Feedback after 50 hours

[stenjamesfar]

Multiple Characters:
I've made three characters and it's a grind to unlock items for each one. I think it would help if items you already unlocked with one character were easier to unlock with new characters. You could reduce the amount of gold, research time, number of kills, etc. You could let the player buy unlocks using witchfire or another resource. You could let them carry forward without research, but they all start at level 1. I think any change would help. The grind is fun initially, but it starts to hurt replayability

Ammo:
I feel like ammo is too scarce for certain weapons. I've used all the weapons and spent time upgrading them, but there are some I won't touch when I'm doing a serious run (clearing the map, calamities, the vault, and the boss). They just become a liability. If they were more powerful I might use them regardless, but they're relatively the same as others minus ammo capacity

On Gnosis 3 and 4, ammo becomes more scarce given how the ammo crates work. There are more ascended which require more bullets to kill. It just gets worse the more you progress. I see in my inventory there are ammo packs, but I hate wasting limited resources. I'd rather just walk across the entire map to find a crate (wasting time). I feel like these weapons could be fun to use if they were more viable, but right now I don't use except to unlock the mysteriums (then they sit at base collecting dust)

Traps:
I've mentioned this before, but I don't like traps. Another 20 hours of playing the game has only solidified my feelings. On higher difficulties, it's a bad idea to fight around them, so I just avoid those areas. It's unfortunate because those areas might be fun to fight in and I have to wait until I level up to reset the map or use an inventory item

I feel like they don't mesh well with the game. There's lots of heavy action and freedom of movement, but the traps negatively impact both. You can get resources from disarming them, but I don't use them (I've used the base recipes maybe twice in 50 hours). They could provide witchfire clusters instead, but I still wouldn't want them in the game

The gatekeeper is kind of like a trap (it's cloaked until you get into range and will cause you damage if you get too close). I really don't like it. It slows down the pace when you need to hunt around for totems to destroy. I've had multiple situations in the castle where the totem was not in sight of the gatekeeper, so I couldn't match the colors to destroy it (I tried just getting the timing right, but it didn't seem to work either). It's just not fun to disable this trap whether there are enemies around or not

I'd say it could be reworked to be faster. Just have one totem in front or get rid of the requirement to match colors if there are two of them. Honestly, I just don't like the idea of it. It should be fun to destroy in the midst of battle, not a chore. I think it would be more fun if the gatekeeper slowly moved towards your position and the totems would circle around it. You would need to shoot two or three of them before it catches you against a wall or in a dead end. That would be fun to me. Not just a stationary wall of pain you need to go around or waste time disabling

The Wailing Tower:
It took me four tries to reach the boss. The first time I got stuck on the madmen and died. One spawned behind me and I just couldn't move. It reminded me of when I get stuck in the environment. I think this was a bug. I haven't had it happen with other enemy types

The second attempt, I was forced to take a portal out because it wouldn't let me progress. I had come back from the first survival dimension and killed all the enemies around, but there was one red dot on the map I couldn't reach. It looked like it was on the other side of a wall. I spent 15 minutes running around trying to get the next stage to trigger until I gave up and used the portal. I wonder if my decay item aggroed an enemy from another stage of the level

The third attempt I was trying to trigger the second dimension jump. The enemies did not stop spawning and the red dimension area never appeared. The objective at the top said to kill all enemies and also to survive for x amount of time. The survival time kept increasing even though I hadn't entered the dimension. I had all health potions and tons of ammo at the beginning and I fought waves of enemies for several minutes stuck in a loop until I finally died

The fourth attempt, the second dimension jump triggered fine and I was able to face the boss. I killed him on my first try, but I'm honestly done with the tower until the bugs are worked out (which means I won't be able to unlock items with divinity at the altar). I feel like there were three bugs: getting stuck on a spawning enemy, having one enemy left to kill that I couldn't reach, and the endless stream of enemies and glitched out objectives

I also noticed on my second attempt that it required me to accept more of the corrupted arcana than normal in order to open the doors. I remember needing to use ammo and health altars to get more corrupted arcana because it said I didn't have enough (I had already used the crystal from defeating enemies), but on the third and fourth attempts I didn't need to. This could be another bug, but maybe it's an intended mechanic? It certainly makes a difference when you've got twice as many debuffs (I didn't need the health or ammo at the time)

[I'm cucked]

Why would you make multiple characters like that.

