer than greenskins, with MYST trying to keep a presence up until late 2019/early 2020 if i'm not mistaken. there was a lot of complaints about "guildstacking", and they suffered a lot from good players simply avoiding fighting them, leaving very weak lsm newbie teams to get absolutely roflstomped into oblivion - which isn't very fun for either side. they slowly faded out of existence when very strong individual players (those 60+ kills per match guys) started to losely group up on lsm in order to "hunt" eldar and make them stop queueing. needless to say, a lot of bitterness was distributed on both sides during/after each match, which made these matchups even less enjoyable.



why did the eldar/ork populations not recover?
from a newbie lsm's point of view, playing against orks holds a lot of frustrating moments:
they kill you incredibly fast while themselves being almost impossible to kill, and they burn you/poison you/explode you until you are so fed up you beg people to go back to lsm/csm soup.
fighting eldar from a newbie lsm's point of view feels very similar:
they move so quickly you can't hit them, and you rarely understand why you just died bcs that glimpse you caught of an eldar was just the bait for the other 4 xenos to kill you from behind in what feels like 0.1 seconds. also, invisible venomous melee troops? flying sniper rifles?
there's a lot to be confused about as a new player, which makes for an unpleasant experience.

this led to premium users (often the good vet players) simply starving the eldar and ork queues, while the poor f2p dudes (often low rank newish players) had no choice but to get their noggins bashed in ad nauseam by orks/eldar until not enough player remained online to start a match vs xenos.



why do we not play xenos at the present time?
bcs we barely have enough players to keep the lsm/csm soup going - and even this is suffering from loyalist fanboyism. if you take a few minutes to observe the worldmap from all 4 faction's viewpoints, a pattern becomes clear. EVERYONE and their mother log in as loyalist.

shortly before matches start picking up on any day, numbers look close to this:
25 lsm online (17 in PVE, 8 in garrison)
8 csm in PVE
1 eldar in garrison
0 orks
(not counting those that sit in "battle now" queue)

even if you somehow convinced enough lsm to queue as ork/eldar, it would probably mostly be the newer less experienced players and they'd be facing superior numbers repeatedly until they are too frustrated of being outnumbered and/or outskilled.

needless to talk about how splitting the amount of players into 3 or more factions will start less matches than splitting into only 2 factions.

now if only lsm and csm would get their numbers even...
Última edición por the_green_one; 24 AGO 2020 a las 6:11
Kyras 24 AGO 2020 a las 9:11 
wow thanks
cleric66 24 AGO 2020 a las 12:57 
good description greenie.
bansis 24 AGO 2020 a las 16:18 
the green bastard nails it
Trooper909 26 AGO 2020 a las 1:12 
To add to The green ones points from an Ork players perspective (have all faction level 6 tho)

Minus the DLB drama Orks quit because we was nerfed almost every single patch since release without a single fix.You can't even throw a nade from cover as an Ork for example.

We asked for fixes for the painboy (most useless weakest class in game) in a stream and the devs litterally laughed and mocked us.

LSM community was always totally toxic toward xeno players in the forums for some reason as well.Yeah actual racism towards virtual races in a video game I ♥♥♥♥♥ you not.It was damn right bizarre. I've never seen anything like it before or since.

Alienating players of a whole faction is a sure fire way to kill it.
cleric66 26 AGO 2020 a las 2:46 
Good point, Bias against What can be considered ugly even in a Fantasy setting and virtual setting is a thing and getting worse as time goes .

Orkz and Nerfs, Yeah that pissed me off, they did readdress with the relaunch in 2017 and gave some mojo back, but the major ork population had quit.

Eldar suffered double major nerfs and a few minor ones, So the big problem here is that the opinion is they are still to powerful, and thats not true.

The LSM/CSM are set up as almost carbon copies of each other, but the emphasis for LSM was on fighting the CSM, therefore they lack troop types and weapons you would pick from a codex on a tabletop to fight Xenos.

And The LSM had become weak on the Tabletop during the Decade this games armies are based on, The Relaunch by Gamesworkshop of the Space Marines and Introduction of Primaris, coincides with the launch of Eternal Crusade, 2016. It was too late to include them or revise .

The Major nerf of LSM robbing them of Toughness and stamina, meant they could no longer be great at Melee, the weapon nerfs for ranged meant LSM players felt underpowered and they were. Somewhat fixed in 2018 relaunch.

Pandoras box = Nerfs, The game was Playtested, it might have been Fastwalked and Launched as an Early Beta, but it was heavily playtested by what is now a huge community compared to us few left , And should have been left alone.
the_green_one 26 AGO 2020 a las 6:25 
i agree with your addendum, Trooper909.
the mechanically broken parts of orks are a shame, for example it always annoyed me that they can't shoot over low cover, stuff like that. i'd love to have them fixed in exchange for massive nerfs where they'd be needed.

bcs imho these inconveniences involuntarily helped balance out all the ork's blatant statistical advantages.

yeah yeah, this thread is not about balance. :)

and i'm absolutely with you on that toxicity/racism topic. even if we are playing on different teams, we're still playmates sitting in the same sandpit. what would be the point of driving u away?
Cursed Hawkins 26 AGO 2020 a las 11:54 
Publicado originalmente por the_green_one:
i agree with your addendum, Trooper909.
the mechanically broken parts of orks are a shame, for example it always annoyed me that they can't shoot over low cover, stuff like that. i'd love to have them fixed in exchange for massive nerfs where they'd be needed.

