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Why did they bother putting so much effort into the combat?
Really...the combat in this game is fantastic, but what's the point when it's a minor feature of the game at best? They put painstaking effort into making the combat feel smooth and fun, creating dozens of stats for both offense and defense, gorgeous and powerful combat arts... carefully balancing everything so hardly anything can be unfairly exploited and nothing is ineffective.

But why bother when the game consists of puzzle, puzzle, platforming depth perception puzzle, side caves consisting of puzzles, massive puzzle dungeons consisting of countless time-intensive, precision-demanding and often counter intuitive puzzles? At one point there are three enormous puzzle dungeons consisting of exactly the above one after the other after the other with nary a break in between.

The combat mechanics and vast combat system went entirely to waste in what is for all intents and purposes strictly a puzzle game
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Well that's were opinions differ.

Without all the puzzles and sophisticated dungeon designs I probably would've scrapped the game long ago. The free roam exploration is a nice change of pace, but starts to feel dull after a while, honestly to me it feels like busywork until the next exciting dungeon appears. The game isgenuinely influenced by titles like "Alundra" Action-Adventure who offer a wide variety of action and plattforming gameplay and blends it seamless with puzzles.

The combat really feels good and is smooth, but of course it's not the most complex and it was never designed to be overly complex. That's were that nice ball throwing feature comes in where you still have a lot of room to improve since it tests you accurary in stress situations.

In this case, every challenge CrossCode provides was cleverly combined with ball throwing features which stretches its influence to the game as a leitmotif. Many rooms may look like puzzles to you, but often times they test your reflexes and accuracy more than your braincells, I actually think it a bit unfair to designate them solely as puzzles. In that case you could many of the bosses puzzles too since it requires to you at least slightly a bit more effort to beat them.

Last but not least I don't think that combat in this game is underpresented, the whole open world exploration is very combat focused they can take as much time as you willing to spend. To 100% complete each area you will invest many hours of playsessions.

Dungeons may focus more on navigation, but these are most of the time the parts were the most challenging fights await you. While you most of the time blast thorugh the open world as a power fantasy, the fights in dungeons are more designed in arena combat style where an particular wave is designed to offer a specific challenge.
Not to mention the same argument can be said for games like MGS. why have combat bosses and so many weapon systems if the game revolves around stealth? or mechanics of having different weapons and skill levels in games like Secret of Mana if the end boss can ONLY be hurt by the sword in the MC hand with one spell from each side character being forced to be casted on him when he holds it. It was the first game that me and my friend where ♥♥♥♥♥♥ off at when we played 2 player the whole time. that mechanic//requirement was not used the whole time, but the last boss.
This "problem" only applies if you beeline from one main objective to the next. Exploration and sidequests give you plenty of time to enjoy the combat and polish your skills.
I think that depends entirely on how you play the game. I never felt like any parts of the game were lacking. In fact, I feel like some of the puzzles could've used some more editing. But besides the grey NPC portraits, I never felt like anything's lacking or underused.
Originally posted by EdgarAllenSwole:
This "problem" only applies if you beeline from one main objective to the next. Exploration and sidequests give you plenty of time to enjoy the combat and polish your skills.
So yeah, pretty much this. The vast majority of the content outside dungeons revolves around combat. Our current endgame (the arena) is combat through and through, no puzzles involved whatsoever.

If all this side content encouraging combat wasn't there, I would understand the complaint. Would make sense then for them to give as little attention as possible to combat if it wasn't used so much, which would probably make people wonder why there's combat at all. But with so much content making the whole system shine, it's the player's own fault that they didn't go out of the beaten path, something the game encourages with sprawling maps, treasures, secrets, and quite a decent number of side quests for a game developed by such a small team.
Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

Last but not least I don't think that combat in this game is underpresented,

I wish I could agree with this. The "manalike" genre has been heavily neglected and mostly forgotten over the decades. I mean, what has really been released in the genre after Seiken Densetsu 3 besides those Ys games that are absurdly unbalanced messes with extremely basic combat mechanics? There's Secrets of Grindea, which I like a lot, but I think Halley's Comet will be seen again before that game is finished.

