Twitch, for example, is fine with nudity and sexual content as long as it required to complete the game. And steam seems to be fine too when it's AAA or nearly AAA title (Saints Row, Witcher and some others).
So why eroge should be an exception? ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ double standards
Because other games don't have long drawn-out narrative explicitly describing all parts of sexual intercourse in a manner intended to sexually arouse the reader (also known as 'porn', which is a very specific kind of depiction of sexual intercourse).
It's not always the case. There's lots of romantic, story driven novels where "narrative explicit describtion all parts of sexual intercourse" takes the last place. And this one, originally, supposed to be one of those.
The difference is the rating and the content's purpose. VNs with eroge rating are ALWAYS rated AO, which Steam will NEVER sell. Rated M games with sexual content do not have this kind of rating however, because the scenes are so short, if they have it, and not worthy of the label.
Ugh. I really hope Valve will come up with something. It's not that hard to add some flag for games that contains adult material after all.
And then mask or completely hide those and their content from store and community pages if viewer is not logged in or under 18, They could also show "Playing an adult game" on profiles when somebody's playing it under the same conditions in order to not even reveal a title to kids.
That's pretty much all they need to do. And everybody will be happy. (I think) But it seems Valve never really liked anime-related stuff, so yeah, unlikely they will care enough to change anything in this regard.
It's pretty much what the others have stated. Anything above an M rating will never sell through Steam. Even though games such as Saints Row, Witcher, Mass Effect, and any other game with romance/sexual content, they generally do well to hide certain things that are generally shown in Eroge.
Boobs, this gets you an M rating. A scene where a girl, who looks as if she's 15, sitting over you and showing her private area, wanting you to lick her? This goes above an M rating.
Even though those areas are already consored, It's the image that's being shown.
I hate the idea of them butchering the "game" just to have it set for ALL AGES and sell on Steam. You would think having an Adult option for the game to show all the sexual content would be enough, as others do have this option to skip those encounters completely.
Sadly that still won't get the rating down an M - Where we have ultra violence being completely acceptable, anything to do with romance, love and sex is FORBIDDEN!
World is ass backwards. I mean, I love my gore and violence as much as the next person, but can't we all just enjoy some damn Eroge?
(Thankfully there is a restoration patch which also fixes many of the horrible translation as well)
Maybe the typicall sjw cancer, while cdprojectred gives a ♥♥♥♥ about what sjw (mostly the corrupt journos) say or try to push into the art designe, other devs feels more forced to change the asset to what sjw want. There are more VN who aren't censored at all on steam.
but anyway, this game is censored and therefore "no buy"
Witcher has always been marketed as a Mature RPG. The sexual content is still done in a way that lands an M Rating.
Gotta realize that, even though these types of VN's are already censored, It's the subject matter that's being shown. Not just boobs, it's everything else.
Depending on how the sexual content is done, it'll get a pass. In this case, and I;ve seen some images, and while I have no issue with it, I could see why the decision was made to get rid of it.
I'd still prefer there to be an Adult option for the VN - Moe wanted this to appeal to 12 year old french girls. Sadly for them that isn't the audience for this, and they are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ for assuming as such.
It's not always the case. There's lots of romantic, story driven novels where "narrative explicit describtion all parts of sexual intercourse" takes the last place. And this one, originally, supposed to be one of those.
Trust me, I know, I've read tons of them. But it doesn't matter if it's only a tiny part of the game - it's in the game, therefore it affects the rating (and thus acceptability of content). It's decided by the 'worst parts' of the game, not what it's like on average.
Ugh. I really hope Valve will come up with something. It's not that hard to add some flag for games that contains adult material after all.
And then mask or completely hide those and their content from store and community pages if viewer is not logged in or under 18, They could also show "Playing an adult game" on profiles when somebody's playing it under the same conditions in order to not even reveal a title to kids.
That's pretty much all they need to do. And everybody will be happy. (I think) But it seems Valve never really liked anime-related stuff, so yeah, unlikely they will care enough to change anything in this regard.
It's not that simple. There's various laws in various countries about how to hide adult material from minors, and as Steam is officially seen as catering to the markets of all those countries, they'd need to verify with each and every one of them to see if they've implemented all the required measures. And if they screw it up even a tiny bit, that's a huge lawsuit waiting to happen.
