Blaster Primitive Location

[Falconer]

This is an old favorite game of mine. It's biggest problem was it was up against HL and all it's mods (like dystopia). Anyhow I installed from steam... tried to boot got the startup loop... installed the patch and multiplayer/widescreen bits from the pinned post at the top.

However, I remember the game handing out the rifle early... and double checking the old guides they say the blaster primitive is supposed to be in the first archive bin with the alpha Y-amp right after you waste the first 3 puds leaving. The guides also list this as the only location it is (or was) in the game.

Am I missing an area of the platform? (jumped all over those boxes across the bridge looking)
Was it moved in the killer app mod til later in the game?

thx

[LDSO]

It was clearly a mistake in the game. Jet isn't supposed to get the Blaster Primitive that early. So it was removed from the second level for the Killer App mod, and you have to wait until later to get it.

Why was it a mistake? Because in a later level (I won't spoil too much, for the sake of people who still haven't played the game) Jet finds the Blaster in a cutscene and goes: "Huh, what's this?"

If he'd already seen the Blaster before on the second level, why would he be puzzled by it later? Also, what would a Blaster be doing there in an early level, anyway? Where did it come from? How did it get on an ENCOM system that early? None of that would make any sense.

[Falconer]

Thanks for the info, would have been nice if they had it in the change notes for the mod... I searched through that to see if it was part of it.

I'm fine with just the disc. It's easily my primary weapon... captain america style toss and deflect. I barely touched the others in the past. I was more worried that I wouldn't be able to use its mods later when they turned up.

Though I disagree on the clearly a mistake part. I suspect the reason was to put a familiar weapon every FPS'er could identify with early in the game. Lets face it they all have their SMG clones. At the point this decision was made, the cutscene was probably already animated. But that's speculation on both our parts.

[LDSO]

Originally posted by Falconer:

Thanks for the info, would have been nice if they had it in the change notes for the mod... I searched through that to see if it was part of it.

"They" is me. I wrote the documentation, and I'm on the team that created the mod. :)

And that change is mentioned in the readme doc.

Though I disagree on the clearly a mistake part. I suspect the reason was to put a familiar weapon every FPS'er could identify with early in the game. Lets face it they all have their SMG clones. At the point this decision was made, the cutscene was probably already animated. But that's speculation on both our parts.

It didn't make any sense in the context of the story. I don't want to go into specifics - for the sake of people reading who haven't played the game - but there would be no logical explanation for why the Blaster is there, as far as the story goes.

[Lonesquiff]

I just stumbled across this in the second level myself. I wasn't expecting it till way later after the aforementioned cutscene (having played the the original on PC many years ago)

[Lord Villain]

Squiff as far as I know the blaster existed in the original on the second level. I have seen walkthroughs and guides dating from 2004 which specifically mention it.

readrain82 - I've looked through the the readme.html file with the mod manager and I can't find any mention of removing the blaster.

I know your intentions have been good and I know you have made a lot of effort but please understand there are people who only care about fixing bugs and being able to use widescreen resolutions.

They may not want and in some cases may prefer everything aside from stability& res changes to be left in the vanilla form.

Basically your forcing them to take your interpretation of how the game should be played if all they want is 1080p on their screen.

The blaster being there is always something you can ignore, you can't choose in the modified version as you already decided for us.

Is it possible to include an option which leaves the bugfixes, widescreen & MP working but will reverent the SP gameplay to how it is in the vanilla form?

[LDSO]

Originally posted by MarkMark:

readrain82 - I've looked through the the readme.html file with the mod manager and I can't find any mention of removing the blaster.

"Removed the Mesh Primitive from the archive bin on the Combat Training Arena level"

Just as a FYI: In v1.1a of the mod, this is the only change to the Single Player campaign.

Is it possible to include an option which leaves the bugfixes, widescreen & MP working but will reverent the SP gameplay to how it is in the vanilla form?

If you go into the TRON launcher and click the Custom button, then remove the X beside the word "Retail" it will partially disable the mod.

The change you're objecting to will be gone. But many of the other fixes will be lost, cutscenes will be stretched, and Multiplayer will not work with servers using the mod. Also, any games saved while using the mod fully enabled, will no longer work.


I'd genuinely like to know how many people are bothered by this change, so I created another poll. ( Like the one I did in another topic: https://steamcommunity.com/app/327740/discussions/0/535150948614453651/ )

Here's the link to the poll:

https://strawpoll.me/5044043


What I'm about to say heads into spoiler territory for people who haven't finished the game. So don't read if you're not done. l'd like to explain my reasoning again, for making the change.

