co-op mod in workshop

[Arisen242]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IUnoCwql9s
here a video on it

[Lera]

Last time I tried it was insanely buggy. My friend was at 0 HP, couldn't hurt enemies at atll etc.

[Arisen242]

Originally posted by Lera:

Last time I tried it was insanely buggy. My friend was at 0 HP, couldn't hurt enemies at atll etc.

this what i got from goggle translate seem like they fixed that issue.
v1.1: Emergency fix for the issue where the guest plane couldn't fire.

v1.2.5
1. Fixed 80% of the online issues caused by the guest plane entering the map before the host plane (T0 bug).
2. Fixed the issue where the guest plane couldn't die at 0 health (T0 bug).
3. Both the host and guest planes now correctly gain experience, and kill missions are now shared (T2 bug).
4. Added a waiting mechanism; the guest plane will be forced to enter the map after the host plane has finished loading (T0 bug).
5. Both the host and guest planes can now enter spectator mode (T2 bug).

[weiss]

Originally posted by Lera:

Last time I tried it was insanely buggy. My friend was at 0 HP, couldn't hurt enemies at atll etc.

thats probably why co-op and multiplayer will be not a thing.
because the game is developing wise finished. (aside from bugfixxes).

implementing multiplayer into a game which had said mode never in mind is extremely hard.
they would need to rewrite a ton of things in the game code to make it possible such as:
-how react enemies to a 2nd or more players?
-how ghets the inventory of the 2nd or more players saved?
-host base only or have the other players their own?
-loot is loot shared or not? and if, how to tell the game code without that there are no desyncs?
-keeping the game in dync overall. (this is from a technical standpoint the hardest part depending on latency)
-how gets the progress of other players saved? needs the 2nd or other players a new character? how gets said character saved, at best that theres no progress loss.

i could list even more.
TL;DR:when a game gets developed needs it to have multiplayer from the very start in it.
otherwise is it very hard to near impossible to make it work and needs a lot of dev work and time.

for example: when stardew valley got its multiplayer took it nearly 1 and a half year before it worked "more or less" fine and 2 years after most bugs got solved.

edit: see, arisen wrote even more things down which would be a problem.

[nervousdog]

yes please

[Quagimus Decimuֆ]

Originally posted by weiss:

Originally posted by Lera:

Last time I tried it was insanely buggy. My friend was at 0 HP, couldn't hurt enemies at atll etc.

thats probably why co-op and multiplayer will be not a thing.
because the game is developing wise finished. (aside from bugfixxes).

implementing multiplayer into a game which had said mode never in mind is extremely hard.
they would need to rewrite a ton of things in the game code to make it possible such as:
-how react enemies to a 2nd or more players?
-how ghets the inventory of the 2nd or more players saved?
-host base only or have the other players their own?
-loot is loot shared or not? and if, how to tell the game code without that there are no desyncs?
-keeping the game in dync overall. (this is from a technical standpoint the hardest part depending on latency)
-how gets the progress of other players saved? needs the 2nd or other players a new character? how gets said character saved, at best that theres no progress loss.

i could list even more.
TL;DR:when a game gets developed needs it to have multiplayer from the very start in it.
otherwise is it very hard to near impossible to make it work and needs a lot of dev work and time.

for example: when stardew valley got its multiplayer took it nearly 1 and a half year before it worked "more or less" fine and 2 years after most bugs got solved.

edit: see, arisen wrote even more things down which would be a problem.

Still doable, skyrim and even fallout 4? has co-op now. it's doable.

[『Gecko』]

Originally posted by weiss:

Originally posted by Lera:

Last time I tried it was insanely buggy. My friend was at 0 HP, couldn't hurt enemies at atll etc.

thats probably why co-op and multiplayer will be not a thing.
because the game is developing wise finished. (aside from bugfixxes).

implementing multiplayer into a game which had said mode never in mind is extremely hard.
they would need to rewrite a ton of things in the game code to make it possible such as:
-how react enemies to a 2nd or more players?
-how ghets the inventory of the 2nd or more players saved?
-host base only or have the other players their own?
-loot is loot shared or not? and if, how to tell the game code without that there are no desyncs?
-keeping the game in dync overall. (this is from a technical standpoint the hardest part depending on latency)
-how gets the progress of other players saved? needs the 2nd or other players a new character? how gets said character saved, at best that theres no progress loss.

i could list even more.
TL;DR:when a game gets developed needs it to have multiplayer from the very start in it.
otherwise is it very hard to near impossible to make it work and needs a lot of dev work and time.

for example: when stardew valley got its multiplayer took it nearly 1 and a half year before it worked "more or less" fine and 2 years after most bugs got solved.

edit: see, arisen wrote even more things down which would be a problem.

