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Love Gun Sep 18, 2015 @ 5:27am
[suggestion] city maps, urban contracts and MANY more
Hey devs,
originally I only wanted to mention one little idea by asking this one question below, but I couldn't bear to keep my awesomeness and all these awesome ideas to myself that I wrote down some time ago, now that I'm about to write a thread anyway. So here we go.

(City maps)
Have you ever thought of creating city maps(for big cities only), in the fashion of the world map, to navigate on, allowing for urban contracts and more dynamic, alive feeling cities?
Merchants trading, Guards patroling, Citizens that bustle around on the streets doing their businesses, appearing and disappearing on the map when leaving and entering buildings. Every NPC/ NPC's-belonging-together get its own figurine(Could the ones and all the faces and clothes be used, that are already used for the battle map?). Different districts/locations you can go to to get different kinds of contracts, items, information and entertainment for your brothers, that displays the great wealth and the great poverty that have to exist, for there being so many bandits and so much need for mercenaries. When you enter a location, you get a static picture like we have now for all the non-hostile places of interest.

Urban contracts(though most of them are doable without a citymap):
  • As you are already able to fight with your fists, but it is rarely to never used in my experience; why not make some contracts for it?
    One of your mercs has to beat the local market champion in a one-on-one fist fight to win the prize.(No weapons and armors allowed) Or he has to lose on purpose, but it mustn't look like it, to fleece the gamblers, that bet on the fights.
  • Fists-/blunt-weapons allowed only as security for x days for a brothel/tavern/store to protect from drunk/rude guests or blackmailers; as a debt collector going form debtor to debtor or defeating some revolt. There then is a chance an event appears, that needs you to fight. These engagements give no loot.
    Or doing the job of a door-/gatekeeper, like some textbased "Papers, Please"-mini-game
  • Patrolling the town as limited-time-guards.(Better equipment could make fights/low-grade fights occure less likely)
  • Smuggle something. You have to avoid guards, while delivering ware.(inconspicuous dress(low-armor gear) could decrease the guards suspicison, by decraseing their vision radius)
  • Drive beggars out of town. You need to make as many beggars flee from the battle as possible.
  • One or multiple battle brother champions a noble in a trial by combat.

It might be refreshing, to have an event, where two of your mercs argue something and end up fighting each other in a fist fight, that is shown as an automated battle.

Text bubbles
Let enemies, just like your battle brothers, talk from time to time or in certain situations on the battlemap to emphasize their personalities or to introduce plot twists on contracts.

An example, that connects both:
Bandit:"I swear t-t-t-to you,I-I-I-I I'm the wrong guy. You you you are surely looking for B-B-B-Bloody Robin, the Bandit Leader of the camp n-n-n-next door. I'm Robin Ho-Ho-Ho-..."
Gunnar lifts his heavy axe for a horizontal blow.
Asbjorn the joking juggler merrily shouts:"Huuuiii!", as the severed head is sent flying, to land several feet off the now liveless body of its once stuttering owner.
You toss the head to the feet of your contractee, who jumps disgusted some feet away. Hesitant he steps closer again, to confirm you got the right guy, stonily, slightly nodding: "That's the wrong guy...again."

...I just found out, text bubbles have been suggested before and neglected, at least for your own mercs due to the amount of work, low priority and that the lines would get repetitive pretty quickly. I leave it as it is though, cause I think my example is too good to be deleted.
Last edited by Love Gun; Nov 27, 2015 @ 6:48am
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Showing 1-15 of 27 comments
Love Gun Oct 4, 2015 @ 2:36am 
*cough*
Love Gun Nov 24, 2015 @ 3:17am 
Since the following ideas originated form the idea of text bubbles and then kept coming, I attach this post to this thread; though some of them are just further explanations of ideas already mentioned elsewhere, they do belong together to form a larger picture of a great additon to the game.

