Reflex Arena

Reflex Arena

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Reflex Arena > General Discussions > Topic Details
Bar Feb 10 @ 9:09am
Reflex working back from popularity failure
Right now, the game is huge failure in terms of player popularity. Speaking from a subjective standpoint; using both my own opinions and those of people I have spoken to I will try and enlighten as to various potential KEY issues that may have hindered the popularity of this game and caused it to be the wasteland that it (currently) is.

Lets also start off by saying that the game engine is great and certainly deserves credit for technical merit.

The game consists of a very limited and an old had selection of game modes:

Free for All
1v1
Team Deathmatch
Race
2v2
Training

(Not a single ounce of effort went into choosing these modes, they were supposedly "safe" choices, but in reality are just "common" and nothing more.)

These game modes can be "mutated" with:

Low Gravity
Unlimited ammo
Big Head
Warmup
Vampire
Arena
Handicap
Instagib
Melee only

Arena FPS games have been around for a long time and so have all of these modes and mutators. This is a pitifully small selection too. Nothing new has been added and Mutators have been around in various forms for a long time; either in the form of direct game modifications or the actual "Mutator" settings from Unreal Tournament.

Now we look at these options and ponder why there is such an extremely limiting selection. The reason that comes to mind is that they developers were so busy trying to please a very small group of loud mouthed duelers on the Discord. But that's just my educated guess. If something didn't please them they would yell and scream and carry on. "CANCER" "AIDS" etc... (And yes, we all know this happened, just read my Steam game review comments for some indication)

None of the game modes are new or exciting. None of these mutators are either! The creativity and thought that went into the options that we are able to choose from is virtually nil.

The game leaves only a play ground for the serious and elitist players that have absolutely ZERO concern for any other aspect of the game. This includes the expansion of the playerbase as a whole. They do NOT care for the prosperity of REFLEX ARENA and their instant condemnation of ANYTHING unrelated to making 1v1 duel combat more and more "elite" clearly shows their blatant lack of concern for any aspect other than their own. There is very little for anyone else who is looking to have some fun.

Various players have commented to me that it's demoralizing to play a game and get smashed constantly by experienced players who will almost always be in control of the game power items. These players are often the only ones they will experience combat with. Myself, I have decent aim, but I lack the focus, drive or interest to be dueling seriously or endlessly. I just want to mess around with my friends playing random game modes.

I can't for the life of me get anyone to come and play. Their complaints were passed on to the developers and discussed in the Discord. Ignored.

New player experience in general could be somewhere along these lines:
Downloads game looking for a fun battle!
Runs game and waits for match making to find game.
Waits a long time.
Finally gets match.
Gets obliterated.
Gets demoralized.
Doesn't come back.

With an almost exclusive focus on 1v1, Reflex Arena has potentially destroyed its own success.

When I suggested in Discord chat some time back that the game needs to take emphasis of the game away from an entire focus on 1v1 duel combat the uproar and meme's were so horrendously overwhelming with insults thrown at me about the games I like and to not "dilute" their game, arms flailing around wildly with nasty flaming yelps of words like "Cancer" and "AIDS".... The place turned into a massive insult factory and I got told by various moderators that saying people have their "blinkers on" was insulting and I can't do that... (Really? It's okay for people to yell Cancer and AIDS at me, but I can't say "blinkers on") It's no wonder the game is at the point it is with that sort of community culture.

Well lets move on beyond that horrific lack of logic and head directly to the point that I was trying to make.

My point I was trying to make was NEVER to dilute or change the 1v1 duel experience... In fact, I clearly stated that I wasn't interested in changing a single facet of the 1v1 duel experience at all.... Entirely leave the 1v1 Ruleset and Physics as a single and lone entity. I mean, other players who didn't duel probably didn't care what happened in 1v1 duel rulesets. But for some reason, they cared immensly about other players wanting something different... I thought that was the idea behind rulesets, was so we can experience the game differently. There is Quake Live VQL and PQL. Both react almost entirely different, yet people interchange between the two on a daily or sometimes hourly basis. It never watered the game down. People changed modes because they got bored of the other ones and for no other reason.