You are overcomplicating stuff, where there is absolutely no reason for it...
Unity Engine (which this game here has been developed on) and Unreal Engine have their own multiplayer frameworks, FOR FREE, which can be added with a simple button press, and it works. It is plain simple, you can see each other, each other's actions (shooting, casting skills, dropping items - given that you have that everything) and that reflects just fine and is the minimum required codebase for that. Everything else works quite easily, e.g. picking up the item from your coop partner, shooting at some entity and them loosing health on both clients, switching scenes (in your term "worlds", like leaving the bunker) and such are almost naturally working.

This ain't a game made from scratch, and people "defending", for whatever reason, these states of the games as "it is not easy to do this and that" is simply put a pain to read. Everytime someone goes like "Uh, VR implementation is sooo hard, brooo. It is currently impossible to! Because lots of things to consider, to do, and yadda yadda" - nope. It is very same case here. The Engines do offer packages, plugins, headers and required mandatory stuff for free. It is even a project sample you can get into and look how those mechanics work. Top down, First person, 3rd Person, VR, Racing, Side-Scroller - there are presets which work perfectly from the start.

People adding those functions via MODs have a harder time, as they have to make most of the things from scratch.

[Schnatze]

Originally posted by 『Gecko』:

You are overcomplicating stuff, where there is absolutely no reason for it...
Unity Engine (which this game here has been developed on) and Unreal Engine have their own multiplayer frameworks, FOR FREE, which can be added with a simple button press, and it works. It is plain simple, you can see each other, each other's actions (shooting, casting skills, dropping items - given that you have that everything) and that reflects just fine and is the minimum required codebase for that. Everything else works quite easily, e.g. picking up the item from your coop partner, shooting at some entity and them loosing health on both clients, switching scenes (in your term "worlds", like leaving the bunker) and such are almost naturally working.

This ain't a game made from scratch, and people "defending", for whatever reason, these states of the games as "it is not easy to do this and that" is simply put a pain to read. Everytime someone goes like "Uh, VR implementation is sooo hard, brooo. It is currently impossible to! Because lots of things to consider, to do, and yadda yadda" - nope. It is very same case here. The Engines do offer packages, plugins, headers and required mandatory stuff for free. It is even a project sample you can get into and look how those mechanics work. Top down, First person, 3rd Person, VR, Racing, Side-Scroller - there are presets which work perfectly from the start.

People adding those functions via MODs have a harder time, as they have to make most of the things from scratch.

You clearly dont know what yopu are talking about. I am a Unity dev myself now for multiple years now.. Yes you can add multiplayer functionality "by pressing just a button" but if you do this in a project this size you will break everything as mentioned before. It is way more than just a checkbox you can turn on and off. "Unitys Multiplayer Button" is very bare bone and you have to do A LOT of things thoughourt the project to make it work well. It would be a ton of code change...

[『Gecko』]

Originally posted by Schnatze:

Originally posted by 『Gecko』:

You are overcomplicating stuff, where there is absolutely no reason for it...
Unity Engine (which this game here has been developed on) and Unreal Engine have their own multiplayer frameworks, FOR FREE, which can be added with a simple button press, and it works. It is plain simple, you can see each other, each other's actions (shooting, casting skills, dropping items - given that you have that everything) and that reflects just fine and is the minimum required codebase for that. Everything else works quite easily, e.g. picking up the item from your coop partner, shooting at some entity and them loosing health on both clients, switching scenes (in your term "worlds", like leaving the bunker) and such are almost naturally working.

This ain't a game made from scratch, and people "defending", for whatever reason, these states of the games as "it is not easy to do this and that" is simply put a pain to read. Everytime someone goes like "Uh, VR implementation is sooo hard, brooo. It is currently impossible to! Because lots of things to consider, to do, and yadda yadda" - nope. It is very same case here. The Engines do offer packages, plugins, headers and required mandatory stuff for free. It is even a project sample you can get into and look how those mechanics work. Top down, First person, 3rd Person, VR, Racing, Side-Scroller - there are presets which work perfectly from the start.

People adding those functions via MODs have a harder time, as they have to make most of the things from scratch.

You clearly dont know what yopu are talking about. I am a Unity dev myself now for multiple years now.. Yes you can add multiplayer functionality "by pressing just a button" but if you do this in a project this size you will break everything as mentioned before. It is way more than just a checkbox you can turn on and off. "Unitys Multiplayer Button" is very bare bone and you have to do A LOT of things thoughourt the project to make it work well. It would be a ton of code change...

"I am a dev", ok, dev, show me your multiplayer product then.

[1HP]

Two unity dev shining knights having a measuring contest. Just wonderful.

