Why is healing locked to Mage?

[Tusk- Mann of Peace]

I was trying out some magic classes just to see how I would like them. Let me just say that Magick Archer is really fun. Anyway, I was playing multiple different spellcasting classes the past few days to test the waters, and I've noticed one thing in particular. Anodyne (I think that's the name of it) seems to be exclusively locked to Mage. You would think one of the most vital spells, the one that lets you heal people, wouldn't be locked to one class. And it isn't even on Sorceror, which is a direct upgrade vocation, like how Warrior is a straight upgrade from Fighter, and Ranger is a straight upgrade from Strider. It makes sense for a hybrid upgrade like Magick Archer not able to heal, but I would at least think that Sorceror would get a heal of sorts. I may have a lot of hours in this game but I'm still learning things, but I assume that Sorceror has higher base stats than Mage. Why would you have to sacrifice base stats and spell options just to have a heal?

!!EDIT!! I mean "upgrade" in concept, like how you start as a fighter, and can either get a direct upgrade into a warrior, or a hybrid upgrade into fighter mixed with strider, or fighter mixed with mage. I don't mean in terms of usefulness. It's like you can stick with your sword and shield the whole time, or get a bigger shield with magic on the side, or take a bow along with the sword, or just improve the sword itself and ditch the shield. Fighter and Warrior icons are pure red, while Mystic Knight is red and blue, since it's a mix of Mage and Fighter. I know all classes are useful in their own ways, like how only Strider has that move where they throw wires out and knock down enemies, but Ranger can't.

[Halcyform]

Mage heal in my opinion is obsolete. You have what amounts to temporary damage and permanent damage.

Temporary damage is something that mage heal will take care of. Take too much damage and it becomes permanent - meaning your maximum health is reduced. You'll see temporary damage as your yellow bar being replaced with a white bar which can be replenished with mage heal. If your reduced health has no white, then mage heal can't fix it - you'll have to take herbal curatives (or rest at an inn).

The herbal curatives are far more effective than mage heals. In hectic situations, you'll be a smudge on the concrete before your heal can go off. Just become familiar with actual curative consumables and you don't need spell heal.

You can farm these herbs in various places. Don't need to buy them. Several patches exist throughout game world and can also gather them in BBI.

In short: mage heal sucks. Too damn slow. It's nice to have a well trained mage pawn that can keep your other pawns alive, but the mage will often get swatted while he's trying to cast it.

[Karathrax]

https://youtu.be/Wi0fknlcX8A

[zadymek]

Originally posted by Tuskor:

You would think one of the most vital spells, the one that lets you heal people, wouldn't be locked to one class. And it isn't even on Sorceror, which is a direct upgrade vocation, like how Warrior is a straight upgrade from Fighter, and Ranger is a straight upgrade from Strider.

1. The spell isn't all that usefull, and you can see why since especially at the beginning you'll notice how it heals "while white healthbar" only. In general the spell is VERY useful when taking Magick or debiliattion types of damage mostly as this kind of damage makes predominantly "white healthbar". Taking physical damage often doesn't leave much whiteness and can be cured by curatives/sleep/spring/Riftstone only.
2. Don't regard advanced Vocations as "upgrades" as you may get dissapointed. Mage-Sorcerer is such transition when one get's surprised by the lack of Anodyne. No, you change Vocatrions. Some may seem similar, some may feel superior but they are not upgrades. And also most of them develop their uniqe gameplay style so, one does see, in action, how they are different.
3. Also Mage and Warrior suck ;)

[Vinnolo]

there are no straight upgrades in this game, maybe the ranger, but thats it, every vocation is different in its own way

[zadymek]

Originally posted by Kill4rz:

there are no straight upgrades in this game, maybe the ranger

Yeah
...like upgrading a truck mounted, rapid fire MG to train mounted howitzer ;)

[Vinnolo]

Originally posted by zadymek:

Originally posted by Kill4rz:

there are no straight upgrades in this game, maybe the ranger

Yeah
...like upgrading a truck mounted, rapid fire MG to train mounted howitzer ;)

a bit flawed there, since the truck can go almost anywhere and the train cant get off the tracks, but i get what you tried to say

[hanachirusato]

If Sorcerer could heal, no one in their sane mind would ever need a Mage. Giving Sorcerer healing abilities means to eliminate the whole Mage class. You barely want to get everything packed in one class, you want to be able to have devastating spells and healing abilities at the same time. No, you will not have it as it's not a casual press-X-to-win game.
Mage is barely a supporting class, to heal and to buff, it's the best option for a pawn; sorcerer, on the contrary, is the best option for a player as only the player can cast sorcerer's spells effectively.

[zadymek]

Originally posted by Kill4rz:

Originally posted by zadymek:

Yeah
...like upgrading a truck mounted, rapid fire MG to train mounted howitzer ;)

a bit flawed there, since the truck can go almost anywhere and the train cant get off the tracks, but i get what you tried to say

Well
I meant both range, damage and mobility differences, so...

[hanachirusato]

Originally posted by Halcyform:

Mage heal in my opinion is obsolete. You have what amounts to temporary damage and permanent damage.

Let me guess. A typical comment from someone who's never heard of Mettle and Grand Anodyne.
'Mages are useless, I will bring along 20 kg of herbs instead, it's absolutely practical.'

[zadymek]

Originally posted by hanachirusato:

Originally posted by Halcyform:

Mage heal in my opinion is obsolete. You have what amounts to temporary damage and permanent damage.

Let me guess. A typical comment from someone who's never heard of Mettle and Grand Anodyne.
'Mages are useless, I will bring along 20 kg of herbs instead, it's absolutely practical.'

1. End-game, DLC and pretty random Secret Augment is hardly a justification for a skill that was introduced in vanilla. And since Sinew (exactly +20kg to Encumbrance limit) and Encumbrance bous graments are much easier to obtain it sounds like a joke.
2. If one is so bad at this game that needs so much curatives then even Anodyne won't help ;)
Also: curatives basically grow on trees so, no need to drag all this around.

[Tusk- Mann of Peace]

Originally posted by zadymek:

Originally posted by Tuskor:

You would think one of the most vital spells, the one that lets you heal people, wouldn't be locked to one class. And it isn't even on Sorceror, which is a direct upgrade vocation, like how Warrior is a straight upgrade from Fighter, and Ranger is a straight upgrade from Strider.

1. The spell isn't all that usefull, and you can see why since especially at the beginning you'll notice how it heals "while white healthbar" only. In general the spell is VERY useful when taking Magick or debiliattion types of damage mostly as this kind of damage makes predominantly "white healthbar". Taking physical damage often doesn't leave much whiteness and can be cured by curatives/sleep/spring/Riftstone only.
2. Don't regard advanced Vocations as "upgrades" as you may get dissapointed. Mage-Sorcerer is such transition when one get's surprised by the lack of Anodyne. No, you change Vocatrions. Some may seem similar, some may feel superior but they are not upgrades. And also most of them develop their uniqe gameplay style so, one does see, in action, how they are different.
3. Also Mage and Warrior suck ;)

Well I mean "upgrade" in the way that the color of the vocation icon. Mage is a pure upgrade into Sorceror, and a hybrid upgrade into Magick Archer and Mystic Knight because it's a mixed class. I don't mean upgrade as in the same but better, I mean in terms of concept, Staff upgrades purely into Archstaff, and hybrid upgrades into Staff, Sword/Mace, and Magick Shield, or Staff, Dagger, and Magick Bow.

[zadymek]

Originally posted by Tuskor:

Well I mean "upgrade" in the way that the color of the vocation icon. Mage is a pure upgrade into Sorceror, and a hybrid upgrade into Magick Archer and Mystic Knight because it's a mixed class. I don't mean upgrade as in the same but better, I mean in terms of concept, Staff upgrades purely into Archstaff, and hybrid upgrades into Staff, Sword/Mace, and Magick Shield, or Staff, Dagger, and Magick Bow.