I wanted REFLEX to have features that were expressed suggestions by players who were on the fence about playing the game.

Suggestions:

Turbo mode:
Instaswitch weapons, maybe faster rocket projectiles

Auto-Hop: Optional/Votable (Program the mechanics to work around Step Jumping with an ignore step jump function or velocity inhibitor over-ride and manual input requirement to activate step jump)

(... And let me CLEARLY remind people before insulting me, that this above REQUEST isn't from me specifically. I cope just fine without it, but other players have suggested they want it. This request has been ignored for NO good reason.. It's so simple to put into the game and just don't put it in the DUEL (or "PURE" ruleset if you really need to feel like it means something...) Yet this still wasn't good enough for the "Elitists" ... How ABSOLUTELY absurd.)

Weapon Selection Mutator:
To allow non map based weapon choice

Physics Objects:
Objects with basic programming to make fun sports modes. (I remember having games of tennis with one of the developers using a spawned bot as the ball and it was hilarious)

I could list certain things all day which wouldn't be hard to implement and would ramp up the game viability, quality and FUN... SUBSTANTIALLY!!!

Here's a few ideas I just made up on the spot (Maybe they exist in some form, but it doesn't matter)

New team based game modes:

Team Pinata/Money Ball Mode:
2 Teams brawl it out in an arena. A giant Pinata/Money Ball hangs overhead. Teams pummel into it with everything they have. Points are given when it takes damage and drops extra points for players within close proximity to collect. Build this game mode around ridiculous and fun arenas where everyone is forced to brawl in team based combat. Do you kill the enemy or do you smash as many points out of the ball as possible before your life inevitably expires? Everyone gets a chance to do something. New players can pummel into the ball and hope to get some random kills in the meantime and more experienced players can hold some serious area control. Everyone gets to have some fun!

King of the Hill - Turret Rush Mode:
2 teams start off on opposing sides of the map (Not far from the center) and must rush to the center of the map where there is a capture point. Teams must fight to hold this point. The holding team will be awarded a Turret spawner nearby for the duration of the game. The opposing team may destroy the turret, but this turret will spawn again for the owning team 1 minute after its destruction. There are various turrets that may be captured one after the other in contention of the capture point. Once all turrets have been captured any subsequent time that a team holds this location will drop their teams counter from 100 to 0. The first team to hold the point long enough to drop their counter will be the winner. This would put a great spin on the KOTH gameplay and allow us to be really creative with our map designs! Potentially making Arena's which have never existed before.

So to take a look at my other experiences and how they relate to my disappointment with REFLEX ARENA:

My friend took me to nQuake for Quake1 and we played some ridiculous and fun modes, there was a midair mode and a mini arena which was an absolute blast. He seemed to be able to modify the rules through commands and we played the game however we wanted.

It was absolutely awesome. It's just a shame that it's so old... But now we have Reflex Arena... And there is absolutely nothing to do?!! How can this be so disappointingly empty? There are so many things that are left out. There is a map editor and a fantastically solid endine with net code, but it's all being wasted on funnelling EVERYTHING into such a limiting aspect. 1v1 never needed to be neglected or changed in order for everyone else who might enjoy the game to have something that WE wanted.

Seriously, 1v1 never EVER needed to be touched in order for there to be some awesomely fun things for everyone else to do. When I suggested new game modes and rulesets for people who didn't like how rigid and slow the game pace felt, I was told that my ideas would dilute the player base and turn the game into WHATEVER they said (I can't remember, but it's not important).... I'll say it again for the people who tried to make such a ridiculous point:

--- You CANT diliute something that doesn't exist !! --- PLEASE use some LOGIC.