An in-battle-event-system allows for events and dialogues between the player and enemies, that are willing and able to reason, whether it be to

  • negotiate the terms of surrender(can fail, making the battle continue),
    -Lesser kills/XP; lesser loot, but eventually more desireable one (armors); no further risk, to lose your mercs; be given a merc/camp follower(morale/resolve malus for recruiting former opponents); gain in relation with the faction; gain in renown as a honorable merc
    -If you surrender, you may have to spare a share of your supplies/weaponry/gold(maybe even mercs or camp followers, if you have not enough of the former) but you will survive.
  • interrogate the last survivor of a scout party to get intel,
    -about the location of their hideout, count of their supplies, troops and theirs equipment
    -or other things, he might „know“ to save his hide, if you let him
  • combatants defecting to the enemy,
    -and then you maybe have to decide afterwards what will happen to them, if they defect to you, or to your mercs, that defected and now surrender
  • or the morphing of enemies mid battle(without the addition of transitional visuals, just before and after),
    -Werewolves/werebears(why are those not ingame yet?^^) become human at dawn or turn into monsters at dusk, thus becoming a lesser or greater threat
    -Vampires turn into ashes when they face sunlight
    -Trolls turn into stone at the first glimpse of light
  • and a side getting reinforcements,
    -by having sent for them or
    -another party comes by by chance
    that may help you versus a common foe, but rips you off afterwards, if you have not enough resources left, to defy them
  • or simply just add a little atmosphere.

What brings me to the next point, that would be a necessity for the last two points to work:
Make world-map-time pass mid battle.(e.g. 2 rounds of a battle = 1 hour world-map-time)

The option to send for help would not only allow to turn fights, that might be lost elseway, but make those unimportant derserters of the enemy pose a real threat now.
If you fight close to the enemy's hideout or another enemy party, a figurine that makes it off the battle map could just as well be deserting as heading back and get some backup; you cannot know.
To stop such runaways the player could be able to send out a fast and agile scout party(consisting of maybe 2-4 reserve mercs) that can travel only so far away off the main force, because they cannot take much if any supplies with them. When you send out scouts to ask for help, make sure they are your most loyal mercs with high morale or they may desert themselves.
For that I suggest the implementation of simultaneous battles/journey and battle, making the player to play both rounds of both battles, before he can play the next round of battle 1. The scouting party is only able to travel a certain distance on the world map in one turn of a battle, just as only a certain amount of time is passing on the world map until auto-pause sets in and the next turn has to be played.

The aforementioned ideas, namely negotiating and interrogating such as the following could need your leader to educate himself with the help of books, that can be found or purchased(or camp followers could be introduced extra for that matters(negotiator, interrogator, sapper)):

battle-map-forming
Lets you create a location named ambush or prepared battleground or camp(if you set camp and have prepared for an attack), its battlemap you altered to your liking, on the worldmap.
Changes to the terrain you order (in a map editor) cost tools & supplies, mercs to work and time to execute, so it is not always feasible. Different alterations need different amounts of resources. The more of these resources you are able and willing to invest, the faster and the more you can alter the terrain.
Your party becomes immobile and its vision radius is greatly reduced, cause all your men are focused on finishing the work, unless you spare some to designate them to a scouting party to make sure you will not get surprised, which is able to scout in a certain radius around your main party.
The work exhausts the mercs giving them a fatigue penalty, increasing with the working time, for a coming battle, if you have no time to rest afterwards.

battle-map-forming options:

  • move boulders
  • cut down trees
    -to block several tiles
    -move trunk (and stump)
  • create shrubberies(to hide in)
  • heighten/lower the terrain
    -being one level lower as the enemy(quasi in a trench) could make the spearwall more effective
  • set/build traps(invisible in battles, if set pre-battle, because one had time, to conceal them. So you better remember where they are placed.)
    -pitfall
    a 2 level deep concealed hole(unescapable without a friend, who is able to reason, to help you out)
    can be improved with spikes to inflict bleeding damage
    -steel trap
    makes the victim immobile for 1-2 rounds and inflicts bleeding damage
    -caltrops
    increase the AP necessary to cross the tile by 1-2 (not for undead)

I imagine steel traps and caltrops can be set mid battle too. Same goes for cutting down a tree, if the merc has a 2h-axe, taking 2-3 turns; it could fall to the opposite side of the logger, so the position of him could matter.
If you have finished your ambush location, you then can crew it, opening a deployment screen, where you can give each merc his envisaged position for maximum advantage.
If you have set your ambush location on a road sooner or later a party or caravan will certainly stumble into it. For any other situation you send out your good ol' scout party, to lure the enemies into your setup.

