Finally got around to try Torment VII

[Michel Baie]

It didn't go well, I died thrice so far. The last attempt was promising tho.

I'll go with the majority here, it might be juuuuust a little overtuned.
Not "impossible", just overtuned.

More health result in mobs being very tanky.
The witch then can heal regularily a big portion of said health, and then there's always the eleventh mob to make sure you have a bad time.
All of that while you can't drop ammo nor get an ammo chest, and it's of course on the largest maps of the game.

But again, not impossible.
However it seems you're really limited in the options you can bring to pass the challenge.
You have to bring ammo bags, the ammo-related beads, and I doubt there's that many builds viable.

Even Torment IV doesn't lock you that much.

Maybe this torment should be toned down a little.
Even just a reduced heal rate for notable enemies (midboss, elites, ascended) could be sufficient in making the challenge more balanced without making it easy.

[H E X E N]

It's fine. Difficulty is on point.

I cursed at my monitor a bit, but eventually found a build that made the run easy after thinking about it in the garden. Beating this Torment with Ice Sphere is the height of class and character.

Others have given their builds as well, and they're all different. While a little narrower on the build variety, there's still plenty of strong ones that can take you through this Torment.

[Nya]

Perhaps there are two major issues with people trying to attempt Torment challenges.

First issue being they refuses to adjust their build or loadout. Some of the Torment modifiers work as a double-edge for both the enemies and the player and it is very apparent in telling the player what to watch out for and what exploit it provides.

The second issue is people keep forgetting to clear a Torment challenge, they only need to force 7 manifestations \ clear 7 camps and then extract (apparently extraction not needed to cash in for clearing Torments). Anything else are absolutely optional, this includes any minibosses, any events, any familiar, warden, sentinel,... etc.. The extraction aspect you can also cheese with Portal Flame after clearing all the camps, provided you only need to bait everything chasing you away from the arrival portal and then make a rush to it and wait a few seconds to extract.

In particular to Torment 7, the enhanced Burn power and extra health are begging players to run Burning Stake with Painful Recharge arcana. The every 10 kills spawn an enemy is only a distraction, you either ignore it completely or cleave it down with whatever AoE you have. Chances are it will mix into the camp mobs you try to clear, but if you see the manifestation popped but a mob is still around then that one must be an extra that you can ignore or drag to next camp to cleave it down with AoE. The periodic enemy healing and no ammo drop means you need to bring loadout that can dish out high damage in a short time. These are usually the high caliber guns with 90+ damage that can usually 1 or 2 shots enemies (provided you are acquaint in using them) and single target damage focused Light Spell such as Fireball or spell that help increase your damage like Shockwave to stun enemies. This being said, Torment 7 is a fire spell focused challenge so that is something you can take an advantage on. If you see enemies just got heal, that is your window cue to DPS burst since the healing just got put on cooldown. The faster you can kill, the less ammo or resource problem you will face for this challenge.

Two more bonus tips. You can also start a run and immediate quit to main menu (and or taking the Placebo Pill) in attempt to re-roll a few map objects placement into your favor. This can help too. And feel free to force open any supply chests and grab any temptations (especially this, extra Light Spell or Heavy Spell gives a massive advantage to player). Torment runs usually start you off max world corruption, so those stuff are all freebies \ advantage that player can exploit. And contrary to the practice that most people do, which is to start World Cleanse right away; that is arguably unnecessary. Provided if you got a run without Stone Golem (re-roll if you see it) and if you can avoid the Madness Orb and Unstable Rifts (also re-roll if you do not want to deal with them in uncomfortable places) in your planned route. So the only thing you need to go out of your way is to destroy the 5 Spires.

Torments are meant to be challenges, people should be prepared to change their tactics, loadouts and feeling uncomfortable with the changes being thrown at them. But luckily these modifiers can also give an exploit to the player and part of the key to clear them is to work with those modifiers to your advantages and stay focus with the only 1 true objective; to force 7 manifestations \ clear 7 camps and then extract.

[Michel Baie]

Originally posted by Nya:

Perhaps there are two major issues with people trying to attempt Torment challenges.

First issue being they refuses to adjust their build or loadout. Some of the Torment modifiers work as a double-edge for both the enemies and the player and it is very apparent in telling the player what to watch out for and what exploit it provides.