Originally posted by EdgarAllenSwole:
This "problem" only applies if you beeline from one main objective to the next. Exploration and sidequests give you plenty of time to enjoy the combat and polish your skills.


Originally posted by unnecesaurus 🌈:
quote=EdgarAllenSwole;1634166237658718863]This "problem" only applies if you beeline from one main objective to the next. Exploration and sidequests give you plenty of time to enjoy the combat and polish your skills.
So yeah, pretty much this. The vast majority of the content outside dungeons revolves around combat.

Interesting. I'm pretty far into the game (just completed Grand Krys'kajo) and I can't say I've had similar experiences at all. I've done the overwhelming majority of the side content, and the overwhelming majority of said content involved finding ways to reach a higher platform (often involving puzzles. Sometimes off-screen precision-demanding puzzles and some which are sometimes multiple screens away from the objective) to get a box of fruit snacks or whatever... and some caves which contain yet more puzzle platforming. Also some time challenges in areas of previously completed dungeons where you can voluntarily add impairments to your character. From what I've seen these areas are focused on highly precision demanding platforming.

There were certainly a few combat-oriented side quests. I think I found a total of 3 optional bosses (one of them being a particularly hardass bull which was essentially a geometry timing puzzle in itself). There was one tower defense type quest which was really fun, albeit way too easy. I wish there were more of those with incremental increases in difficulty.

I just feel like so much could have been done with the combat, given again how much obvious love was put into making it as polished and expansive as it is. It could have been much better utilized if they'd have balanced the content of the game to be more 50/50 combat/puzzles, rather than 15/85



Originally posted by tsjanith:
Originally posted by unnecesaurus 🌈:
quote=EdgarAllenSwole;1634166237658718863]This "problem" only applies if you beeline from one main objective to the next. Exploration and sidequests give you plenty of time to enjoy the combat and polish your skills.
So yeah, pretty much this. The vast majority of the content outside dungeons revolves around combat.

Interesting. I'm pretty far into the game (just completed Grand Krys'kajo) and I can't say I've had similar experiences at all. I've done the overwhelming majority of the side content, and the overwhelming majority of said content involved finding ways to reach a higher platform (often involving puzzles. Sometimes off-screen precision-demanding puzzles and some which are sometimes multiple screens away from the objective) to get a box of fruit snacks or whatever... and some caves which contain yet more puzzle platforming. Also some time challenges in areas of previously completed dungeons where you can voluntarily add impairments to your character. From what I've seen these areas are focused on highly precision demanding platforming.

There were certainly a few combat-oriented side quests. I think I found a total of 3 optional bosses (one of them being a particularly hardass bull which was essentially a geometry timing puzzle in itself). There was one tower defense type quest which was really fun, albeit way too easy. I wish there were more of those with incremental increases in difficulty.

I just feel like so much could have been done with the combat, given again how much obvious love was put into making it as polished and expansive as it is. It could have been much better utilized if they'd have balanced the content of the game to be more 50/50 combat/puzzles, rather than 15/85
Oh, you're actually just about halfway through the game. I find it weird that you had little content leading to combat. It is true that a lot of side content involves platforming and minor puzzles, but I can't agree that so little of it involves combat. Throughout the game, most of the quests I did involved combat one way or another. Every dungeon also have a handful of rooms where you have to fight mobs to progress, not to mention the bosses.

I don't know what you're doing that combat is so underutilized. Maybe you've been grinding so much that you kill enemies too easily. Maybe you skip the combat portion of quests when possible (it isn't always possible).

Maybe your perception comes from the fact we spend a lot of time inside dungeons and that the reflex/puzzle-like sections of dungeons and side quests are often time-consuming. But for three people to tell you that you're actually wrong about combat being underrepresented, I'm pretty sure there's something you're doing that's making it less relevant.
Originally posted by unnecesaurus 🌈:

Maybe your perception comes from the fact we spend a lot of time inside dungeons and that the reflex/puzzle-like sections of dungeons and side quests are often time-consuming.