Well, what I mean is that it doesn't make sense. Sorcerer is all but healer, has just ONE support spell, against pretty narrow range of debilitations, plus enchantments. Mage is all about support spells (mostly crap) and has some basic offensive options ...being mostly crap. IOW Sorcerer is the specialization of Mage just like Ranger is the specialization of Strider.

It's just the vocation change, deal with it ;)

[Tusk- Mann of Peace]

Originally posted by zadymek:

Originally posted by Tuskor:

Well I mean "upgrade" in the way that the color of the vocation icon. Mage is a pure upgrade into Sorceror, and a hybrid upgrade into Magick Archer and Mystic Knight because it's a mixed class. I don't mean upgrade as in the same but better, I mean in terms of concept, Staff upgrades purely into Archstaff, and hybrid upgrades into Staff, Sword/Mace, and Magick Shield, or Staff, Dagger, and Magick Bow.

Well, what I mean is that it doesn't make sense. Sorcerer is all but healer, has just ONE support spell, against pretty narrow range of debilitations, plus enchantments. Mage is all about support spells (mostly crap) and has some basic offensive options ...being mostly crap. IOW Sorcerer is the specialization of Mage just like Ranger is the specialization of Strider.

It's just the vocation change, deal with it ;)

I mean in terms of fantasy. At the start of an adventure, the mage knows a few weak spells, but by the end, they have massive meteor attacks and party wide heals. The idea of getting stronger by changing your vocation is what I mean by it, like how in Fire Emblem you can upgrade an Archer into a sniper for pure bow usage, or a hybrid class like Bow Knight to also have a sword just in case.
Like, you can focus mostly on using this knife and bow, or you could make the bow better. Alternatively, you can learn to use a sword and shield as well as the bow and knife, or replace the bow with a magic one and get a staff too. Upgrade might not be the best word for it honestly.

[zadymek]

Originally posted by Tuskor:

I mean in terms of fantasy. At the start of an adventure, the mage knows a few weak spells, but by the end, they have massive meteor attacks and party wide heals. The idea of getting stronger by changing your vocation is what I mean by it,

Now, even with "fantasy logic" DDDA does not apply since you can't simply forget healing spells, even in fantasy world ;)
Here, ...you also definitely can't, but spells are tied to weapon used so you ...forget how to wield a weapon... the point is, it's an artificial distinction, with balance in mind not logick, like Fighter forgetting how to use a shield when becoming a Warrior, if you catch me drift.

BTW The system is against official lore: Warrior IS a highly trained Fighter and Sorcerer IS a mageadept at all forms of magick.

Personally I'd like to see even bigger distinction, like Mage being able to actually wield a staff, like a martial artist and cast any debils from distance, while Sorcerer should bet all on Magick.
Well, man can dream.

Originally posted by Tuskor:

like how in Fire Emblem you can upgrade an Archer into a sniper for pure bow usage, or a hybrid class like Bow Knight to also have a sword just in case.
Like, you can focus mostly on using this knife and bow, or you could make the bow better. Alternatively, you can learn to use a sword and shield as well as the bow and knife, or replace the bow with a magic one and get a staff too. Upgrade might not be the best word for it honestly.

Actually the above matches pretty well to DDDA Vocation system. You have knife and bow wielding Strider, Ranger specializing in sniper longbows and Assassin with expertise in bow, daggers, sword and shield.
But no heals for Sorcerer, not in this realm. Not that it matters...

[Halcyform]

Originally posted by hanachirusato:

Originally posted by Halcyform:

Mage heal in my opinion is obsolete. You have what amounts to temporary damage and permanent damage.

Let me guess. A typical comment from someone who's never heard of Mettle and Grand Anodyne.
'Mages are useless, I will bring along 20 kg of herbs instead, it's absolutely practical.'

Typical elitist (wannabe) comment from someone who wastes spell/augment slots on skills that aren't needed - totally practical.

And, no, don't need tons. Run with minimal and pick up more as you go. Not hard to find - especially in BBI. Durrrr.