The second issue is people keep forgetting to clear a Torment challenge, they only need to force 7 manifestations \ clear 7 camps and then extract. Anything else are absolutely optional, this includes any minibosses, any events, any familiar, warden, sentinel,... etc.. The extraction aspect you can also cheese with Portal Flame after clearing all the camps, provided you only need to bait everything chasing you away from the arrival portal and then make a rush to it and wait a few seconds to extract.

Perhaps there's one problem with people making generalisations about players suggesting the difficulty should be rebalanced : the formers think the latter are complete obtuse idiots.

By torment VII, my dude, everybody knows how those things works and that build adjustments are a thing.

If only because torment IV was in the way before it.

[Nya]

Originally posted by Michel Baie:

Originally posted by Nya:

Perhaps there are two major issues with people trying to attempt Torment challenges.

First issue being they refuses to adjust their build or loadout. Some of the Torment modifiers work as a double-edge for both the enemies and the player and it is very apparent in telling the player what to watch out for and what exploit it provides.

The second issue is people keep forgetting to clear a Torment challenge, they only need to force 7 manifestations \ clear 7 camps and then extract. Anything else are absolutely optional, this includes any minibosses, any events, any familiar, warden, sentinel,... etc.. The extraction aspect you can also cheese with Portal Flame after clearing all the camps, provided you only need to bait everything chasing you away from the arrival portal and then make a rush to it and wait a few seconds to extract.

Perhaps there's one problem with people making generalisations about players suggesting the difficulty should be rebalanced : the formers think the latter are complete obtuse idiots.

By torment VII, my dude, everybody knows how those things works and that build adjustments are a thing.

Did not said anything about anyone being idiots, but many complains heard so far more or less points to those 2 issues; at least from how it is being presented in their posts.

[Michel Baie]

Originally posted by Nya:

Originally posted by Michel Baie:

Perhaps there's one problem with people making generalisations about players suggesting the difficulty should be rebalanced : the formers think the latter are complete obtuse idiots.

By torment VII, my dude, everybody knows how those things works and that build adjustments are a thing.

Did not said anything about anyone being idiots, but many complains heard so far more or less points to those 2 issues; at least from how it is being presented in their posts.

But not here so can you at the very least give me the benefit of doubt instead of piling me among the clueless ?

On a side note, I checked with Torment 1 to be sure : you don't even have to extract to complete a torment. The only condition is the seven manifestations, You can die on your way out and still cash in.

[H E X E N]

Originally posted by Michel Baie:

On a side note, I checked with Torment 1 to be sure : you don't even have to extract to complete a torment. The only condition is the seven manifestations, You can die on your way out and still cash in.

Does this change your mind on VII?

[Michel Baie]

Originally posted by H E X E N:

Originally posted by Michel Baie:

On a side note, I checked with Torment 1 to be sure : you don't even have to extract to complete a torment. The only condition is the seven manifestations, You can die on your way out and still cash in.

Does this change your mind on VII?

No, I still think it's a little overtuned.
I'm just mentioning that tidbit of info because I saw the guy talking about having to evac to complete a torment.


But TBH, I probably wouldn't mind the difficulty of Torment 7 and its lesser amount of workable builds if the shadow orbs weren't that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to charge.
If I could simply get the spells needed online instead of having to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ farm, I'd probably be done by now.

I suggested being able to charge multiple orbs and alleviating the possibility of some conditions for them, I stand by that. Passively charging them with normal gameplay, even if it was slow, would help a lot with endgame.
And while we're at it, maybe have them gain some efficiency with spells.

[Nya]

Originally posted by Michel Baie:

Originally posted by Nya:

Did not said anything about anyone being idiots, but many complains heard so far more or less points to those 2 issues; at least from how it is being presented in their posts.

But not here so can you at the very least give me the benefit of doubt instead of piling me among the clueless ?

Then you are simply reading too much into stuff that is not in the post. The reply points at 2 commonly observed issues and followed by 2 paragraphs of suggestions for Torment 7.

Originally posted by Michel Baie:

On a side note, I checked with Torment 1 to be sure : you don't even have to extract to complete a torment. The only condition is the seven manifestations, You can die on your way out and still cash in.