[Schnatze]

Originally posted by 『Gecko』:

Originally posted by Schnatze:

You clearly dont know what yopu are talking about. I am a Unity dev myself now for multiple years now.. Yes you can add multiplayer functionality "by pressing just a button" but if you do this in a project this size you will break everything as mentioned before. It is way more than just a checkbox you can turn on and off. "Unitys Multiplayer Button" is very bare bone and you have to do A LOT of things thoughourt the project to make it work well. It would be a ton of code change...

"I am a dev", ok, dev, show me your multiplayer product then.

I dont have to proof anything to you. Any dev would tell you the same... It even isnt just Unity related. You dont press a button to magicaly turn your game into a Multiplayer game in any Engine. You are a fool if you think it is like that. That might true for a testscene you clicked together in 2 hours while following a YouTube tutorial for beginners. The engine provides network components, but not your multiplayer system.

A single-player game isn't built for deterministic, synchronous multi-client logic. For multiplayer to function stably, you need to completely rebuild the game logic, make all relevant objects replicable, shift authority, adjust physics and AI, and convert the entire game to network operation. This is a major overhaul of code, assets, and architecture. No framework can do that for you.
You obviously dont have any experience with real-world projects, no understanding of network architecture and you are underestimating complexity because only simple prototypes have been built, if any at all. You most likely donwloaded unity and stumbled trough the demo scenes but you dont have in-depth understanding of gameplay architecture or any experience with production networking. you have no understanding of client-server models.
To make a game multiplayer you would habe to change:
making the game logic network-compatible
take care of synchronization of all relevant states
onership management
lag handling, prediction, reconciliation
security logic (server authority)
persistence
matchmaking
server infrastructure
UI/UX adjustments for multiplayer
level design and balancing adjustments
performance/memory/network optimization
you have to implement all of this yourself even if unity provides you with a framework,
the framework cant provide you with the gamelogic realted to networking

your assumption that singleplayer logic automatically works in multiplayer is categorically false. By definition single-player code is not deterministic between clients. you would run in multiple problems likes:
local physics must become server-side authoritative
AI must be server-side controlled
Items are local objects but need network identities
Scene transitions must be synchronized
local MonoBehaviors suddenly become network nodes
timing is no longer constant
Sequences, triggers, progression everything must be synchronized and replicated
most of the game systems have to be adjusted to support multiplayer and there is no button to press.
the MP framework delivers some of the functionality above but you have to implement it.

you are a perfect example to explain the dunning kruger effect to someone...

[『Gecko』]

Originally posted by Schnatze:

Originally posted by 『Gecko』:

"I am a dev", ok, dev, show me your multiplayer product then.

I dont have to proof anything to you. Any dev would tell you the same... It even isnt just Unity related. You dont press a button to magicaly turn your game into a Multiplayer game in any Engine. You are a fool if you think it is like that. That might true for a testscene you clicked together in 2 hours while following a YouTube tutorial for beginners. The engine provides network components, but not your multiplayer system.

A single-player game isn't built for deterministic, synchronous multi-client logic. For multiplayer to function stably, you need to completely rebuild the game logic, make all relevant objects replicable, shift authority, adjust physics and AI, and convert the entire game to network operation. This is a major overhaul of code, assets, and architecture. No framework can do that for you.
You obviously dont have any experience with real-world projects, no understanding of network architecture and you are underestimating complexity because only simple prototypes have been built, if any at all. You most likely donwloaded unity and stumbled trough the demo scenes but you dont have in-depth understanding of gameplay architecture or any experience with production networking. you have no understanding of client-server models.
To make a game multiplayer you would habe to change:
making the game logic network-compatible
take care of synchronization of all relevant states
onership management
lag handling, prediction, reconciliation
security logic (server authority)
persistence
matchmaking
server infrastructure
UI/UX adjustments for multiplayer
level design and balancing adjustments
performance/memory/network optimization
you have to implement all of this yourself even if unity provides you with a framework,
the framework cant provide you with the gamelogic realted to networking

your assumption that singleplayer logic automatically works in multiplayer is categorically false. By definition single-player code is not deterministic between clients. you would run in multiple problems likes:
local physics must become server-side authoritative
AI must be server-side controlled
Items are local objects but need network identities
Scene transitions must be synchronized
local MonoBehaviors suddenly become network nodes
timing is no longer constant
Sequences, triggers, progression everything must be synchronized and replicated
most of the game systems have to be adjusted to support multiplayer and there is no button to press.
the MP framework delivers some of the functionality above but you have to implement it.

you are a perfect example to explain the dunning kruger effect to someone...

All I read is blah blah blah. Andere den Dunning Kruger Effekt vorzuwerfen, jedoch selbst nur labern zu können, ist auch nicht gerade die intellektuell Art sich zu beweisen.
Daher, dein Geschwätz interessiert mich nicht, da es, wie es von typischen deutschen Nichtsnutzen wie dir, sonst nichts anderes zu erwarten ist.

