Gearbox concern thread

[Captain Scarlett]

Note: Updated questions and answers here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/320240/discussions/0/1496741765123851173/

Hi everyone,

Since we made our announcement about increasing the scope of the game, coming to retail, and partnering with Gearbox, we’ve had a large number of people come into the forum to protest against Gearbox specifically. This is making it difficult to talk about the game itself with our community (to improve the game with feedback as we always do), so we are condensing all feedback into this single thread.

From now on, we’ll be closing all Gearbox threads and redirecting people here. This will remain stickied and can be a centralised place to give your feedback. We’re also adding a bunch of questions and answers, as many people voicing their concern aren’t aware of the full story.

In the meantime, please keep it civil and remember that everyone here (including people from Gearbox) is a human being.


First, here is our announcement blog post. It answers everything, but we’ll summarise here for you as well. http://compulsiongames.com/en/news/138/we-are-coming-to-xbox-one-pc-and-ps4-on-april-13-2018!

Why the price increase?

Because we reinvested in the game and in the studio. We decided to expand, to hire some of the best people in the industry, to bring the story to a new level of depth and sophistication. To make We Happy Few the best game it can be. You might be more comfortable paying this price for a Ubisoft game because of the name, but we’ve put a lot of work in our game over the past 3 years and we are proud of it. We have over 30,000 lines of dialogues, our animations are all hand made and the soundtrack is made by very cool bands specifically for the game.

If you’re not sure it’s worth the price, please wait for reviews.

Why the price increase during Early Access?

We have no alternative. As the game is coming to retail, the price must be consistent across all platform. The Early Access is effectively a pre-order at this point, except that you can play the Early Access version of the game.

If we were to close the Early Access then we wouldn’t be able to support our current players.

Why DLC/Season Pass?

We explain this more fully in the blog post, but
DLC is a good way to keep working on a game after it is finished and to use our team efficiently. With that said:

- Our team will not work on DLC until their work on the main game is complete.
- DLC allows us to have some fun and create some wacky♥♥♥♥♥♥that is not canon to the main game, so expect a couple of surprises.

Why Gearbox?

You can see that none of the reasons above are Gearbox specific. Everything here is because of the increase in scope and move to retail.

The folks at Gearbox Publishing are a new team created a year ago. They’ve brought Homeworld, the Bulletstorm remaster, and Fortnite (with Epic) to retail. Randy is not involved day to day with the publishing team.

They’re a good team who care a lot about the game and our team. They’re doing their best. If you guys want to direct your anger and frustration with them, you can do it here. Please keep in mind that we (Compulsion Games) look after this forum, so if you’d prefer to complain to them directly, you’ll need to do that elsewhere.

[Captain Scarlett]

Originally posted by C4pM:

Q3: If GB are taking care of publishing, marketing and promotion, should'nt they have a representative here to deal with steam customers or potential customers? Does seem a bit unfair you have to do all the batting.

I'll answer that one since it's community related.

I don't think people are interested in talking to publishers, they are more interested in talking to the devs making the game. While community management is close to marketing, I've been with our players for 3 years and even if things have been rocky lately, I still hold the community close to my heart and prefer to stay in charge. I know our game and I know our journey, it's just easier to answer questions myself.

[Lil Bro Peep]

Originally posted by C4pM:

3 question for the devs, but 1st:

So I wasn't thrilled when the news came out - on the surface it did look like a bit of a sell-out, but I do think you have had a pretty rough ride with negative reviews and some pretty shocking hate on the forums. I'll reserve my judgement for when the game is released, which is all I assume you ask of us.

Q1: So have you been quite surprised at the negativity leveled at Compulsion? I do remember one of you saying that you expected some fallout. Just seemed like a big risk to take to gamble with all the good will initially created.

Q2: Now that GB are looking over your shoulder, isn't there a chance that as the release date gets closer, there will be calls to "Drop that for now, it'll go into DLC"? The deadline is 100% fixed?

Q3: If GB are taking care of publishing, marketing and promotion, should'nt they have a representative here to deal with steam customers or potential customers? Does seem a bit unfair you have to do all the batting.