And last but not least, as already broached above, your leader could educate himself(or camp followers can take that part), not only to make more features available, but also to make features easier to execute like it is done, again, in „Papers, Please“.
I am thinking especially about retreating, that has to be done moving merc by merc. After reading this book your leader could be able to give an order to retreat, make every merc retreat, who is not engaged in melee.

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small update(26th Nov 2015):

Reading in the forums I have gotten an idea of how fire arrows, torches and fire(tiles) could work as a part of battles adding another tactical element.

torches (fatigue, initiative and AP cost apply)
would be put in the shield or the accessory slot.
Having a torch equipped in the off-hand at night time, rises the ranged defense malus to 75% and also reduces the vision range by one.
It enables the bearer to execute two more actions. Attack with the torch, which deals no damage, but triggers a morale check on hit and furthermore blinds the enemy on hit to the head for 2-3 turns lowering all its melee attack and defense skills by 25% and ranged ones by 50%.
The second action is usable once per torch, consumes the torch and sets a burnable tile/object on fire(can't miss), creating a fire tile on that spot.

fire arrows
Is the torch equipped as an accessoire, it rises the ranged defense malus of the night time to 75%, and in combination with specially prepared arrows as ammo, it gives access to an action, that enables its bearer to shoot fire arrows, allowing to target objects/certain tiles to set them on fire.

ignitable objects/tiles
get a kind of health bar. The health depends on how hard an object/tile is to set on fire. The higher the health, the harder it is to ignite the object/tile. Each fire arrow, that hits its target drains 1HP whereas a torch removes all HP. Once the health bar is depleted, the tile(with the object on it) becomes a fire tile the following turn.
For now ignitable objects and their HP could be shrubbery/bushes(2HP), stump/fallen tree(3HP), gas-emissive-swamp-tile/tree(5HP)

fire tiles
are impassable tiles for the duration they are burning. The line of sight of the former obstacles still apply. Objects/tiles are burning as many turns as they had HP. Every already burning tile/object adjacent to a flammable tile/object removes 1 HP per turn of the flammable tile/object.
So e.g. a stump with 3 HP could be set afire the next turn by shooting 2 fire arrows at it and having a fire tile next to it.
If an entity is still located on a tile, that got ignited, it will be damaged, the usual morale-check and a resolve-check will be triggered. Passing the resolve-check will make the figurine jump to the side of his allies and failing towards his enemies.
At night(if fog gets implemented to battle maps, then fog may also be affected) standing next to an inflamed tile reduces the vision range to 2 and adding a 50% ranged defense malus. Standing 2 tiles away halves the maluses. 3 tiles away gives no maluses.
After the fire tiles have burned out, the obstacle gets destroyed and the tile will get passable.

Oil jar
Another placable trap could be an oil jar(1HP), whose content is squirted to all adjacent tiles turning them into fire tiles, when it is hit by a fire arrow or torch.
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another small update(29th Nov 2015):

Some more ideas for additions to the battle map.

water tiles
are intended to be passable obstacle tiles, giving a bonus to ranged defense and could occur when battles take place near rivers, seas, at fords or as part of the swamp lands.
They are always set one level below surrounding tiles. Standing on/crossing a water tile costs X+Y fatigue per turn.
(X = the constant value for crossing water tiles; Y = a percentage of the fatigue penalties of all the equipment worn, but dogs. The value should be selected so, that, for example, a unit wearing full plate, a sword and a heater shield drowns immediately no matter what, but one in chainmail(if one in chainmail is still able to swim) is barely able to swim 2 or 3 turns.)
Thus making it possible to drown, as soon as the fatigue meter is filled and the fatigue drain exceeds the recovery rate.
Drowned units' equipment would be lost, unless you recover it after a battle, which would cost extra time(a mechanic, that I already suggested and explained more detailed in post #5 of the thread found at: http://steamcommunity.com/app/365360/discussions/0/541907867790673862/ )
The billhook's ability could be used, to pull out friend or foe out of the water from a two tile distance.

