Immortal Defense

Immortal Defense

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 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Pathborn  [developer] Nov 15, 2014 @ 4:12am
[Sticky] Bugs, Suggestions, Steam Keys, etc.
Any bugs or suggestions can be posted here and I'll look them over and try to respond to each.
Last edited by Pathborn; Aug 28, 2015 @ 6:10pm
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Showing 1-15 of 144 comments
Orf BC Aug 16, 2015 @ 6:22pm 
Will you supply keys to past purchasers? Looking forward to playing through this again. Definitely one of the greats!
Pathborn  [developer] Aug 16, 2015 @ 9:00pm 
Yes, I will, but it will have to be done manually, I don't have an automated way to do it (and because sales on my site were so low -- I think only barely over a thousand people -- it shouldn't be too hard to do by email). So, after release, email me for a key (at, along with the name or email that you used to buy the game, and I'll send a key. I'll also put this information on the game's website after it's released.
I just sent an email. I bought it almost 6 years ago. Wow!! Congratulations :D
HappyWulf Aug 29, 2015 @ 8:38am 
I sen't an e-mail too. =3:fhappy:
MysticVoid7x9 Aug 30, 2015 @ 4:00pm 
I got the game from the old Impulse downloader before gamestop took them over.

I wonder if sending a copy of the game key that Impulse gives me would be good too for getting a steam key.
Last edited by MysticVoid7x9; Aug 30, 2015 @ 4:00pm
Pathborn  [developer] Aug 30, 2015 @ 4:24pm 
I actually don't have a record of those game keys (or a list of emails of people who bought it from Impulse), however, if you forward me the email you got when ordering it from Impulse that should be fine. Alternatively you could perhaps take a screenshot of your GameStop program with the game listed in it (it should still be accessible through that I think?).
MysticVoid7x9 Aug 30, 2015 @ 4:40pm 
I will take the screenshot and send another email. I tried to find a copy of my ordering information, but I have been unable to find it.
Last edited by MysticVoid7x9; Aug 30, 2015 @ 4:45pm
Pathborn  [developer] Aug 30, 2015 @ 4:41pm 
Alright, thanks!
MysticVoid7x9 Aug 30, 2015 @ 4:49pm 
I just found my way to the stardock site and found my order information there. I sent it to you as well in case you want to see it.

Edit: In case anyone else got this from impulse like I did then go here for your order information and login using your old impulse login. Gamestop won't have any order information from before they took over impulse.
Last edited by MysticVoid7x9; Aug 30, 2015 @ 4:56pm
sbszine Sep 2, 2015 @ 9:42pm 
It'd be great to see this on Mac and Linux too. Is a port possible?
Pathborn  [developer] Sep 3, 2015 @ 3:08am 
Yeah, as mentioned in my post about what is new (, the reason I got rid of the Windows-style pop-ups in favor of in-game menus is for preparation for a Mac/Linux release.

The reason it doesn't have ports yet is actually purely financial -- porting to Mac now requires a $100 a year Mac developer license (the engine won't allow you create a mac build without such a license), and porting to Linux requires that I buy the Linux module of Game Maker Studio (the engine the game is made in), which is also $100 (though that's only a one-time payment rather than yearly).

Because the game is *not* a huge seller (it only sold a few copies a month on my site in the last few years, and even its Steam release didn't go that well, so far -- if you look at the simultaneous number of players on Steam for instance, it's typically only around 5-10; right now it is 3, and there have been *zero* sales today so far, which is pretty bad for the fourth day of release) it's hard to justify those expenses for this game, small as they seem. So like, if the Mac and Linux sales are unlikely to exceed $100, paying $100 to port it to those platforms (as well as putting in the time it takes to test it on them) becomes a hurdle.

I'd still definitely like to do it when I have some extra money just as a convenience thing for customers who are on those platforms and as a learning experience for myself, but, it's very likely I'd just lose money from those ports, unless the game starts selling better. My guess would be the earliest I could do those is by early 2016, if the game's sales are good in Sept/Oct. Otherwise it may have to wait longer until I can afford those fees more easily.