Q1: Frankly, yes. The internet's outrage has been far beyond what we expected. Frankly, a lot of people hate Gearbox with a passion that borders on obsession. On reddit etc it's easy to have good discussions to explain, but on Steam there is no community curation - no upvoting/downvoting of discussion. Makes it hard to have a reasonable discussion.

Q2: No, there isn't. That's not how game development works - you don't choose to cut stuff and put it into DLC (maybe one or two studios do but on the whole that just isn't how it works). You can choose to cut stuff because it won't be ready in time. That's normal development. That stuff might go into a free DLC (eg if we don't finish a few encounters that we want to), but otherwise you'll see that the paid DLC content is completely different.

Q3: Yeah, they should. They have a different communication philosophy to us. I'm hoping that changes. It's one of the reasons why this anti-Gearbox hate is so tough for us - we're right here, every day making things better. Why punish us for this?

[Zimbabwe Salt Co.]

Originally posted by Manywhelps:

Q3: Yeah, they should. They have a different communication philosophy to us. I'm hoping that changes. It's one of the reasons why this anti-Gearbox hate is so tough for us - we're right here, every day making things better. Why punish us for this?

Wouldn't just going on the WHF section of the Gearbox forums be a better alternative than here?

[Lil Bro Peep]

Originally posted by SkunkWerks:

Originally posted by Manywhelps:

I understand, and we don't want anyone to feel that way. However, when we are telling people how the industry operates, and why decisions get made, sometimes we have to be blunt. Often, outrage is caused by emotion, not because it's based in fact. That's why we call this unreasonable.

That's a hard discussion to have. Do you prefer safe ignorance or difficult truth?

Well, the fact that you're accusing people who have a feeling of being ignorant is kind of the source of the patronization, no?

"You'd be less angry if only you knew better."

All I'm saying is- given the delicate situation you folks now find yourselves in (and by the way I would be among those who would laud you for how much time you've spent communicating about this, for good or ill)- I would stay FAR away from telling folks what "well-informed" is.

People who hate Gearbox have their reasons- some of them likely not particularly valid. Others might be.

And the brush you're painting them all with in a statement like that is broad.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, for sure. It's why it's such a hard discussion.

The sad truth is that the gaming community is fundamentally misinformed about how the industry actually works. There is a vocal minority of players who love to talk about the industry - and that's great - but when they are wrong, their loudness and their review bombing doesn't make them right. Even commentators like Jim Sterling and Total Biscuit, as much as I like them both, get it wrong a large proportion of the time. That's normal: they are not industry experts. They are external commentators. And sometimes they have great perspectives that help us rethink things. But often they are also just dead wrong.

I am hugely ignorant about other industries. If you ask me why beers cost $10, I would have no idea. But I wouldn't go around criticising bars and downvoting a specific bar for doing it when the whole industry does it. If I really cared, I'd ask about why. And I'd listen. Maybe I'd have a good point to make, and change it - maybe I'd start my own bar and show them how to do it!

But maybe I'd realise also that bar owners just want to make a successful business, and that the factors involved in doing that are quite complicated, and in fact make sense once you get down to it.

[Lil Bro Peep]

Originally posted by Zimbabwe Salt Co. Team 💯:

Originally posted by Manywhelps:

Q3: Yeah, they should. They have a different communication philosophy to us. I'm hoping that changes. It's one of the reasons why this anti-Gearbox hate is so tough for us - we're right here, every day making things better. Why punish us for this?

Wouldn't just going on the WHF section of the Gearbox forums be a better alternative than here?

Like Scarlett said above, we don't want to leave because those of you in the community who actually play the game want to communicate here. The thought has crossed my mind. It, frankly, sucks to talk with people like the two banned people above. The negativity that we have to deal with is persistent and honestly makes our lives miserable.

But we do it because we want to talk to players like you. We want to share what we love about the game, and want to be able to talk to you guys about it. And we want to be fair to newcomers too.

Maybe we'll leave the Steam forums like most other developers have. But I think the community would be worse off without it, so I'd rather not do that unless we have no other choice.

[Soraiah]

Originally posted by Captain Scarlett:

I'll answer that one since it's community related.

I don't think people are interested in talking to publishers, they are more interested in talking to the devs making the game. While community management is close to marketing, I've been with our players for 3 years and even if things have been rocky lately, I still hold the community close to my heart and prefer to stay in charge. I know our game and I know our journey, it's just easier to answer questions myself.