I spent one HELL of a lot of time trying to get my Quake friends involved in REFLEX and in the end I gave up doing so... It was horribly demoralizing when every idea you have is shunned as literally being "Cancerous" and "AIDS" and have your skill level criticized because you like something different than they do.

When I made these suggestions, I didn't expect to be insulted as a noob. I'm certainly not a bad player and I do pretty damn well in Quake for someone who's not serious.

I just wanted another way to enjoy a game that just needed that little something more and different for me and my friends to do.

Now I'm just left alone, randomly mapping here and there out of creativity and hope that someone might be interested in doing the same with me.

But in reality, there's just nothing for them to do if they did join me... All the insults and hurt that were thrown my way for even suggesting that the game needs something else, something MORE for the player base to potentially thrive... Those insults were there just to hurt me.. Why? I was trying to give my input for a game which I spent countless hours messing around in. This game wasn't just for all you hardcore duelists who think it's okay to shun everybody elses ideas. This game was meant for a community to enjoy. I don't know what the hell happened through the development phase or why the utter crap storm that was Discord was allowed to thrive.

But for _ _ _ sake! Wake up and make this game what it could potentially be!

Not this dull, drab and empty shell of a game where the only thing to do is wander the wastelands.

What is wrong with making new game modes and adding some fun stuff and physics for us to mess around with?? All that is really left is a few tiny pockets of randoms and racers.... :/

We are promoted to be creative with the use of a multiplayer map editor?? How many mappers are going to be pure duelists? How many creative people do we really think just want to duel? Come on, seriously guys... Pull this project from the brink of extinction. Fix the crappy discord culture of insults of Cancer and endless meme's.

You guys can do better than this.

Right now we only have a few modes and mutators. There is a cool asset such as the turret which remains practically unused. It's something simple like said turret which hints at there being some really awesome potential fun in the game if only these assets were taken advantage of.

There's a super awesome map editor... We could make game modes and maps and share them all. Right now we're building things with duct tape or just leaving them hanging as a wish.

I even see a few people making cool looking arenas and portraying their disappointment that their idea will never take hold due to how poorly lacking the customisation in the game modes really is.

Really though... Why give people this multiplayer creative tool when you give us nothing to do with our creations. There's no way in hell we're getting any new players by stagnating the game upon the current concept. There's no reason why the game can't progress beyond 1v1 Duels while leaving it intact.

Make the rest of the game more fully fledged, customisable and fun! Give us the good stuff....

And the Duelers could have their own Design council. Much like it is right now, except this time... Don't let it dictact the pace of the game for everyone else who wants to enjoy REFLEX our way! Because basing the game around such a tiny audience is practically the reason this game never really took off in the first place.

People were interested, people bought the game... But no one plays it because none of us got what we expected.. And that was a place to have some aFPS fun... Not to prove how big our egos are in 1v1 combat.

This game can be salvaged... Take some risks and stop fluffing around with duel and letting it mess the game up for EVERYBODY else!

I'd honestly just DROP the die hard Duelist TOXIC players who spam meme's and yell "CANCER" and "AIDS" that are literally crapping in their own back yard... Because how dare anyone ruin "Their" game.... This game started off with what I thought were HEADSTRONG and PROUD Aussie developers with integrity! But all I ended up seeing was a Discord channel full of stupidity, toxicity, meme's, insults and appeasing to the louder, lesser crowd. They don't care about REFLEX, they only cared bout themselves and THEIR experience and NOW we have almost no one left at all....

REFLEX ARENA does NOT fully represent the developers capabilities. This product, this GAME can be MUCH more than just an EPIC FLOP on the steam charts if only you'd disconnect from your TOXIC Discord Chat and poke your head out to where the real people are.. The ones that care about REFLEX ARENA, the players and GAMING overall.
Last edited by Bar; Feb 10 @ 9:45am
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
PotHat Feb 10 @ 10:12am 
Amen bro, I couldn't have said it better myself. I spent time playing and recommending this to my friends only to keep falling away from it again and again. It had grown stagnant and not into the game that I thought it would be. Currently I regret ever recommending it to anyone or telling them to buy it, it's frankly embarrassing.

