Tranq Darts Vs Tranq arrows Still not worth the cost

[OreEnthusiast]

After some quick testing I took 2 common dino's an argent and a spino and used them for testing the buffs to the tranq darts and the numbers say that it's not worth using them for the cost. Keep in mind these numbers are without saddles on and using simple primitive tech weapons


Argent: On Hit Tranq Arrows did 400 torpor and went up to 600, Tranq Darts did 600 on hit torpor and then went up to 800.

Spino: On hit tranq arrows did 60 torpor and went up to 105, Tranq Darts did 100 on hit torpor damage and went up to 134.

Tranq Arrows only require 1 stone arrow and 1 narcotic to make while tranq darts require 3 simple rifle bullets, 3 metal ingots, and 3 narcotics to make 1 dart for not much gain, in the long run it would take less time to simply make more tranq arrows than it would take to make the required amount of tranq darts to bring down your animal.

Atm I'd suggest only using tranq darts for PvP purposed only as that's what they are actually extremely effective for.

As for possible balance changes I'd suggest lowering the cost of the tranq darts from 3 simple rifle bullets to 1.

[Zoobo]

Well in singleplayer, I will find it useful because I will be able to carry my taming supplies with me at all times rather than having to go back to base to get a crossbow and tranqs it minimizes my carry weight which is at 200 and will aid in taming creatures in the snow. Fir me it is a matter of ultimately carrying less

[DarthaNyan]

your numbers do not add up with known tranq arrow mechanic of 200% of damage instantly and 250% over 5 sec to a total of 450% of damage as torpor or 4.5 torpor per damage ratio.

Pre-buffed darts dealt 5.5 torpor per damage. They already 1-shot KO players, but if they buffed dart's ratio even higher - they'll be on OP side of things against tamed dinos.

[Tharaqon]

I did some testing myself, and came to the following numbers:
Torpor / dart with 100% gun: 200
torpor / arrow with 100% xbow: 157.5

torpor/damage ratio dart 100% gun: 7.8
torpor/damage ratio arrow 100% xbow: 4.4

so the dart is about 25% more torpor, but has nearly double the
torpor/damage ratio.
including the long range, it's actually useful now after buff..
still too expensive for normal tames. only worth on pesky tames like
high argents, I'm guessing quetz, and for the tames you rather not
want to take too long to knock out, like rex/spino (/bronto/paracera)

[kaylo7]

Początkowo opublikowane przez crimsondrac:

Did you look at how much damage each did per shot? I have not tested it myself, but I have heard that the darts do almost no damage. If that is true, it would be an advantage to use them against dinos that generally die to easily when you do try to tranq them or against dinos like the doed that rolls up into a ball if you do too much damage to it. Perhaps it was never designed to be that much better at knocking something out versus just doing less damage to it.

I know people expected them to be some super awesome knock out dart, but truthfully, would that not be over powered if you could knock out a Rex or a Spino in just a few darts? Then people would be on here complaining about that. Sheesh...you people are never happy.

How would it be unbalancing? At least currently, is there any challenge in knocking something out, or is it just a waiting game based on how many shots it takes? Who actually tames big dinos without exploiting their pathing first? There is no inherent difficulty as everyone just gets the potential tame stuck on something, with zero-to-small risk involved. The only difficulty is not killing it by accident (argents) and making sure it doesn't get eaten while actually taming it. Knocking out dinos isn't difficult by any means - it's the taming effectiveness and kibble requirements that add difficulty.

There are always people stating the high craft and maintenance cost of upper-tier items balance them, despite there being far better alternatives to balance that don't effectively destroy any viability for a large portion of the player base to actually use those items. If you lock effective use of all high-tier items to a single purpose (pvp), you limit use of them to a very small portion of actual gameplay. Even on an active PVP server, how much of your time is actually spent shooting players in the face, and how much spent on EVERYTHING else involved in Ark gameplay?

Recipes should also make sense. Three bullets squeezed into a dart doesn't. Some people point out it doesn't make sense to use a pickaxe worth of metal to make a bullet either, but at least that could be argued as refining the pure quality metal and discarding the excess. An already crafted bullet doesn't follow that same logic.

[Sally]

And dont forget how the darts destroy the rifle. I just saw someone use around 10 darts give or take a few and the rifle was destroy more than half.

I dont even make arrows. Im drowing in them so much I have 3 large storage filled with both stone and tranqs arrows, and I can shoot over 100 before even needing to repair the xbow. Nevermind the fact that if you find a good scorpion and raise the hp you dont even need arrows except for flyers and water dinos.

Honestly, guns are just a huge disapointment in this game. Whats the point of releasing something if you are just gonna do a bad job with them.

[Sally]

Początkowo opublikowane przez crimsondrac:

Did you look at how much damage each did per shot? I have not tested it myself, but I have heard that the darts do almost no damage. If that is true, it would be an advantage to use them against dinos that generally die to easily when you do try to tranq them or against dinos like the doed that rolls up into a ball if you do too much damage to it. Perhaps it was never designed to be that much better at knocking something out versus just doing less damage to it.

I know people expected them to be some super awesome knock out dart, but truthfully, would that not be over powered if you could knock out a Rex or a Spino in just a few darts? Then people would be on here complaining about that. Sheesh...you people are never happy.

So what about damage? Other than Argents being accidentally killed damage doesnt really matter.

And yes, we did want a powerful way of KO a dino. Thats what we asked for, but instead we get a weak, super expensive dart.

[kaylo7]

Początkowo opublikowane przez igottapi4:

And dont forget how the darts destroy the rifle. I just saw someone use around 10 darts give or take a few and the rifle was destroy more than half.