And may I add, that I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one who loves our Naila? :3 I would be incredibly sad if someone would take her place ._.

[SkunkWerks]

Originally posted by Manywhelps:

Originally posted by SkunkWerks:

Well, the fact that you're accusing people who have a feeling of being ignorant is kind of the source of the patronization, no?

"You'd be less angry if only you knew better."

All I'm saying is- given the delicate situation you folks now find yourselves in (and by the way I would be among those who would laud you for how much time you've spent communicating about this, for good or ill)- I would stay FAR away from telling folks what "well-informed" is.

People who hate Gearbox have their reasons- some of them likely not particularly valid. Others might be.

And the brush you're painting them all with in a statement like that is broad.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, for sure. It's why it's such a hard discussion.

The sad truth is that the gaming community is fundamentally misinformed about how the industry actually works. There is a vocal minority of players who love to talk about the industry - and that's great - but when they are wrong, their loudness and their review bombing doesn't make them right. Even commentators like Jim Sterling and Total Biscuit, as much as I like them both, get it wrong a large proportion of the time. That's normal: they are not industry experts. They are external commentators. And sometimes they have great perspectives that help us rethink things. But often they are also just dead wrong.

I am hugely ignorant about other industries. If you ask me why beers cost $10, I would have no idea. But I wouldn't go around criticising bars and downvoting a specific bar for doing it when the whole industry does it. If I really cared, I'd ask about why. And I'd listen. Maybe I'd have a good point to make, and change it - maybe I'd start my own bar and show them how to do it!

But maybe I'd realise also that bar owners just want to make a successful business, and that the factors involved in doing that are quite complicated, and in fact make sense once you get down to it.

As an IT guy working for a metal manufacturer (as one of the few college educated individuals here) I was imparted a bit of wisdom by my own boss: do NOT make a point of how much you know.

You might think you're helping.

You may think you're just being informative.

That isn't how your audience is reading this information.

It's less a bitter pill to the audience and more of a counterproductive one for yourself, IMO.


As you pointed out, Outrage is largely emotional (but again, some of it may be based on fact). Only one of these things you can legislate, and being "right" doesn't necessarily make pointing it out wise.

[custume]

Originally posted by Manywhelps:

Maybe we'll leave the Steam forums like most other developers have. But I think the community would be worse off without it, so I'd rather not do that unless we have no other choice.

Is something pretty good/magnificent, and things will calm down ;)

[C4pM]

Originally posted by Captain Scarlett:

Originally posted by C4pM:

Q3: If GB are taking care of publishing, marketing and promotion, should'nt they have a representative here to deal with steam customers or potential customers? Does seem a bit unfair you have to do all the batting.

I'll answer that one since it's community related.

I don't think people are interested in talking to publishers, they are more interested in talking to the devs making the game. While community management is close to marketing, I've been with our players for 3 years and even if things have been rocky lately, I still hold the community close to my heart and prefer to stay in charge. I know our game and I know our journey, it's just easier to answer questions myself.

Fair enough - and thanks for the reply, but surely as a developer you should be developing - or at least limiting your exposure with the community to game play related stuff? I mean no offence, but there must be specialists at dealing with so much hate? You are getting better at it after a rough start though ;)

And as Manywhelps says, it must be a bit of a downer at the studio. I'm not sure it would be a bad idea for a GB rep to deal with the negativity, and you guys with game related stuff.

[Zimbabwe Salt Co.]

Originally posted by Manywhelps:

Like Scarlett said above, we don't want to leave because those of you in the community who actually play the game want to communicate here. The thought has crossed my mind. It, frankly, sucks to talk with people like the two banned people above. The negativity that we have to deal with is persistent and honestly makes our lives miserable.

But we do it because we want to talk to players like you. We want to share what we love about the game, and want to be able to talk to you guys about it. And we want to be fair to newcomers too.

Maybe we'll leave the Steam forums like most other developers have. But I think the community would be worse off without it, so I'd rather not do that unless we have no other choice.

Oh no I didn't mean for you guys to go there. I meant to try redirect people solely concerned with Gearbox to go there and have Gearbox have establish their own presence over there while you can continue over here.