Depending on the breadth of rivers, that may cut a battle map in two, originally crossable by a wooden bridge, that was burned down in the first turns of a fight, could still be crossed by cutting down a tree, thus creating a makeshift bridge for units that cannot swim or best shoud not try.

ice covered water tiles
only occur when battles take place near rivers, seas, at fords or as part of the swamp lands in the cold north.
These tiles again have a kind of a durability bar(that could differ from tile to tile), that is reduced each turn for the unit's weight value occupying that tile.
(weight = max fatigue + all fatigue penalties of all the equipment)
Once the durability bar is depleted, the ice breaks, turning it into a water tile and any unit on it falls into the water.
You are unable to leave a water tile, that is completely surrounded by ice covered water tiles, on your own.
Melee weapons could be able to damage the ice layer of the tiles, setting up some kind of trap for approaching enemies. The damage dealt could differ from weapon to weapon, with axes and the war hammer being the most effective.

I imagine locations, where complete battles are taking place on frozen rivers or seas.


And some ideas for further traits:

swimmer/non-swimmer
(according to whether swimming skills were common or not)
Decreases/Increases to the fatigue drain for being on water tiles.

afraid of the dark
-10 Resolve at morale checks at night-time; abrogated by bearing a torch.

night-blind
Vision is set to 1 at night-time; abrogated by bearing a torch.

day-blind
Vision is set to 1 at day-time.

opportunist
Is more likely to defect.
Last edited by Love Gun; Feb 2, 2016 @ 11:46am
The Holy Wall of Text. I'm suggesting this to UNESCO!!
Love Gun Nov 25, 2015 @ 12:12am 
For a REAL wall of text have a look at this: http://steamcommunity.com/app/365360/discussions/0/527273452875648952/
Overhype Studios  [developer] Nov 25, 2015 @ 1:41am 
Hey there, thanks a lot for the suggestions! It is really well thought out and pretty deep. Unfortunately, what you describe can well be a complete game on its own. Are resources are spread thin and we are busy with getting all the core elements in place right now.

Urban contracts and maps would surely add to the game but they will just "add". They are not the core of the game. However, i could imagine some contracts that take place in cities but they will probably be based on the event- and dialogue system, not on actual maps. Like the idea about fist-fights you can send your guys to and earn some extra crowns. Well see about that.
Love Gun Nov 25, 2015 @ 8:28am 
Hi, nice to hear of you. It is kind of a pity, that your resources are so limited.

There seems to be a little misunderstanding, since you are only referring to the thread opening post, it sounds like you havent read post #2, the post it is all about now.

I mailed you the ideas of the opening post like two weeks after noone seemed to bother about them after its creation, because I haven't wanted them to get lost for good.
So they have already gotten the attention they deserve.^^
I probably better should have created a new thread for the ideas of post #2, but I decided not to.

So I hope you have read post #2, too.
Last edited by Love Gun; Feb 2, 2016 @ 11:18am
Originally posted by Love Gun:
For a REAL wall of text have a look at this: http://steamcommunity.com/app/365360/discussions/0/527273452875648952/

Ahahaha, best response ever!
+1
Love Gun Nov 26, 2015 @ 11:10am 
I updated post #2 including some more ideas
Love Gun Nov 29, 2015 @ 11:11am 
another update of #2
Love Gun Jan 20, 2016 @ 6:26am 
This one may add a little to the atmosphere:

When a settlement is about to be attacked and while it is raided, there could be a cornet or a bell heard, if the party of the player is close enough, alerting the residents of the imminent threat and calling to arms.
To do so would be the duty of the watchman on a tower (Türmer).


Some ideas for character backgrounds(and traits):


Guard, always has the Watchful trait (+5 initiative).

Türmer, always has the Watchful and Eagle Eyes trait.

Night guard, always has the Watchful and Night Owl trait (no penalties due to night-time).

(edit 26.1.16: Come to think of it, they should solely have a higher chance for these traits than other backgrounds.)

