Triple lampreys...what to do?

[Kryten]

So I went downwards for the first time, since i heard that that is where the good loot is at :D
I do not have programmable teleports yet, so my plan was to keep going as long as I can...not sure if I find that way again after coming back up.
Finally found a good way down and came down to level 30 after a few hours. Most of the threats there were still quite manageable (my True Kin char is also around lvl30 with some nice guns and a vibroblade) until I encountered some triple lampreys (my new nemesis).
I had the usual twin lampreys before and not much problems with them, but these triple ones I just cannot kill. I have tons of freeze grenades, a freeze ray, pirokinesis filed, my vibroblade has the nulling mod and I even brought a normality gas pump (that I never used before) with me...but still I was not able to kill these.
Normality gas just did not seem to do anything (does it need to penetrate to have effect?) and also hitting them with my nulling vibroblade did not stop them from respawning. Also I was not able to constantly freeze all three of them for as long as I needed ( they seem to be a bit stronger than the twins).
In the end, I decided to run and port back up to my "base" (two chests at Yd^^)


I guess I am doings something wrong (still my first "real" game after learning how everything works), so how do you deal with those? Or are they ultra rare and I am just unlucky?

[Portent of Salamity]

Normality grenades, normality pumps, explosives taking out multiple lampreys at once... timecubes... freeze grenades probably but im not sure whether being frozen prevents cloning.

My go-to way is becoming friendly with fish by farming shrodinger pages from bookbinders since the above are janky and unreliable.

[Overdose]

I also have trouble with the triples. Even with normality grenades mkII and in use of temporal fugue, +4 of me, all lvl 29 with dual relic chain pistols with vibrashots, crysteel battleaxes, sleepgas generation and geomagnetic disks. No chance to put them down.

[glass zebra]

First off: I would not recommend doing underground runs with your first "real" game, especially not with a True Kin without a programmable recoiler, which need extra stuff for power progression. You can also find good loot (and frankly often more special with the historic sites) outside. Underground runs tend to get a lot more "encounter" things and probably a lot more high level random dromads. Underground run have somewhat become a meme I'd say and seem vastly overblown in suggestion.

You seem to be under the impression that killing a lamprey with a nulling weapon has any effect on the cloning, but that is not how it works. The cloning comes from the other ones who are still alive. Those need to be astrally tethered or frozen, not the one you are killing. The one you are killing first does not need to get any cc at all.

Are you using mkI freezing grenades or something like that? They do have 30 cold resistance, but that is not a lot still. 2-3 mkII or probably a single MKIII should be able to keep the last 2 frozen when you throw it shortly before the first one dies. They only have 50 hp and 7AV, so with "nice guns" they should die in ~2 turns each.

Normality gas can not penetrate. They just need to have enough gas density on the tile they are on/enter.

Originally posted by Thog of War:

freeze grenades probably but im not sure whether being frozen prevents cloning.

It does and it is normally the easiest achievable and cheapest way.

[Kryten]

Thanks a bunch, although I did not understand some things that were mentioned here...too new to this still, but nothing Google cannot fix for me :)

I am indeed using mkI freeze grenades and I was not aware of the gas density playing a role here, so getting that in order will surely help. Also I tried killing them in the same turn so far, now that I know how the respawn really works it should be easier.


Thanks again! If I ever run into them again I will be prepared :D

[glass zebra]

MKI freezing grenades against level 30+ enemy with elemental resistances will indeed not do much anymore. You would need a lot of those.

Most higher MK gas grenades lay down a higher density of gas (which also kinda makes their radius of effect bigger). It's something like 40->80->120 density. With MKI normality gas grenades, you can still do something if hit directly, but trining lampreys tend to split up a bit and do not move all that straight either. Freezing is therefore the easiest. That freezing ray should work a lot better than the grenades.

[Kryten]

My first experience with a historical site was....bad...really bad. I had a few levels less than now (around 25 I think) and there were two chrome pyramids battling it out with some conservators. I made the mistake of watching how they killed a conservator, not knowing their potential. Still unsure how I escaped, but I remember my HP being in single digits.
That is the reason I tried to go down instead :)

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by Kryten:

My first experience with a historical site was....bad...really bad. I had a few levels less than now (around 25 I think) and there were two chrome pyramids battling it out with some conservators. I made the mistake of watching how they killed a conservator, not knowing their potential. Still unsure how I escaped, but I remember my HP being in single digits.
That is the reason I tried to go down instead :)

That sounds like a super high tier historic site or special stuff. They normally have the creatures tier of the zone they are in, so you should have not much issue doing the ones around your level (doing the main quest will give you a good feeling how tiers are spread over the map up until ~tier 5 maybe).

[Kryten]

Yeah, I only have two sites discovered through looking at statues ( I learned now to look at everything that is painted or engraved and to use the auto-explore after clearing a tile) and I just went to one of them in the far east...probably should have chosen the other one, which is more in the middle of the map.
Do those tiers increase from west to east, south to north, or how do they work?