[Schnatze]

Originally posted by 『Gecko』:

All I read is blah blah blah. Andere den Dunning Kruger Effekt vorzuwerfen, jedoch selbst nur labern zu können, ist auch nicht gerade die intellektuell Art sich zu beweisen.
Daher, dein Geschwätz interessiert mich nicht, da es, wie es von typischen deutschen Nichtsnutzen wie dir, sonst nichts anderes zu erwarten ist.

Bist schon n goldiges Kerlchen, was heißt denn labern. Ich sag dir nur wie es ist, wenn du nur die Hälfte davon verstehst und das als bla bla abtust, kann ich dir auch nicht helfen. Will ich auch gar nicht. Du hast recht und ich meine Ruhe...
https://imgur.com/a/cJ6S3kz
Und ja, fremde Plugins liegen nicht im Scripts Verzeichnis.

[『Gecko』]

Originally posted by Schnatze:

Originally posted by 『Gecko』:

All I read is blah blah blah. Andere den Dunning Kruger Effekt vorzuwerfen, jedoch selbst nur labern zu können, ist auch nicht gerade die intellektuell Art sich zu beweisen.
Daher, dein Geschwätz interessiert mich nicht, da es, wie es von typischen deutschen Nichtsnutzen wie dir, sonst nichts anderes zu erwarten ist.

Bist schon n goldiges Kerlchen, was heißt denn labern. Ich sag dir nur wie es ist, wenn du nur die Hälfte davon verstehst und das als bla bla abtust, kann ich dir auch nicht helfen. Will ich auch gar nicht. Du hast recht und ich meine Ruhe...
https://imgur.com/a/cJ6S3kz
Und ja, fremde Plugins liegen nicht im Scripts Verzeichnis.

Toll, du weißt wie man im Terminal die Ordnerstrukturen anzeigen lassen kann. Genau so sinnvoll wie ein Meter Feldweg. Hast sehr gut bewiesen, dass du was kannst. Applaus, mein Äffchen. Wirst es noch weit bringen!

[Schnatze]

Wer lesen kann ist klar im Vorteil. Tanz weiter kleiner Bär. Tanz für mich...
Und ich muss dir ja gar nichts beweisen.. Du bist mir relativ egal.

weisst du .. du schaust dir den rotz hier an:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OLUdPkkQPI

Und dann denkst du das ist es? wirklich? ernsthaft? Ich geb dir den tip. hör auch 10 minuten youtube videos über einzelne klein themen zu schauen. lerne konzepte, dann kannst du auch mitreden...sagt dir chain of responsibility was? state machine? factory pattern? nein? service locator oder dependency injection? wenn ja habe ich keine ahnung wie du auf nen magic multiplayer button kommst...

lol sorry ich weiss bla bla wieder..ach is aber auch schwer mit mir :-D

[Fabi da Bee Oh ay]

Originally posted by Schnatze:

Wer lesen kann ist klar im Vorteil. Tanz weiter kleiner Bär. Tanz für mich...
Und ich muss dir ja gar nichts beweisen.. Du bist mir relativ egal.

weisst du .. du schaust dir den rotz hier an:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OLUdPkkQPI

Und dann denkst du das ist es? wirklich? ernsthaft? Ich geb dir den tip. hör auch 10 minuten youtube videos über einzelne klein themen zu schauen. lerne konzepte, dann kannst du auch mitreden...sagt dir chain of responsibility was? state machine? factory pattern? nein? service locator oder dependency injection? wenn ja habe ich keine ahnung wie du auf nen magic multiplayer button kommst...

lol sorry ich weiss bla bla wieder..ach is aber auch schwer mit mir :-D

Alter macht ihr euch beide zum Affen hier. Ihr seid ja ehrlich die größten unausstehlichen auf diesem Planeten. Ja Schnatze hat Recht, aber führt sich halt auf wien Ar***. @Schnatze man muss halt auch nicht so unausstehlich sein nur weil man Recht hat. @Gecko Nein man kann definitiv nicht so einfach Multiplayer in ein komplexes Projekt einfügen. Aber chillt mal beide wtf hattet ihr beide ne richtig beschissene Woche oder warum kackt ihr euch hier so an wegen nem verdammten Enten-Tarkov. Deine überhebliche Art lässt dich ehrlich nicht so symphatisch rüberkommen Schnatze und Gecko du brauchst nicht so verdammt stur in was zu sein, wo du offensichtlich nicht so den Durchblick hast. Selbst die KI merkt das, wenn ich ihr die Diskussion hier mal zum drüberschauen gebe. Du trotzt hier eher mit Halbwissen auf Einsteigerlevel, während Schnatze ein paar richtig gute Punkte hat, die aber rüberbringt wie der letzte Ar*** sorry Schnatze aber chillt mal beide ehrlich ihr habt viel zu viel Hass hier in der Diskussion.