You're definitely on to something with this one, and I'm well aware of this (as far as I can tell, slight) perceptional skew. But as I said I've done virtually all the side quests (just leaving out the dungeon challenges really and like 3 other miscellaneous ones I was already way over leveled for when I discovered them) and the majority of them objectively lead to more puzzles/puzzle platforming. Idk what else to say about it as I'm speaking about a matter of fact.

Ah well I like the game regardless and plan to complete it over a long period of time playing a few times a month. It's pretty cool that I'm only at the halfway point given how much time I've already put into it. Not sure how many more full-length puzzle dungeons I can bear though...
Originally posted by tsjanith:
Originally posted by unnecesaurus 🌈:

Maybe your perception comes from the fact we spend a lot of time inside dungeons and that the reflex/puzzle-like sections of dungeons and side quests are often time-consuming.

You're definitely on to something with this one, and I'm well aware of this (as far as I can tell, slight) perceptional skew. But as I said I've done virtually all the side quests (just leaving out the dungeon challenges really and like 3 other miscellaneous ones I was already way over leveled for when I discovered them) and the majority of them objectively lead to more puzzles/puzzle platforming. Idk what else to say about it as I'm speaking about a matter of fact.

Ah well I like the game regardless and plan to complete it over a long period of time playing a few times a month. It's pretty cool that I'm only at the halfway point given how much time I've already put into it. Not sure how many more full-length puzzle dungeons I can bear though...
Well, if anything, you'll unlock even more quests on early areas as you progress. Some new, some continuing their chains. Plenty of them will involve combat.

Also, as pointed out by others, if you want to 100% the game you're gonna have to fight a lot. CrossWorlds' endgame (outside of the arena), for example, revolves entirely around combat.
I don't classify the platforming sections as "puzzles" so they never felt frustrating or redundant. Either way this whole thing is subjective and probably not worth arguing over.

Originally posted by tsjanith:
...those Ys games that are absurdly unbalanced messes with extremely basic combat mechanics?

This I can't ignore. Ys is dope.
Last edited by EdgarAllenSwole; Sep 9 @ 10:27pm
tsjanith Sep 10 @ 6:49am 
Originally posted by EdgarAllenSwole:
Either way this whole thing is subjective and probably not worth arguing over.
Who's arguing?



Originally posted by EdgarAllenSwole:

This I can't ignore. Ys is dope.
To each their own
Last edited by tsjanith; Sep 10 @ 6:50am
The combat allow to take your frustration away. Some puzzles are just infuriating even of you are good at it. And that is a zelda solrus veteran talking here laters puzzles can get hard, and even an early one far'jo temple.... I swear I was force to readjust the timing bar in permanence. (Even tho I started this game when it was in Alpha, and I din't get acess to that) +Combat ad to the game lifespand look at the arena.... It make the leveling up more often it force you plan and think....Getting this martial art to defeat this boss become a goal initself !
@R+5 Sep 13 @ 11:10am 
your question sounds like this:
"why making something well done when you can make it mediocre?"

In the entertainment and videogame industry, the people who think like that dont care about players or the audience, only to exploit them and offer every time lower quality products and demanding a lot of money.

This game is well known because of its quality, and lack of "fluff", and it has been growing non-stop thanks to that.

Also, if they spend a lot of time making a good combat system and didnt took complete advantage from it, its probably because they were unsure of how the final product will be but wanted to make it solid enough for any extra game modes and missing features they were unable to spend time in the first stages of development.
Last edited by @R+5; Sep 13 @ 11:11am
tsjanith Sep 13 @ 8:09pm 
Originally posted by @R+5:
your question sounds like this:
"why making something well done when you can make it mediocre?"


Excuse me sir, but you're a horrifyingly stupid person if that's how "it sounds" to you. I really hope English is not your first language because otherwise you are utterly doomed
Originally posted by tsjanith:
Who's arguing?
It's almost like these "why isn't X good?" threads have a clear pattern to them.
Last edited by EdgarAllenSwole; Sep 13 @ 10:42pm
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