Good to know, learned something new just now. One less action to worry about for Torment runs.

[H E X E N]

Originally posted by Michel Baie:

But TBH, I probably wouldn't mind the difficulty of Torment 7 and its lesser amount of workable builds if the shadow orbs weren't that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to charge.
If I could simply get the spells needed online instead of having to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ farm, I'd probably be done by now.

Not trying to be an ass here, but is it possible that in this playthrough you're just not ready to run this particular Torment yet?

I only ask because you talk about needing Shadow Orbs to unlock Mysteriums faster. Not sure what lvl you're at and on what playthrough (1, 2 3?) but some of the Torments are really there for, in my opinion, late game content. This means having all the spells, Beads and weapons at M3 available to you in order to experiment around with.

[Michel Baie]

Originally posted by H E X E N:

Originally posted by Michel Baie:

But TBH, I probably wouldn't mind the difficulty of Torment 7 and its lesser amount of workable builds if the shadow orbs weren't that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to charge.
If I could simply get the spells needed online instead of having to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ farm, I'd probably be done by now.

Not trying to be an ass here, but is it possible that in this playthrough you're just not ready to run this particular Torment yet?

I only ask because you talk about needing Shadow Orbs to unlock Mysteriums faster. Not sure what lvl you're at and on what playthrough (1, 2 3?) but some of the Torments are really there for, in my opinion, late game content. This means having all the spells, Beads and weapons at M3 available to you in order to experiment around with.

sigh

This torment is the last notable thing have to do for that save, I did all the others currently available. Beside that I think there's like a few orbs I didn't get yet, but without a way to track progress in game I'm probably not going to bother.

This is basically my third real run. I start anew with new versions of the game.

... taking time to farm everything to M3, what a chore. Good for you if you enjoyed doing that, but I'm not going to. I upgrade what I use to M3, and the rest stays at the hermitorium.

[H E X E N]

Originally posted by Michel Baie:

... taking time to farm everything to M3, what a chore.

Yeah, darn that extra playtime!

Originally posted by Michel Baie:

Good for you if you enjoyed doing that, but I'm not going to. I upgrade what I use to M3, and the rest stays at the hermitorium.

You're only hurting yourself.

Don't ask the devs to change the game because you've purposefully handicapped your Preyer.

[MasPingon]

So to sum it up - you don't have M3, you don't have spells and you are complaining about Torment VII difficulty?Nya wrote a great post about what you're doing wrong, and you decided to cry that he's repressing you instead. You won't beat it if you don't get out of your safe space.

[The Swedish Fart Cannon]

Originally posted by Michel Baie:

It didn't go well, I died thrice so far. The last attempt was promising tho.

I'll go with the majority here, it might be juuuuust a little overtuned.
Not "impossible", just overtuned.

More health result in mobs being very tanky.
The witch then can heal regularily a big portion of said health, and then there's always the eleventh mob to make sure you have a bad time.
All of that while you can't drop ammo nor get an ammo chest, and it's of course on the largest maps of the game.

But again, not impossible.
However it seems you're really limited in the options you can bring to pass the challenge.
You have to bring ammo bags, the ammo-related beads, and I doubt there's that many builds viable.

Even Torment IV doesn't lock you that much.

Maybe this torment should be toned down a little.
Even just a reduced heal rate for notable enemies (midboss, elites, ascended) could be sufficient in making the challenge more balanced without making it easy.

I would say its pretty overtuned. I went with the ever so "slightly" op Rotweaver/striga build and it was still hard AF!

[llVllERCY]

i think you need to get better or just except you cant do it, that's life little soldier, not everything can be done by everybody, you are not as good as some and that's fine. you don't have to assume it needs changing because you cant do along with many others as there's many of us that enjoy the challenge and comfortably beat it?? this again is the hard truth, get better or except you cant do it. your choice to persist or abandon, nothing needs to be tuned other than you maybe lol, just playing but seriously its perfectly ok to not be able to beat something as this is a part of life, if this is your mentality lol well enjoy life bud as you're in for a shock.

[The Dream Traveler]

It being difficult is the point. And I'm really glad the devs aren't caving to a few people complaining about the intentionally hard parts of the game being too hard. There are people who actually want a challenge and not a cakewalk that they can just beat in a few tries