Idea for another contract type( edited on 2.2.16);

whereby the contractee wants you to find and hire one/multiple person(s) of a particular profession(character background) and escort them to him/her, because travel is not safe these days.
The player is given the approximately needed crowns and then has to roam the country visiting villages and cities to find the wanted professionals among the potential mercenaries.
There even could be different terms for completion or bonus goals:
  • make it in a set amount of time(=bonus pay;be slower=deduction/failure)
  • bring as much desired professions as possible with the money you are given(the more you bring the higher the pay)
  • bring „good“ professionals(bonus pay for more positive traits than negative and deduction for the other way round)
  • bring the most fitting at best(=bonus pay)(e.g. entertainment for the noble court, it is stated, that the noble likes jugglers most, but a minstrel or houndmaster(with trained dogs) or brawlers or a wildman would suffice; bring someone, that is skilled in tracking, while a houndmaster and his dogs or a witchhunter would be the best choice, a hunter or poacher or wildman would suffice)
  • bring as many needed as necessary to reach a certain number of an attribute(e.g. people that have 400 fatigue altogether, the less people you bring, the better(less hungry mouth to feed))

A nice additon would be the option to cheat on your contractee, by running away with the crowns. That or not making it back in time could result in another band is sent to chase you down or a bounty on your head.
And the possibility to ask for more money on ones return on top of the reward at the cost of reputation gain(for renegotiating), because the hiring was more expensive than initially thought or at least you claim so.
Last edited by Love Gun; Feb 2, 2016 @ 11:54am
Love Gun Jan 30, 2016 @ 6:54am 
weapon:
shepherd's crook; could be an early game equivalent of the billhook, that the one or other shepherd has as a starting item.
Bomoo Feb 2, 2016 @ 6:05am 
That'd be an awesome opportunity for expansion content for sure.
Love Gun Feb 2, 2016 @ 12:13pm 
Thanks, mate.
Love Gun Feb 4, 2016 @ 11:55am 
Some ideas for serveral units of the Undead:

„Headless Horseman“
(The following actually builds on the post of the link below, but does not necessarily depend on it.
So I think it would be cool, if he would actually ride a horse in battle and he could make use of the skills I described, but he works just as well without it.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/365360/discussions/0/458606877330900993/?tscn=1454000874 )

A new boss unit who is accompanied by wiedergängers.
In my opinion it would fit very well, if he would be/act much like the Hessian in the film „Sleepy Hollow“.
He has no head, thus cannot be critically hit or critical hits do miss.
He leaves his grave at night to roam the surrounding lands in search of his head.
He wields a Great Sword in one hand and a shield, that has an extraordinary duribility, in his off hand.
He naturally has a very high chance, to hit the head and always decapitates the units he kills.
He keeps rising, after being "killed" and for him the battle is only over, if his shield is depleted or if he killed an enemy and „gets a head“ so to speak, making him flee the battlefield, to return to his grave.
He is only really killable, if you fight him at his grave.
(A cool addition would be, if his head is somewhere hidden(are weapons lying on the ground on bush-tiles also hidden?), on the battlefield, has to be picked up(, equipped in the accessory slot) and the merc bearing the head needs to be in the zone of control of him in order that he takes damage)
With every head he brings to his grave the number of the wiedergängers, that accompany him rises until a certain maximum is reached.(Killing foes is already the method of the undead to rise their numbers, isn't it?)


„Juffer“

(source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juffer )
(My apologies to everybody, who is interested, that the references and the excerpts are only in german.)

„Manche Juffern [...], die in den Burgen oder in deren Nähe gesichtet werden und durch ihr Erscheinen häufig den Tod eines Familienmitglieds ankündigen.“
„Solche Wiedergängerinnen galten als gefährlich. Man durfte sie weder ansprechen noch verspotten. Allenfalls durfte der Mensch, der ihnen begegnete, ein Gebet für ihr Seelenheil sprechen, was die Erlösung der Sünderin und das Ende ihres Herumspukens bedeutete.“

For this unit I have got two different Ideas.