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by Kryten:

Yeah, I only have two sites discovered through looking at statues ( I learned now to look at everything that is painted or engraved and to use the auto-explore after clearing a tile) and I just went to one of them in the far east...probably should have chosen the other one, which is more in the middle of the map.
Do those tiers increase from west to east, south to north, or how do they work?

West to east kinda, but it is not an even growth. It's easier to just follow the main quest, since that pretty much draws a line around which the tiers increase. Southwest to halfway west mid, to north of that, to east of that (towards the middle) to south of that, to east of that somewhat equal in growth.

Roughly west to east, but with a short detour north, then south, then north again I think. The wiki has not update the map since the last big content update.

[BoogieMan]

I got stuck in an infinite game halting loop and had to alt F4 the game thanks to these jerks.

Fell through a floor thanks to one of those gelatinous creatures, into a 4x4 room surrounded by a huge amount of solid rock. Killed the jelly, but that wasn't the problem.

I'm just not equipped to kill all 3 of these trining lamprey ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the same turn. I must have killed them all several dozen times during 15 minutes of solid fighting. I couldn't kill them, and they couldn't kill me (high willpower, high regeneration) I can only freeze one at a time and I don't have any big AOE weapons or normality stuff.

I think having to kill all 3 on the same turn is overkill and I can't imagine most builds are really equipped to do that. Maybe within a 3-5 turn period or something would be more reasonable.

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by BoogieMan:

I got stuck in an infinite game halting loop and had to alt F4 the game thanks to these jerks.

Fell through a floor thanks to one of those gelatinous creatures, into a 4x4 room surrounded by a huge amount of solid rock. Killed the jelly, but that wasn't the problem.

I'm just not equipped to kill all 3 of these trining lamprey ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the same turn. I must have killed them all several dozen times during 15 minutes of solid fighting. I couldn't kill them, and they couldn't kill me (high willpower, high regeneration) I can only freeze one at a time and I don't have any big AOE weapons or normality stuff.

I think having to kill all 3 on the same turn is overkill and I can't imagine most builds are really equipped to do that. Maybe within a 3-5 turn period or something would be more reasonable.

Most builds will have freeze grenades at some point or some utility cc weapon, which takes care of them easily. Tinkering I is only 19 int and I'd say at the time you meet those, even low int builds will have gotten to 19 with just the +1 on all stats every 6 levels.

[Pizzarugi]

A powerful enough gas density is also good enough to kill them before they can split. I run temporal fugue plus corrosive gas generation in a lot of my runs, so what I normally do is equip grappling hook guns, activate the gas then temporal fugue and just let my clone army carpet the entire area. It's normally good enough to take them out.

Failing that, pack a freeze grenade III and make sure your gear is modded out to have very high cold resistance so you don't freeze.

A more unique way to deal with them is to just outright remove them as enemies. Clone an army of bookbinders, buy schrodinger pages of unspecified chapters, and use them to raise your reputation with fish. Boom, they're no longer enemies.

[BoogieMan]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

Originally posted by BoogieMan:

I got stuck in an infinite game halting loop and had to alt F4 the game thanks to these jerks.

Fell through a floor thanks to one of those gelatinous creatures, into a 4x4 room surrounded by a huge amount of solid rock. Killed the jelly, but that wasn't the problem.

I'm just not equipped to kill all 3 of these trining lamprey ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the same turn. I must have killed them all several dozen times during 15 minutes of solid fighting. I couldn't kill them, and they couldn't kill me (high willpower, high regeneration) I can only freeze one at a time and I don't have any big AOE weapons or normality stuff.

I think having to kill all 3 on the same turn is overkill and I can't imagine most builds are really equipped to do that. Maybe within a 3-5 turn period or something would be more reasonable.

Most builds will have freeze grenades at some point or some utility cc weapon, which takes care of them easily. Tinkering I is only 19 int and I'd say at the time you meet those, even low int builds will have gotten to 19 with just the +1 on all stats every 6 levels.

I have been finding less grenades lately, and most of them haven't been freeze grenades. I even had freezing hands 11 and all stats over 30. That's my whole point, you have to be specifically equipped to deal with them or it's impossible.

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by BoogieMan:

Originally posted by glass zebra:

Most builds will have freeze grenades at some point or some utility cc weapon, which takes care of them easily. Tinkering I is only 19 int and I'd say at the time you meet those, even low int builds will have gotten to 19 with just the +1 on all stats every 6 levels.

I have been finding less grenades lately, and most of them haven't been freeze grenades. I even had freezing hands 11 and all stats over 30. That's my whole point, you have to be specifically equipped to deal with them or it's impossible.

You can also use a variety of other grenades (normality, gas, explosion etc.), the freeze ray gun, eat a meal that grants cyrokinesis or many different other things I am forgetting right now. You do not have to be _very specifically_ equipped for them. Freezing hands 11 does not work very well against multiple enemies that are a bit spread out (and they have some cold resistance too, so plasma helps a lot) and it sounds a bit like you are expecting a single mutation to be able to handle everything and it is a good thing that that is not the case.

[Cascomp2]

Originally posted by Kryten:

Do those tiers increase from west to east, south to north, or how do they work?

There's a page on the Wiki about it, including a map: https://wiki.cavesofqud.com/wiki/Zone_tier