Then there's the issue of third parties Steam cooperates with. Did you know that a lot of payment processors refuse to work with companies selling porn? MangaGamer, for example, doesn't allow payment via PayPal because PayPal considers MangaGamer a porn company and doesn't allow them to accept payments via PayPal. Even among credit card processors, a lot of them simply don't want to be associated with porn, so MangaGamer uses some ♥♥♥♥♥♥ CC processor that often causes problems with credit cards not being accepted and the like. If Steam were to sell porn (because that's how the world sees eroge even if it's only 1% porn), chances are they'd face the same issues, except they're using a lot more different payment processors and there's probably some other parties that'll be annoying when Steam sells 18+ material.
But even if they manage to get over all of the hurdles, selling porn in and by itself harms your reputation as a company, making it harder to get deals with other companies. Carpe Fulgur's SpaceDrake once wrote a good post on this.[new.spring.me] It's a tad outdated now as Valve has become more accepting of eroge-related games (MangaGamer has games on Steam now, even one that has an 18+ version on their site), but the rest of society isn't quite ready for it yet.
This isn't an issue that's within Valve's power to solve. To allow "porn games" on Steam would require a cultural shift, which is going to take some time. All we can do is wait and be happy that it's already gotten as far as this; eroge companies getting games on Steam was unthinkable just a few years ago.
1) The Witcher may seem somewhat bold by videogame standards, but by visual novel standards, it's still on the completely different level. For me, The Witcher seemed very tame, microscopically suggestive at best. :P 2) Steam had nothing to do with IMHHW censorship. It was done by MoeNovel, long before the Steam release. And they went all-out and axed everything with no rhyme or reason. Just because. 3) There are eroge that are crude porn, but original IMHHW (that is - Kono Oozora ni, Tsubasa wo Hirogete) isn't one of those. It's a story-oriented, slice-of-life title that happens to involve teens falling in love, and that naturally involves sex. Nothing out of the ordinary. But, that's a huge taboo here on the West for some mysterious reason.
But, that's a huge taboo here on the West for some mysterious reason.
It's not really mysterious. All you have to do is look at the influence religion played on society. Take into account that it's almost impossible for social changes to happen overnight, and you have conservative values guiding good moralistic behavior and unlikely to adapt immediately with the times.
In Japan, where religion's influence isn't as pervasive. These standards are relaxed.
Personally, I think it's okay to be strict about it because normal kids less than ten seem to know some shocking stuff these days. It probably means the policy is failing but...eh...
well if all they do to the VN's when they put them out in steam, is to remove the H parts, then if it's popular enough it'll probably attract the attention of people who would make a patch to put those contents back in VN's are a pretty niche market and if censoring brings more support for it, the better as at least it'll help to bring more translated ones to market, though i would feel bad if any previously translated VN's get stolen
AAA titles only shows what happened. Japanese eroges actually describes the scene in details that you can imagine what happened even without the pictures. And then those voice actors just made it even better.
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Twitch, for example, is fine with nudity and sexual content as long as it required to complete the game. And steam seems to be fine too when it's AAA or nearly AAA title (Saints Row, Witcher and some others).
So why eroge should be an exception? ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ double standards
Ugh. I really hope Valve will come up with something. It's not that hard to add some flag for games that contains adult material after all.
And then mask or completely hide those and their content from store and community pages if viewer is not logged in or under 18, They could also show "Playing an adult game" on profiles when somebody's playing it under the same conditions in order to not even reveal a title to kids.
That's pretty much all they need to do. And everybody will be happy. (I think)
But it seems Valve never really liked anime-related stuff, so yeah, unlikely they will care enough to change anything in this regard.
Boobs, this gets you an M rating. A scene where a girl, who looks as if she's 15, sitting over you and showing her private area, wanting you to lick her? This goes above an M rating.
Even though those areas are already consored, It's the image that's being shown.
I hate the idea of them butchering the "game" just to have it set for ALL AGES and sell on Steam. You would think having an Adult option for the game to show all the sexual content would be enough, as others do have this option to skip those encounters completely.