bcs imho these inconveniences involuntarily helped balance out all the ork's blatant statistical advantages.

yeah yeah, this thread is not about balance. :)

and i'm absolutely with you on that toxicity/racism topic. even if we are playing on different teams, we're still playmates sitting in the same sandpit. what would be the point of driving u away?
Well on the topic of the toxicity/racism in the case of 40K you can very easily start roleplaying as your selected faction which that toxicity/racism can be molded into so long as its done correctly.
Deathwish40K 26 AGO 2020 a las 13:45 
Publicado originalmente por Cursed Hawkins:
Publicado originalmente por the_green_one:
i agree with your addendum, Trooper909.
the mechanically broken parts of orks are a shame, for example it always annoyed me that they can't shoot over low cover, stuff like that. i'd love to have them fixed in exchange for massive nerfs where they'd be needed.

bcs imho these inconveniences involuntarily helped balance out all the ork's blatant statistical advantages.

yeah yeah, this thread is not about balance. :)

and i'm absolutely with you on that toxicity/racism topic. even if we are playing on different teams, we're still playmates sitting in the same sandpit. what would be the point of driving u away?
Well on the topic of the toxicity/racism in the case of 40K you can very easily start roleplaying as your selected faction which that toxicity/racism can be molded into so long as its done correctly.
it's almost as if 40K mirrors real life in a way.
cleric66 27 AGO 2020 a las 2:29 
Yes, and if you go back to the early days, sadly when i was about 30 years old, All the Brains that be Games workshop would say in White Dwarf That they were basing it off of known world events and then bending it to they're new revision, Literally and figuratively.

The world in 1990 is so different from today it seems backwards and upside down, Communist dictatorships have fallen away only to be replaced by Rightwing dictatorships, The problem is, most of these are based on Nationalism, and that Nationalism is based on Sameness not something like Economic empowerment or equality, or some kind of personal freedom and liberties.

Sameness, means everybody has to be the same, in the case of this game, looking ugly or being a different race or color. I'm pretty sure the Original game Gods never intended to foster this kind of atmosphere or ideals, this was all meant to be a game and fun, and is supposed to be taken figuratively not literally. Literally look at 1945 and see where the Earth was at, and only fools would wish to Repeat those mistakes. Look at 2020 now, and see the fools trying to push us all into another 1945.
Cursed Hawkins 28 AGO 2020 a las 9:48 
Publicado originalmente por Deathwish40K:
Publicado originalmente por Cursed Hawkins:
Well on the topic of the toxicity/racism in the case of 40K you can very easily start roleplaying as your selected faction which that toxicity/racism can be molded into so long as its done correctly.
it's almost as if 40K mirrors real life in a way.
Oh I'm not disagreeing that toxicity/racism exists in the game which is why I added that it had to be done correctly, the moment someone starts taking things into where racial slurs and religious insults start being a thing then its no longer roleplaying in my eyes!
Deathwish40K 29 AGO 2020 a las 19:33 
Publicado originalmente por Cursed Hawkins:
Publicado originalmente por Deathwish40K:
it's almost as if 40K mirrors real life in a way.
Oh I'm not disagreeing that toxicity/racism exists in the game which is why I added that it had to be done correctly, the moment someone starts taking things into where racial slurs and religious insults start being a thing then its no longer roleplaying in my eyes!
so calling someone a Mon'Kei (or however you spell it) is over the line? and for religious slurs, well.... 40k is chock full of religious slurs. fictional religious slurs but still.
Chilli Dog Dave 30 AGO 2020 a las 4:14 
honestly they could somewhat save the "xeno" races by tying them into LSM and CSM factions, i mean it worked for many Warhammer 40k lore battles, games etc, having the Space Marines ally with the Eldar or the Chaos and Orkz having a truce to stomp a goal they both wanted.

crossing LSM with Eldar and CSM with Orkz might not save the game but it would at least increase the player base somewhat since you could actually play our faction again.
Deathwish40K 1 SEP 2020 a las 0:29 
Publicado originalmente por Chilli Dog Dave:
honestly they could somewhat save the "xeno" races by tying them into LSM and CSM factions, i mean it worked for many Warhammer 40k lore battles, games etc, having the Space Marines ally with the Eldar or the Chaos and Orkz having a truce to stomp a goal they both wanted.

crossing LSM with Eldar and CSM with Orkz might not save the game but it would at least increase the player base somewhat since you could actually play our faction again.
maybe in the afterlife when bE pulls the plug and someone figures out how to host a private server. in the event THAT ever happens, you would see termis, bikes, custom loadouts for vehicles, better vet loudout options. all kinds of stuff that the studio never got around to doing.
Skullface 1 SEP 2020 a las 5:53 
https://steamcommunity.com/app/375230/discussions/0/2260187517780584780/

mixing races would create an imbalance from beyond.

Theres way too many silly combinations beyond good, and since this is a dead end anyhow...

probably the 1vs1 thing was turned on by accident, just like the last time during one of the Campaigns.
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