CrossCode

CrossCode

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OK, I just have to say, some of these bosses/enemies are infuriating...
Not necessarily impossible or even hard, but just super unfun to fight and annoying to boot. Why? Because they force you into fighting them their exact way so to speak. You have to fight them according to a very specific pattern. And even THAT wouldn't necessarily be so bad, but some of these patterns like the sandshark's require not only very precise timing but exact aiming. So when you fail to meet any of those standards, you don't get any purchase on your hits whatsoever while they're completely free to land hits on you if you don't dodge fast and precisely enough. And there's absolutely no way to outmaneuver them. No way to break through with raw strength (if you had specialized in that).

In a game that gives you this much freedom of movement and a huge multitude of combat abilities, all the options kind of feels pointless when it forces you to participate in a super fast-paced game of whack-this-particular-mole-at-this-exact-time-using-this-exact-tool-or-nothing-happens. And I know that perhaps some people like that kind of punishment and that kind of demand for precision, but for me personally, I find that the combat in this game is at its best when it takes the chains off of the player and lets them execute enemies according to how they wish as long as they're not stupidly standing in the way of attacks.

Minor enemy spoiler: For example, in the boss fight with the virtual bunny, you are given certain attacks you must dodge and certain elements that would be more viable to use than others, but otherwise, as long as you can dodge skillfully and place the shots onto the enemy, you were free to dispatch him however you wanted.

But in a quest to take down a rampant fiery bull, you have to freeze a water block, make him run into it, hit him in the back, then wait till he goes in the middle, then hit him in the back some more very quickly while he pauses for literally a second after an attack to disable the shield, and then finally, worst of all, freeze a bubble and then line up an exact angle shot so it hits the right block (which is off-screen) so it goes behind his forward-facing fire shield. And then repeat that entire process all over again two more times. Oh and, of course, you need to do this all while under constant heavy fire and you need to watch your elemental overload.


Could it be worse? Sure, it could be worse. And yes, some games in the past have been a lot more punishing. But we're not talking about making virtual torture. We're talking about taking advantage of an otherwise exceptional combat system in an otherwise stellar game (still haven't finished it at all). Now, at this point, this game is finished and it has been for a while, so that's just how it is, but I wish I had caught the devs much earlier on this one.
Last edited by Artificial; Feb 18 @ 11:23am
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
Songbird Feb 18 @ 4:54pm 
Um... it's a 2D game with what is honestly a rather basic set of options in combat at any given time. Short of making the game a bullet hell, I don't really see a better way to make combat interesting than give enemies unique mechanics and include puzzle fights and fights that require trick shots. There are a few straight-up fights where you just have to parry/dodge a bunch of attacks and then get an opening, but I wouldn't say they're any better or worse than a lot of the puzzle fights.

The cursed shark boss is exceptionally tedious and takes way too long for how trivially easy it is, I'll grant you that.
Joshyy Feb 18 @ 5:09pm 
There are very few enemies in the game that follow the guise you refer to. Even so, don't you think the majority would probably dislike it if there was no variety? If you could simply waltz through the game like a hack and slash (and even most hack n slashes have enemies with combat patterns), how exactly would that be utilizing the combat system?

And even for those that wish to simply barrage their way through enemies, there are workarounds for this almost 100% of the time. You could party up, which makes almost every fight easy enough to not worry about health. You could simply not fight certain things - there are ways to get most items and exp without having to fight specific things. You don't have to do the side quests. You can turn down the difficulty of fights if it's too difficult. Give your character hp regen items. Most players go through the game not even taking into account their equipment effects, their stats balance, element effects, or using any of the consumable item buffs. Which gives you an idea of how much more there is to this game's combat system, should you wish to use it.

Either way I don't get your issue. Why would you limit yourself and not learn the ins and outs of an extremely in-depth combat system? It's so much more than simply swinging your blade and throwing balls. The game can be completed without learning how to perfect different combat mechanics, but it's so much more rewarding and satisfying once you start implementing all the tricks. I completed the game not really knowing much about the different item effects and combat mechanics relatively easily. I then played through it again limiting myself to the bronze chestplate and was forced to discover different ways to defend myself and avoid attacks. I'm now playing through without using circuit upgrades at all, and I'm playing even more differently and finding new ways to do things.

Tl;dr, Crosscode is not a hack n slash. It's combat system constantly builds on new skills, and while fights don't always necessarily require you to master each one, you'd be severely missing out if you didn't take the opportunity to learn more than the basics. This is why most players could soak up the story, collectibles and varying gameplay for well over 50 hours in a playthrough, and speedrunners are dropping their completion times to under 3 hours. The game is only as restrictive as you make it, but the deeper you dive the more satisfying it becomes.
Last edited by Joshyy; Feb 18 @ 5:13pm
Artificial Feb 18 @ 10:19pm 
I think you guys are confusing a couple of my statements. I'm not saying that these enemies/bosses are hard. I'm saying they're unfun to fight due to some of them having incredibly picky timing windows, having incredibly picky vulnerable areas, and some of them even requiring exact tools to hit those areas on top of both of those other requirements.