[Define]

Originally posted by Tero:

Originally posted by Manywhelps:

It's strange because no one apart from Ark and us have attempted to release a retail game out of Early Access. It's new territory, for sure.

ah fair enough

ark is doing awful in ratings tho

[Lil Bro Peep]

Originally posted by SkunkWerks:

As an IT guy working for a metal manufacturer (as one of the few college educated individuals here) I was imparted a bit of wisdom by my own boss: do NOT make a point of how much you know.

You might think you're helping.

You may think you're just being informative.

That isn't how your audience is reading this information.

It's less a bitter pill to the audience and more of a counterproductive one for yourself, IMO.


As you pointed out, Outrage is largely emotional (but again, some of it may be based on fact). Only one of these things you can legislate, and being "right" doesn't necessarily make pointing it out wise.

We know - we have debated this internally. But we committed to being transparent when we started this game. Maybe next time we'll just not say anything. But again, I think the community is better off with us here.

Guys, it's my day off and I've spent it dealing with some nice people, some people with questions (eg SkunkWerks) and some outright ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I'm going to leave for a few days now. Thanks for the discussion - we'll be happy to answer more questions.

[C4pM]

Originally posted by Manywhelps:

Q2: No, there isn't. That's not how game development works - you don't choose to cut stuff and put it into DLC (maybe one or two studios do but on the whole that just isn't how it works). You can choose to cut stuff because it won't be ready in time. That's normal development. That stuff might go into a free DLC (eg if we don't finish a few encounters that we want to), but otherwise you'll see that the paid DLC content is completely different.

Thanks Manywhelps - I think that was my initial concern; that as the game has a release date with big brother watching, you'd have no option but to cut stuff to make the deadline. If you say that if it's not ready, it'll come in free dlc or patches, that's all good. Of course though, as there were no definitive roadmaps or end goals published, we will have to take your word for it, but like I say - we won't really know until the game is out if it'll be worth the $60 or just a good base game ready for mega dlc. I choose to take your word for it for now ;)

[C4pM]

Originally posted by Tero:

Originally posted by Manywhelps:

It's strange because no one apart from Ark and us have attempted to release a retail game out of Early Access. It's new territory, for sure.

ah fair enough

The internet blew up when they released paid for DLC whilst still in EA. I was pretty cheesed at that tbh.

[SkunkWerks]

Originally posted by Manywhelps:

Originally posted by SkunkWerks:

As an IT guy working for a metal manufacturer (as one of the few college educated individuals here) I was imparted a bit of wisdom by my own boss: do NOT make a point of how much you know.

You might think you're helping.

You may think you're just being informative.

That isn't how your audience is reading this information.

It's less a bitter pill to the audience and more of a counterproductive one for yourself, IMO.


As you pointed out, Outrage is largely emotional (but again, some of it may be based on fact). Only one of these things you can legislate, and being "right" doesn't necessarily make pointing it out wise.

We know - we have debated this internally. But we committed to being transparent when we started this game. Maybe next time we'll just not say anything. But again, I think the community is better off with us here.

Guys, it's my day off and I've spent it dealing with some nice people, some people with questions (eg SkunkWerks) and some outright ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I'm going to leave for a few days now. Thanks for the discussion - we'll be happy to answer more questions.

You're missing my point. Again, I think it's great that you guys have been this active in addressing peoples' concerns- that you've been forthright about it. Can't give you enough kudos for that. Because it'd be just as easy not to- you're not obligated.

Heck, maybe I'll go ahead and buy the game at full price when it's released? Maybe I'm impressed. That's an emotion too.


But "Transparency" and "Not Adopting a Patronizing Tone With the Very People You're Trying to Reach" aren't mutually exclusive goals. You can be honest and still respect that some folks have had experiences with Gearbox that makes them less-than-favorable in their eyes.

How you go about being involved and communicating with folks here- especially now- is equally important to what you're communicating. Calling people "ignorant" for disliking Gearbox is probably not the greatest way to keep the most number of people listening- to keep them communicating with you.

And not- in particular- if you want to take the moral high ground about what is- and isn't- insulting.

People who feel insulted stop listening- whether you're right, wrong, or whatever.


I'm dealing with similar conundrums (and people) today at my own place of work- so I can identify. Take your time, decompress. Hopefully this has gotten more civil when you're back at it.