They could do so much with this game as you've said, but they have left it hanging.

Add CTF, add KOTH, add all the kinds of fun halo and quake type game modes that you may expect.
Add the ability for us to code in scripts as well so that we as a community can pick up the slack if nobody else will.
The Dev's could do so much with this game, they have built a platform, and nothing really on top of it. It's like coming up with the AR-15 and never getting past inventing the receiver/gearbox.

Dev's, step it up, we all know that you have it in you. I'm one of the few who has felt what the gentleman above has described, but was too silent or didn't care enough to try and say it. But I want to add my voice to these concerns because it will benefit everyone in the long run.

On the other side of the coin, you could just have a tiny group of players for a few more years until the next best thing comes out and your game dies.

It's in your hands, meditate on it and make a smart decision for us all. Thank you.
Last edited by PotHat; Feb 10 @ 10:14am
solarseven Feb 14 @ 10:50am 
+1 Great points!

I suggested to the devs they look at game modes that where successful for other arena shooters and work out something similar. Since these games are mostly dead now I see really no problem in lending some good ideas left and right.

Some game types:
- Capture the Flag
- King of The Hill
- Onslaught (UT2004)
- Titans (UT3)
- Bombing Run (UT2003 / UT2004) Great ball sports game.
- Invasion - Wave survival
- Assault (UT99) Mission type of gameplay.
- Mutant

Just to name a few.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Tournament_2004
Last edited by solarseven; Feb 14 @ 11:04am
Bar Feb 14 @ 11:59am 
Thanks for the replies!

To add to the previous points: Imagine if the developers gave us some tools to simply "program" our own game modes (Something very easy to use of course). These would be things such as physics objects that you can shoot/pickup/throw.... (There could even be the potential of curve ball throws if you do a "circle jump" wind up sort of movement and then throw.)

-------------------------------------------------

There could be links in the map editor between events to create simple sports games.

Players spawn and are locked in place at designated locations in sports arena.

Timer starts. 3, 2, 1, "Play ball"

Ball spawns at centre location.

Players unlock to freemove.

Round starts.

Player Melees ball (using sports melee variant) and it grasps the ball and slows the movement of ball holder.

Player can then "attack" to throw ball.

Attack opponent with melee to knock ball out of their hand.

When ball is thrown through into "point a" or "point b" a point is scored for the scoring team.

Players get teleported back to designated location.

Timer starts. 3, 2, 1, "Play ball"

Ball spawns at centre location.

Players unlock to freemove.

Players brawl and have fun.

* Add timers to the game for Half Time and Full time and an optional viewing of goal replays where people can vote to watch or skip. We could even add our own voice overs if we chose to? (This would add some really nice polish and quality feel to the game)
-------------------------------------------------

People could simply make up some simple rules, create maps and upload it as a "Game Mode". Tag the maps with the game mode.

People could vote for their fave modes, top listed modes could be unofficially listed in the "Top game modes" of REFLEX. This won't take much time away from the developers and they won't have to cop any flak from rowdy players about how these mods are designed/balanced.

If the developers liked the mode enough they could promote it??

Also:

There could be a suggestions form for simple things we need in order to make our game modes work.

The developers can approve or deny them based on viability.

Simple programming rules would mostly be a breeze when you look at how well designed some aspects of the game engine already are.

We just need well explained variables, physics objects etc.. The devs don't need to test the balance of rulesets, that; we do ourselves.

We just need some basics to work from. It's not like we want to create advanced game modes with in depth rulesets and etc... We just wanna create some fun sports games, sports brawlers, King of the Hills with twists and Team Arenas where everyone of all skill levels can get involved.

The issue with a lot of other aFPS games failing wasn't just their marketing and engine... It was their physics and movement.