(I also realize the poor sales are probably not due to the game's quality, but simply due to how many indie games are released on steam nowadays: 20+ were released on the same day Immortal Defense was. So consequently each release gets very little press coverage or attention--not a single game journalism site has mentioned this release so far, even though I emailed review copies to all the major ones (with a custom email specific for each editor/writer, too). But I still also blame myself for not doing as much promotion/marketing as I could be doing.)

tl;dr -- if the game starts selling better I can port it to those earlier, otherwise it'll have to wait.
Last edited by Pathborn; Sep 3, 2015 @ 3:12am
glub ♥Linux Sep 3, 2015 @ 5:10pm 
Hey, thanks for the honest reply! :)

Hopefully the game will sell better in the near future.
Perhaps the price point is a little too high? Just a thought.
The thing that would make me hesitate in purchasing the game (aside from the lack of Linux build of course) is that I don't understand the game mechanics at all after watching the promo video and the screenshots. I don't feel particularly drawn to it at all. You might want to make a second video explaining (briefly and clearly) what the game is all about.
Good luck! :stars:
Pathborn  [developer] Sep 3, 2015 @ 6:40pm 
The game has been many different prices; $23 in 2007, $15 in 2009, and pay what you want with a $1.75 minimum since around 2011. Generally the higher the price, the more copies were sold (despite what you might expect). I think it has to do with the perception of quality. So I'm trying $10 now and seeing how that works. In any case, this game probably has the most content of any TD game on Steam that I know of* (in terms of game / story length and number of levels, anyway), and if it were any lower than this, it'd sort of make any future Steam sales feel meaningless (because half off or 75% off of a $5 game doesn't feel as much of a deal as half or 75% off of a $10 game, at least subjectively to me).

I think it's fine that some people are not drawn to the game, since it isn't going to be for everyone. I think the issue wasn't that people saw the store page and decided not to buy it (which is fine, that's kind of expected), but that almost nobody saw the store page at all (because there were 20 games released on Steam that day, and because new games no longer all appear on the front page under new releases).

The trailer video is kind of designed to be intentionally confusing, partly because I want people to be intrigued by the game. If it was too clear what the game is all about, that would ruin a lot of the surprise and discovery. I also kind of feel that blaming the trailer is kind of a low-hanging fruit, because, an interesting thing is, the trailer only has 250 views, and the game is approaching 200 sales. That means that almost everyone who watched the trailer bought the game, which is kind of impressive if you think about it (typically the ratio is much more in favor of a lot of views for a trailer with fewer people buying it). So at least in terms of that ratio I think the trailer is more effective than most game trailers.

So I guess to me the major issue seems to be a lack of press coverage; when Immortal Defense was first released in 2007, it had reviews on about 20-30 game sites (such as Destructoid, , etc. etc.). This new release on Steam had zero. It feels as if it's much harder for indie games to get covered in the press in 2015 than in 2007 unless you spend a lot of time networking and building relationships with journalists and so on, which isn't something I've spent much time on.

*One exception I can think of: Defender's Quest may be longer than Immortal Defense. That one's probably my favorite TD on Steam, and its developer told me once on Twitter that my game was part of his influence when making it.
Last edited by Pathborn; Sep 3, 2015 @ 6:45pm
glub ♥Linux Sep 4, 2015 @ 5:10am 
Thanks for taking the time to write this. :)

Do you know if the people who bought the game at the highest price would also praise the game as much as people who bought it as a lower price? Sometimes, price-points also taint people's judgement of a game after purchase, and it may not entice them into recommending it / speak about it afterwards if the game doesn't match their expectations (not pointing at user reviews).

I think you are right about indie games today. There are so many games released these days, it's become harder to get noticed.

Have you considered contacting video-game players that post videos on Youtube? Sending them keys should result in more coverage. For example, I'm thinking about Nothernlion, Kate LovelyMomo and their friends (right side bar) or any Youtube famous personality really.
Pathborn  [developer] Sep 4, 2015 @ 8:24am 
The price affecting recommendations isn't something I've heard discussed, and I'm not sure how to measure it. At least in my own experience though, when I like a game and would recommend it, but if its price is somewhat high, I might just tell people to wishlist it and get it on sale (for instance, I bought Fallout 3 for $50 when it first came out on Steam, and people asked if I'd recommend it, and I told them that even if they can't afford the $50 they should get it when it goes on sale).

I do plan on sending keys to YouTubers, yeah, although from what I have heard they often get dozens of games submitted to them each day, and that sending keys to them is like trying to play the lottery (but still worth doing, since it doesn't cost me anything to do so except the time it takes to look up their channel, find their email, and write an email). I've been planning on doing that, but it's a time-consuming process, particularly if I want to watch their videos first and become familiar with them to see if they cover similar games.
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