Honestly I dont even make arrows. Im drowing in them so much I have 3 large storage filled with both stone and tranqs arrows, and I can shoot over 100 before even needing to repair the xbow. Nevermind the fact that if you find a good scorpion and raise the hp you dont even need arrows except for flyers and water dinos.

Honestly, guns are just a huge disapointment in this game. Whats the point of releasing something if you are just gonna do a bad job with them.

Only logic train for the extra durability damage to the rifle I can think of, is instead of injecting more tranquilizer we're creating giant super bullets with 4.5x the metal and 3x the gunpower, for a super-powered slug that causes so much damage the dino passes out from blood loss...honestly makes no sense.

[DarthaNyan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez igottapi4:

And dont forget how the darts destroy the rifle. I just saw someone use around 10 darts give or take a few and the rifle was destroy more than half.

I dont even make arrows. Im drowing in them so much I have 3 large storage filled with both stone and tranqs arrows, and I can shoot over 100 before even needing to repair the xbow. Nevermind the fact that if you find a good scorpion and raise the hp you dont even need arrows except for flyers and water dinos.

Honestly, guns are just a huge disapointment in this game. Whats the point of releasing something if you are just gonna do a bad job with them.

Scorpion: 3.0 torpor per damage dealt, 10 sec delay
Arrow: 4.5 torpor per damage, 5 sec delay
Dart: before buff - 5.5 torpor per damage, after ~8.0 torpor per damage. 5 sec delay. Armor piercing effect?

Darts had some use before buff, now they are just good for everything taming/torpor related.

[Sally]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Nizidramaniiyt:

Początkowo opublikowane przez igottapi4:

And dont forget how the darts destroy the rifle. I just saw someone use around 10 darts give or take a few and the rifle was destroy more than half.

I dont even make arrows. Im drowing in them so much I have 3 large storage filled with both stone and tranqs arrows, and I can shoot over 100 before even needing to repair the xbow. Nevermind the fact that if you find a good scorpion and raise the hp you dont even need arrows except for flyers and water dinos.

Honestly, guns are just a huge disapointment in this game. Whats the point of releasing something if you are just gonna do a bad job with them.

Scorpion: 3.0 torpor per damage dealt, 10 sec delay
Arrow: 4.5 torpor per damage, 5 sec delay
Dart: before buff - 5.5 torpor per damage, after ~8.0 torpor per damage. 5 sec delay. Armor piercing effect?

Darts had some use before buff, now they are just good for everything taming/torpor related.

Scorpion: Free mats
Arrow:Few, cheap mats
Darts:Lots, expensive mats

I'll take my 15K hp scorpion and arrows for flyers/swimmers over darts anyday. Its not about the torpor but the cost. They are too expensive to make and to repair the damage they do to the rifle.
If it was about torpor/damage alone then yes they are great. But like I said, they take insane amount of mats to make and just destroys a rifle in very little time.

[JustShivvy]

Tranq darts are good since they have less damage and more torpor, yes it will cost more because of this + you won't have to carry other gun. you have the LN rifle to do both kill and tame.

[OreEnthusiast]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Nizidramaniiyt:

Początkowo opublikowane przez igottapi4:

And dont forget how the darts destroy the rifle. I just saw someone use around 10 darts give or take a few and the rifle was destroy more than half.

I dont even make arrows. Im drowing in them so much I have 3 large storage filled with both stone and tranqs arrows, and I can shoot over 100 before even needing to repair the xbow. Nevermind the fact that if you find a good scorpion and raise the hp you dont even need arrows except for flyers and water dinos.

Honestly, guns are just a huge disapointment in this game. Whats the point of releasing something if you are just gonna do a bad job with them.

Scorpion: 3.0 torpor per damage dealt, 10 sec delay
Arrow: 4.5 torpor per damage, 5 sec delay
Dart: before buff - 5.5 torpor per damage, after ~8.0 torpor per damage. 5 sec delay. Armor piercing effect?

Darts had some use before buff, now they are just good for everything taming/torpor related.

Comparing the costs for each ammo type then arrows are by far better requiring almost no materials at all compared to what it takes to make the darts, I'd much rather make 100+ arrows than spend all of the mats required to make just 50 darts

[[GER]MCNick12]

the dart stays at 25 dmg and only the topor increases with the weapon damage

[DarthaNyan]

A tranquilizer dart inflicts 137.5 torpor to the target with a 100% damage Longneck Rifle. A higher damage rifle increases torpor amount, but does not increase the health damage of the dart; it remains constant at 25 points of damage for every target.

taken from http://ark.gamepedia.com/Tranquilizer_Dart
after the buff it does 200 torpor per bullet (8 torpor per damage). If what is written in Wiki is truth, then darts shot from higher quality rifles will have higher torpor/damage ratio making it very effective.

[Crunchy[Daz]]

Guns are ment for PvP against players, not to fight dinos.

[Sally]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hong Chong:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Nizidramaniiyt:

Scorpion: 3.0 torpor per damage dealt, 10 sec delay
Arrow: 4.5 torpor per damage, 5 sec delay
Dart: before buff - 5.5 torpor per damage, after ~8.0 torpor per damage. 5 sec delay. Armor piercing effect?

Darts had some use before buff, now they are just good for everything taming/torpor related.

Comparing the costs for each ammo type then arrows are by far better requiring almost no materials at all compared to what it takes to make the darts, I'd much rather make 100+ arrows than spend all of the mats required to make just 50 darts

Yeah. 50 dart:1800 gunpowder, 900 metal, 150 narcotic.
Thats just the darts. I didnt even put the amount of mats needed to repair the rifle after use.