After defeating the Seeker in the Abandoned Test Grid level, it drops a Mesh Blaster primitive. In a cutscene, Jet picks it up and says: "Hey, what's this?" This is meant to be Jet's introduction to a new weapon.

In terms of the story, why would a Blaster exist on the second level before Jet is introduced to the weapon later? It makes no sense. He's in an ENCOM system, the Blaster belongs to DataWraiths/Seekers sent from fCon. Agents from fCon never even manage to enter any ENCOM systems from the inside during the entire game, because Jet and Alan prevent that from happening.

Can anyone present a logical reason, in story terms, for the Blaster being on the second level? Perhaps, when looking at it this way, you might come to the same conclusion I did. Acquiring it this early spoils the surprise for the introduction of the weapon, conflicting with the purpose of the later cutscene.

[schmatzler]

Originally posted by MarkMark:

Basically your forcing them to take your interpretation of how the game should be played if all they want is 1080p on their screen.

You're interpreting too much into it, really. As redrain pointed out, this is really a flaw in the game design, something the developers missed before shipping it out.

There's a weapon Jet is supposed to find later, as the cutscene clearly indicates. No harm in enforcing the storyline. And it's not like the game gets significantly harder with that, I was still able to beat it in ~9 hours.

I would be pis*ed if he replaced all the lightcycles with Go-Karts, though. Please don't do that.

[Falconer]

I'm surprised anyone necro'ed this... not going to give a modder a hard time. I primarily use the disc for all things anyhow. (it's tron.. if you can't master the disc then what are you doing). Only reason I even brought it up was I didn't see it in the mods changelog, so wasted a bunch of time hunting for it being more of a completionist type gamer.


Anyhow there is an alternate way to explain the cutscene as well....

"Hey, what's this"... when the person knows full well what it is as part of an exclamation (or taunt). The statement from that viewpoint is ambiguous.

[Lord Villain]

The only reason I stuck my nose in is I didn't see anything in the change log and wasted a bunch of time trying to figure out if it was an option or config I screwed up while installing things.

Maybe the obvious solution to cater for both camps is to add an extra choice at the start of a new game. Right now there is one to skip the trainer, skip the combat trainer, and enable gold for all subroutines (effectively a cheat mode).

The cheat mode is a little too extreme for me, but maybe adding a another menu choice which gives you the blaster primitive is the easiest way of doing things?

After all it is probably worth at least one play-through with the blaster and one without.

[LDSO]

Originally posted by Falconer:

I'm surprised anyone necro'ed this...

GreenManGaming is having a sale on TRON 2.0 in the UK. It's dirt cheap at the moment. So we're likely going to see a lot of new faces around here. :)


I'm keeping an eye on the poll(s). I'll let that be a guide, as to how I might proceed with fixes from now on.

[Lord Villain]

gmg was actually where I got my copy from. I first played this a very very long time ago at a friends house. I am still a little pissed off at the mouse about making this game non-cannon.

They did the same with the star-wars movies & games too so I suppose at least tron is in good company!

As your poll, well I suspect there are are a good few people who are either indifferent or see no problem with either way. I wonder how different things would have been if there had been a third choice 'allow both in the mod'.

I still see no real reason why 'give me the blaster now' can't be added in as an option at the start of the game along with the gold cheat.

[MAK777]

Personally I never used anything but the disc and multi-discs, except when your disc is taken off you by the K3RN3L. Then I used the Suffusion subroutine for the Rod.
I think I did that because all the other weapons used way too much energy IMHO. Even the Wraith Claw (which was supposed to give YOU energy from the enemies you attack, but never did) used way too much.

[Falconer]

Never had that issue with the wraith claw... it was a great way to recharge energy. Try tapping repeatedly rather than holding it down (same trick works well with the rod primitive). Bigggest problem was it would drain energy if you held it down while a target was already dead... or you didn't have a target within range. But while a target was in range and being hit it would recharge.

I stuck with disk and cluster disk... repeater disks were problematic waiting for them to return to use for blocks.

Big weapons for me were the Disc, Cluster Disk, LOL, and claw.

[LDSO]

Originally posted by MarkMark:

As your poll, well I suspect there are are a good few people who are either indifferent or see no problem with either way. I wonder how different things would have been if there had been a third choice 'allow both in the mod'.

I only included Yes and No options, because if it really bothers people I want them to pick No. I'd like to know what everyone's thoughts are, in no uncertain terms.

[Strangerhand]

I say: In this case, make the change AND give the player a switch or something to optionally reverse the change to simply leave it as it is.

These votes about individual changes are cool, and a great idea! hehehehehe