I'm not saying all enemy patterns are bad at all nor am I talking about enemy variety. Just the ones that give you too little room to attack them. Then it doesn't become a game of wits anymore, nor of improvisation, nor of moment-to-moment skill but how closely can you memorize and follow this bizarrely exact and long chain of actions, or if you can hit this enemy with this one exact attack at this one exact moment.

Yeah, as you said, it's not that hard because the regen buffs can turn you into Wolverine, and you're constantly showered with consumables that stay relevant all through the game on top of that. But as you also said, this game has a very deep combat system, and I feel like, a little too often, it's not really letting itself get used to its full potential at all.
Last edited by Artificial; Feb 18 @ 10:21pm
Templar999 Feb 18 @ 11:52pm 
Hmm, Maybe you just do not understand the game fighting rules enough? Sorry for the minor spoiler but-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxhWTU_9yFk

Also sounds like you have been ignoring guard arts as well which helps force openings in general. Give guard sphere or frozen stance a shot with your current progress.
Different enemies require different strategies. I disliked the boss you mention as well, though not because of the method needed to beat him but because of not being able to see far enough while aiming to make sure the charged shot lands.
I think maybe the issue is more that its annoying to not be able to force the issue on the enemies sometimes. Even then, there are workarounds for a lot of issues.

The sharks are boring for sure but mostly because you have to wait for them to decide to attack. I don't really see the problem in requiring trick shots and precise dodges. That's what the combat system is designed for. Once you get more stuff you can also leave ice trails for them to run into.

Pretty sure you don't have wave for the fire bull normally but if you put off the sidequest until you get wave form you should be able to use the decoy dash skill to make it much easier.

Not every enemy is perfect but I can't think of any I'd personally consider infuriating. If anything I'm sad they didn't force some of the mechanics harder. I think most people go through the game without ever really using perfect guards or guard arts and thats a pretty powerful option that makes fights more fun.
Josprens Aug 11 @ 1:09pm 
Dude you can beat the Fire Hog with just hitting his bums with Ice element
Originally posted by Josprens:
Dude you can beat the Fire Hog with just hitting his bums with Ice element

I made this topic like half a year ago. XD Why did you bump it?
tℨopc Aug 11 @ 3:24pm 
Since its bumped, I find the bosses as basically the only reason why I dislike this game. Few frustrating puzzles but they are far more infrequent and less frustrating in the end (except the puzzles that are nearly off the screen after getting them on the screen with the annoying loud music that requires the volume to be lowered for adding to the frustration). Yeah lol.
Last edited by tℨopc; Aug 11 @ 3:28pm
Originally posted by tℨopc:
Since its bumped, I find the bosses as basically the only reason why I dislike this game. Few frustrating puzzles but they are far more infrequent and less frustrating in the end (except the puzzles that are nearly off the screen after getting them on the screen with the annoying loud music that requires the volume to be lowered for adding to the frustration). Yeah lol.

For me, it was the equipment grind. I have a few pet peeves when it comes to gaming, and Diablo-esque loot systems are definitely one of them. Some people like it, but I'm not one of those.
Originally posted by Artificial:
Originally posted by tℨopc:
Since its bumped, I find the bosses as basically the only reason why I dislike this game. Few frustrating puzzles but they are far more infrequent and less frustrating in the end (except the puzzles that are nearly off the screen after getting them on the screen with the annoying loud music that requires the volume to be lowered for adding to the frustration). Yeah lol.

For me, it was the equipment grind. I have a few pet peeves when it comes to gaming, and Diablo-esque loot systems are definitely one of them. Some people like it, but I'm not one of those.
You are bonkers if you think the loot system is like Diablo. It's just basic RPG. On topic, I really just hate enemies that force you to twiddle your thumbs and wait for them to pop up. I'm pretty sure I complained about this back in beta, specifically about the turtles(?) And sharks in the desert area.
Sera Aug 11 @ 6:15pm 
I confirm, Diablo is 100 times worse than this. This game is well balanced in comparison. But yeah, some enemies have different gimmicks though it's not all that so bad. Could be worse...
tℨopc Aug 12 @ 4:23am 
Originally posted by Artificial:
Originally posted by tℨopc:
Since its bumped, I find the bosses as basically the only reason why I dislike this game. Few frustrating puzzles but they are far more infrequent and less frustrating in the end (except the puzzles that are nearly off the screen after getting them on the screen with the annoying loud music that requires the volume to be lowered for adding to the frustration). Yeah lol.

For me, it was the equipment grind. I have a few pet peeves when it comes to gaming, and Diablo-esque loot systems are definitely one of them. Some people like it, but I'm not one of those.

Equipment grind is a bit of a pain though I don't think its that bad here, except that the bosses made it necessary. I haven't really done that much grinding but perhaps that is part of what led to me lowering the difficulty for the whale and monkey boss.
Risoka Aug 12 @ 5:51am 
Uh? The equipments you get from quests (you can get good ones with puzzles too) are more than enough to beat the game tho...
I actually like they make you think against bosses/even mobs, it really suits this game. In the end, playing 40 hours of a game just pressing a few buttons or doing the same strategy over and over would be very boring.
Btw, I love beating the monkey boss :<

Btw, guard arts are op, whoever wants a easy game, just use it.
Yes, some of the bosses are extremely tedious... But each boss is a puzzle -that's the point. Timing and aim are part of that puzzle.
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CrossCode > General Discussions > Topic Details