REFLEX ARENA has GREAT netcode and AWESOME movement mechanics and Really solid feeling weapon mechanics.

Reflex has the base movement mechanics that feel fantastic, even if you had the option to remove air control if you wished (For your game mode) the game would still feel far better than most shooters out there. (Imagine you were playing a sports mode and if you went out of bounds at all you were punished with a loss of air control for 10 seconds LOL)

I just want to see this game go somewhere before a rival company comes and takes the market.

In all honesty, how long can I keep supporting a company that won't support the players that actually want the game to grow and become something. It's so hard to support developers that won't support their eager community... (Discord loud mouthes are NOT the majority of REFLEX ARENA community! That is a FACT)

Please support us and give us some of the things we want. Those players in your Discord aren't the community you want to listen to unless you truly just want this "elitist" only garbage that we've been strung along for this entire time.

Just so people know, I am an avid fan of Air Control and Team Based "Clan Arena" style gameplay. I'm not some random with no experience in shooters that just has "Ideas" to turn "REFLEX" into a sports game.

That's entirely not my aim at all.

I make my own maps....

Here's a duel map I made...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=921023850

Here's some "Drop Zone" maps I made. (If you fall into the pit you teleport to a location that you're susceptible to getting easily middied or IC floated to your death.)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=705600657

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=923158478

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=923174017

I have lots of ideas and fun things to make, but they never get a chance to shine because of how limiting REFLEX ARENA is. Not only that, but how much fun people made of me when I suggested these things.

I became an endless running "meme" and joke all because I have some ideas that went against the grain.

I want to see something new and fun. My friends won't play REFLEX ARENA with me until the suggestions I have made come to be.
Last edited by Bar; Feb 14 @ 12:02pm
Bar Feb 14 @ 12:16pm 
Originally posted by solarseven:
+1 Great points!

I suggested to the devs they look at game modes that where successful for other arena shooters and work out something similar. Since these games are mostly dead now I see really no problem in lending some good ideas left and right.

Some game types:
- Capture the Flag
- King of The Hill
- Onslaught (UT2004)
- Titans (UT3)
- Bombing Run (UT2003 / UT2004) Great ball sports game.
- Invasion - Wave survival
- Assault (UT99) Mission type of gameplay.
- Mutant

Just to name a few.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Tournament_2004


Thanks for the reply :D

Yes, bombing run... I remember it :D My suggestion in the previous post sorta is similar to that.

There's a game mode in "Warframe" called "Lunaro". Which is more of a lacrosse style game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacrosse

Now the reason I say that we need our own variables to work with is because the devs appear to be so deeply buried in their DISCORD community and 1v1 that they can't see what's actually going on outside of it.... We're out here and we want and need things!! We're out here to share and make stuff for everyone to enjoy?!! Just remember that. We're not just here for the very, very small community that resides in small pockets.... We're here for expanding out to the players that have been left behind and the ones that don't even exist yet!

Please DEVs, come and reply/chat on these forums. The ones where Steam players reside... The feedback you get from your own forums will most likely come from a small selection of players who aren't thinking outside the box.

I want to add something to the game! Please help us by giving us some tools to make some noise with!
Last edited by Bar; Feb 14 @ 12:45pm
I like the game a lot and have just gifted it to a friend, a defrag runner. I don't play it much though - its playerbase is non existent. How bout devs do a free weekend or even week to get some new players? Then discount a game for a month or so. If it's one euro I'm gonna buy 10 copies and gift it to my friends. It's gonna work coz people've been talking about arena shooters since Quake Champions made a comeback. Reflex is so much superior to the current Quake and people will notice.
Bar Feb 16 @ 2:04am 
Originally posted by 2drunk2frag:
I like the game a lot and have just gifted it to a friend, a defrag runner. I don't play it much though - its playerbase is non existent. How bout devs do a free weekend or even week to get some new players? Then discount a game for a month or so. If it's one euro I'm gonna buy 10 copies and gift it to my friends. It's gonna work coz people've been talking about arena shooters since Quake Champions made a comeback. Reflex is so much superior to the current Quake and people will notice.