Sadly that still won't get the rating down an M - Where we have ultra violence being completely acceptable, anything to do with romance, love and sex is FORBIDDEN!
World is ass backwards. I mean, I love my gore and violence as much as the next person, but can't we all just enjoy some damn Eroge?
(Thankfully there is a restoration patch which also fixes many of the horrible translation as well)
but anyway, this game is censored and therefore "no buy"
edit.
here you go, not censored
http://store.steampowered.com/app/331470/
from russia, they give a ♥♥♥♥ about sjw too :)
Gotta realize that, even though these types of VN's are already censored, It's the subject matter that's being shown. Not just boobs, it's everything else.
Depending on how the sexual content is done, it'll get a pass. In this case, and I;ve seen some images, and while I have no issue with it, I could see why the decision was made to get rid of it.
I'd still prefer there to be an Adult option for the VN - Moe wanted this to appeal to 12 year old french girls. Sadly for them that isn't the audience for this, and they are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ for assuming as such.
Actually, they were asked by Valve to remove explicit images from it about a day ago. But there's patch available somewhere around
Trust me, I know, I've read tons of them. But it doesn't matter if it's only a tiny part of the game - it's in the game, therefore it affects the rating (and thus acceptability of content). It's decided by the 'worst parts' of the game, not what it's like on average.
It's not that simple. There's various laws in various countries about how to hide adult material from minors, and as Steam is officially seen as catering to the markets of all those countries, they'd need to verify with each and every one of them to see if they've implemented all the required measures. And if they screw it up even a tiny bit, that's a huge lawsuit waiting to happen.
Then there's the issue of third parties Steam cooperates with. Did you know that a lot of payment processors refuse to work with companies selling porn? MangaGamer, for example, doesn't allow payment via PayPal because PayPal considers MangaGamer a porn company and doesn't allow them to accept payments via PayPal. Even among credit card processors, a lot of them simply don't want to be associated with porn, so MangaGamer uses some ♥♥♥♥♥♥ CC processor that often causes problems with credit cards not being accepted and the like. If Steam were to sell porn (because that's how the world sees eroge even if it's only 1% porn), chances are they'd face the same issues, except they're using a lot more different payment processors and there's probably some other parties that'll be annoying when Steam sells 18+ material.
But even if they manage to get over all of the hurdles, selling porn in and by itself harms your reputation as a company, making it harder to get deals with other companies. Carpe Fulgur's SpaceDrake once wrote a good post on this.[new.spring.me] It's a tad outdated now as Valve has become more accepting of eroge-related games (MangaGamer has games on Steam now, even one that has an 18+ version on their site), but the rest of society isn't quite ready for it yet.
This isn't an issue that's within Valve's power to solve. To allow "porn games" on Steam would require a cultural shift, which is going to take some time. All we can do is wait and be happy that it's already gotten as far as this; eroge companies getting games on Steam was unthinkable just a few years ago.
2) Steam had nothing to do with IMHHW censorship. It was done by MoeNovel, long before the Steam release. And they went all-out and axed everything with no rhyme or reason. Just because.
3) There are eroge that are crude porn, but original IMHHW (that is - Kono Oozora ni, Tsubasa wo Hirogete) isn't one of those. It's a story-oriented, slice-of-life title that happens to involve teens falling in love, and that naturally involves sex. Nothing out of the ordinary. But, that's a huge taboo here on the West for some mysterious reason.
It's not really mysterious. All you have to do is look at the influence religion played on society. Take into account that it's almost impossible for social changes to happen overnight, and you have conservative values guiding good moralistic behavior and unlikely to adapt immediately with the times.
In Japan, where religion's influence isn't as pervasive. These standards are relaxed.
Personally, I think it's okay to be strict about it because normal kids less than ten seem to know some shocking stuff these days. It probably means the policy is failing but...eh...
VN's are a pretty niche market and if censoring brings more support for it, the better as at least it'll help to bring more translated ones to market,
though i would feel bad if any previously translated VN's get stolen
Japanese eroges actually describes the scene in details that you can imagine what happened even without the pictures.
And then those voice actors just made it even better.