[stenjamesfar]

I wanted to try different stat builds and difficulties. The first character was metanoia based, the second was endurance, and the third was witchery

The game doesn't let you lower the gnosis level later, so I was afraid of getting locked into a difficulty I wouldn't enjoy. I used my third character to rush to the final gnosis level. It turns out the (current) hardest difficulty isn't that different from the ones before and it makes the game better

It was fun overall and I learned a lot about the game. Endurance is my favorite stat, witchery is second, vitality is third, healing is fourth, and I don't bother upgrading luck or metanoia (I did the math on the ROI)

[AdrianChm]

Originally posted by stenjamesfar:

Feedback after 50 hours

Thanks for the feedback! While I am pretty happy with traps, I'm not happy with the Gatekeeper yet. Will be redesigned later on. I forwarded the Tower bug info to the team, but FWIW this is the first we hear about them.

One quick question: could you name the weapons that you think have ammo issues?

[chr_isso]

I gotta write something in here on ammo scarcity.
It might be an issue of the very early game and yes, in version 0.1 i found myself on the same side, running out of ammo with e.g. hunger.
but that is not the case, if you know how to play the game properly and how to make use of what the game gives you.

ammo scarcity comes from not using aoe - and not making use of the game mechanics.
if you think it's a simple shooter, you get ammo issues. but WF is not a simple shooter, you gotta make use of your magic and especially of the elemental combos.

you can also use the vendor to bring ammo - which usually is not needed, if you know how to make use of e.g. Ring of Thorns.

However:
The ammo crates could get an overhaul: instead of dropping ammo for the run, they could drop one or two ammo packs.
if that was the case, you would not have to run over the whole map to get the ammo when you need it, instead you could use the ammo from the inventory.

The Wailing Tower was a learning curve for everyone and this is something that i really like.
On my first playthrough, i roughly spend 5 minutes in both phases each. it is what it is, this is not doom or call of duty, where you can shut down your brain and pew pew pew... you gotta think a little.. or watch the guides on YT...

[stenjamesfar]

It'll be a while before I can detail specific weapons since I'm traveling for events right now (I need my desktop to run Witchfire and I haven't been able to play since the last update)

@chr_isso, the proper way to play the game is however you best enjoy it. I don't enjoy going through extra effort to get more ammo - whether that means trekking across the map to an ammo crate, digging in my inventory for an ammo pack, or using a certain item/spell. If the weapon runs dry too quickly then I'll just pick a weapon that doesn't

You're assuming I didn't pause the game to review a guide? The second and third examples are bugs. How would you have continued through the tower when it requires you to kill all enemies yet one remains on your map that is not accessible? I double-checked with online sources at the time to verify all areas had been fully explored

In the third example, why would the survival timer count up instead of down? What would you do to remedy that?

[chr_isso]

Originally posted by stenjamesfar:

@chr_isso, the proper way to play the game is however you best enjoy it. I don't enjoy going through extra effort to get more ammo - whether that means trekking across the map to an ammo crate, digging in my inventory for an ammo pack, or using a certain item/spell. If the weapon runs dry too quickly then I'll just pick a weapon that doesn't

It's totally fine mate, all im saying is: if a gun deals 100 damage, but if you apply a spell first an then the gun does 150 damage ... you save half a bullet.
and that adds up. So .. scarcity comes from not using every tool the game gives you.
if you dont want to use spells etc that is fine. but then dont blame the game for not giving you enough ammo.

i agree with you - having to run through the map to get to the ammo crate is bad. we have all been there, done that. and yes, i dont like it. that's why i made a suggestion.

Originally posted by stenjamesfar:

You're assuming I didn't pause the game to review a guide? The second and third examples are bugs. How would you have continued through the tower when it requires you to kill all enemies yet one remains on your map that is not accessible? I double-checked with online sources at the time to verify all areas had been fully explored

Might be the case - the game is in Early Access and the DEVs are happy to read about every bug we encounter. So please go ahead and report those - ideally on the discord.
We all want the best game possible.

Originally posted by stenjamesfar:

In the third example, why would the survival timer count up instead of down? What would you do to remedy that?

That's a tough one. In the dimensional rift, you can collect Prophecies. I made a guide on how to find them all.
if you prolong your time before entering the rift, you have more time to collect all Prophecies. But then you need to survive for longer, so .. it's kinda part of the loop.

[nitrous dickclapp]

Originally posted by AdrianChm:

Originally posted by stenjamesfar:

Feedback after 50 hours

Thanks for the feedback! While I am pretty happy with traps, I'm not happy with the Gatekeeper yet. Will be redesigned later on. I forwarded the Tower bug info to the team, but FWIW this is the first we hear about them.

One quick question: could you name the weapons that you think have ammo issues?

the one i have the most issue with is the psychopomp, closely followed by the judgement and with echo not far behind. but the psychopomp is by far the worst, i like it but i dont use it bcos of the ammo shortage. same with the judgement, i like it but i feel like i have to focus too much on ammo to really be able to cut loose. its just a bit too on the short side for it to feel right