Firstly(this is a little bit more based from „Juffern in Sagen und Erscheinungen“):
A unit, that is more like a ghost, that is only encountered at certain locations, but not roaming the lands, that moves(tile by tile, 2 tiles before and 2 tiles after waiting units, different AP costs do not apply) straight from its starting position towards the border of the battlefield, if possible, and then in the opposite direction.
It does not intend to attack, has no zone of control and just wanders the place in the described pattern. If a living unit gets on a tile adjacent to the Juffer, it lowers the morale by one morale state(no morale check), if possible (;because of the fear, that she announces the dead of a family member or in this case member of the band).
(A unit that met a Juffer, can only be affected by this passive skill of the same Juffer again after the Juffer left its zone of control and enters it again.)
The juffer is dispelled, when it is taunted.(In this case it means to say a prayer for her, that is supposed to lay her to rest .)


„Sie hatten ihm durch den wilden Tanz die Lebenskraft entzogen“

Secondly (Juffer based on the „schädigende Wiedergängerin“):
A unit, that has no head, thus cannot be critically hit or critical hits do miss.
She has two special abilites:
  • A hit that aditionally drains fatigue.
  • A passive abillity, that drains 10 fatigue points each turn from all units in her zone of control.


„Stüpp“
(source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stüpp )

„[...]sprang ihnen dann auf den Rücken und ließ sich nicht mehr abschütteln. Meistens wurde er von Schritt zu Schritt schwerer, während der ihn tragende Mensch von Todesangst gepeinigt wurde und schließlich völlig erschöpft zusammenbrach[...]“
„Dies lässt den Schluss zu, dass zumindest die rheinische Variante des Werwolfs ursprünglich als wiederkehrender Toter oder als Träger von Totenseelen gedacht war und nicht primär als ein Mensch, der sich dank zauberischer Fähigkeiten in einen Wolf verwandeln konnte.“

His special ability:
He jumps in the zone of control of an enemy, giving him a debuff, saying, that he rides him, getting the control of the affected unit and „drags him away“ of his allies.(Though an illustration similar to the goblin wolfriders would be better and him jumping onto the target instead of next to him.)
The fatigue cost for movement for the affected unit rises with each tile.
As soon as the victims fatigue bar is filled, its health bar is drained instead.
As long as the riding continues, the victim's fatigue regain is disabled.
Only non-affected units can attack the Stüpp.


„Nachzehrer“
(source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachzehrer )

„[...]Im Gegensatz zum Vampir, der sein Grab verlassen müsse, liege oder sitze der Nachzehrer unter der Erde und sauge den Lebenden[...] die Lebenskraft ab.“

„Der Nachzehrer vollbringe sein unheilvolles Werk, indem er durch den offenen Mund sein Opfer „ruft“ oder durch das offene „böse“ Auge eine telepathische Verbindung mit ihm aufnehme.“

I imagine the Nachzehrer to be a stationary undead enemy lying in his grave underground in the figurative sense.
The player experiences him as a tile occuring on battlefields like cemetaries and tombs most probably.
He can either be encountered beneath a flat tile or a 1-heigt-elevation that hints at a grave mound, though even that it is not a certain indication for one to be present; it could just as likely be a simple mound. But maybe you are fighting on a forgotten burial ground without knowing.
He „calls“ for you.
This call is represented by a 3 or 4-tiles radius around his grave, that reduces the AP cost for living units moving on these tiles by 1 and their fatigue cost by 50% as long as they are moving towards the radius' center.
Resting on the center and as soon as one wants to diverge from the center it is only possible to move one tile per turn, fatigue cost for moving is 50% higher and the unit suffers a health drain of 4 per turn until the radius is left.
Last edited by Love Gun; Mar 3, 2016 @ 2:44pm
Love Gun Mar 1, 2016 @ 11:34am 
alternative contract

A derivative from the direwolf menace contract for early game.
Instead of fighting direwolves you are hired to kill a pack of 8-12 wild dogs(unarmored war dogs), that constantly attack e.g. a goat farm and kill it's animals.
Last edited by Love Gun; Mar 1, 2016 @ 11:35am
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Battle Brothers > Game Suggestions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Sep 18, 2015 @ 5:27am
Posts: 27