Considering that nearly a third of my friends HAVE Reflex, a Free weekend isn't going to get them to play it with me. They already own it. I can get my friends to play maybe 1 game once in a blue moon, if that.

As per usual, they have an update or an event and the game dies out. It's the same with every single change they make to the game. Any significant changes bring a slight increase in players until they realise that there's nothing fun to do.

CTF is too objective intensive. Doesn't focus on killing to secure the objective. It's all about chasing something. Duel? Chasing something. Another player or Items. People seem to just want to brawl and have fun. Race is still sometimes alive... But the maps are mostly boring in theme and visual design. That's not going to bring many new players at all.

Like I stated in my original post is what needs to be done (IMO).

Also, It's not superior to Quake Live. The LG combat and feel is far superior in Quake Live. Quake Champions is a mess and doesn't compare to REFLEX ARENA. REFLEX ARENA netcode is better than Quake Champions by miles... Quake Live and REFLEX ARENA have comparable netcode... There's something much nicer about Quake Live LG over the IC... It's just more pushy and smooth and the visual feels better and easier to track (again, imo).

We need new things to do and some quality of life changes such as autohop and turbo mode. Lots of people like auto-hop. I am fine either way... but it would certainly save my fingers considering I have wrist problems from injury... It would be really nice to have auto-hop.

The game modes I mentioned would be fantastic.

But how are we supposed to feel when our thoughts and ideas get ignored, while they all congregate together and expel our ideas. It's not a nice feeling.... We get pushed aside.

The game already is an epic flop in terms of player base. Everyone who purchases is usually left disappointed with the player base. We want them to look at the reasons why... Yet all they do is play around with rulesets instead of tackling key issues that stop players from playing. People aren't stopping just because the rulesets aren't perfect.. There's much more involved in this game being lacking.

They won't do anything about it, I can almost guarantee it. I'm really disappointed... :(

So demotivating to map for a dead game.

Damn, I will not be buying Reflex thanks to this.
Bar Feb 24 @ 2:30pm 
Originally posted by KeDeSi:
Damn, I will not be buying Reflex thanks to this.

Unfortunately, this was my experience, but I am not here to deter people from the game. There are good players and there is a decent community hidden in tiny pockets... But it's good luck finding it and also a challenge to get a game going. But there is definitely enjoyment to be had.

For me, I'd play a lot more if there were key elements added/fixed.

The Discord community was fairly awful. The developers didn't partake in the toxicity, but they did allow it to happen. I believe it was due to psychological issues. The toxic community they had were loud and constant... They could definitely make a small development team believe that if they didn't appease these players that their game would die. Too many eggs into 1 basket. And if this basket dropped for whatever reason then there was none left for anyone else.

Now these players themselves have no one to play against and they too have mostly disappeared.

This game still can be great, if they do a FREE (community) update... Giving us other people that aren't elitist duelists something to do.

Worth buying and playing if you have someone to play with frequently and if you want to map together.

I just find it lonely... And any players I can find only want to duel... You can't get enough players for any other modes so that is fruitless.


while Onslaught is a nice idea, i dont think its that easy to implement. i even think its impossible, you would have to plan that in advance. also, the core of the game should be competitive arena fighting like in QL. Having lots of public onslaught players is quite a different thing. ffa for fun is nice, but the target audience is more strict.
Last edited by helltiger.cpm; Mar 3 @ 3:02am
Bar Mar 3 @ 9:14pm 
Originally posted by helltiger.cpm:
while Onslaught is a nice idea, i dont think its that easy to implement. i even think its impossible, you would have to plan that in advance. also, the core of the game should be competitive arena fighting like in QL. Having lots of public onslaught players is quite a different thing. ffa for fun is nice, but the target audience is more strict.

I mentioned other modes in my original thread which are worth looking into.
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