The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt

The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt

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woof Sep 21, 2016 @ 3:40am
Why is everyone so opposed to Ciri being the Protagonist for the Witcher game?
Everytime i see this brought up, it seems like it gets shot down immediately? Why? I just don't get it. It would feel so damn right to be able to play her, as Geralts story comes to a close, her story seem like it's just about to begin.
Last edited by woof; Sep 21, 2016 @ 3:46am
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woof Sep 27, 2016 @ 6:25pm 
Originally posted by Jack:
She is the female Anakin 2.0. Mary Sue character in a low fantasy world. I never understood why sapkowski created her. He is known to make fun of fantasy tropes in his books and makes fun of them and then creates this character. Just to create urgency in the main arc of the story?

I haven't read the books but i'm a fan of the games since 2007 and i have heard that she comes off as less bland there.

Maybe you should read the books? ofc you don't understand why Sapkowski created her as a character if you haven't :) (just a suggestion).

To even suggest book-Ciri as a mary sue is laughable really, some of the ♥♥♥♥ that happens there is pretty ♥♥♥♥ed up.

Now game-Ciri is another matter, and i won't bash you for calling her Mary Sue, as i'm pretty sure you're just jumping train and calling her something you don't really understand what is, because everybody else does it.

The typical main interpretations of a mary sue are these:
- everybody loves the chracter without reason
- she possess not-well-understood unique powers, that saves the world
- she never fails at anything

Only one of these interpretetations hold true in Ciri's regard, and it's a poor claim to be made, due to Ciri's lack of screen time, and only really appearing around the time where it is actually demanded of her to do what (her offspring actually was supposed to do, but CDRED retconned that) she had to do.

If you believe all 3 apply to her, then you haven't really thought things through, or you simply haven't played the game to it's fullest content. It seems like everybody loves her, but that is FAR from the truth. Fact is, she is not a celebrity, the whole world doesn't love her unconditionally, thus she can't be that type of mary sue. There is VERY good reason her family would love and adore her (Geralt, Yennefer, Triss, Vesemir, Lambert and Eskel). They grew up together, that's more than enough reasons. Remember everybody else is actually there for Geralt's sake, not for Ciri's. (characters that don't love her or are merely using her = Avallac'h, Philipa, Emhyr (if we we're to include book-Ciri, then this list would be way too long))

Now unto the second point, which i can understand why a lot of people point out, but is also false. There is a hefty backstory on how her powers came into being, and there have been several predecessors before her, and she can also pass on the power aswell. Thus it just simply cannot become an argument for Mary Sue Tropes. And if you really do want to go there, then if Ciri is a mary sue, then pretty much any protagonist(whoops, remember that mary sue only actually applies to protagonists (which she isen't in the games, guess we should analyze geralt instead)) with any special abillity is a mary sue.

The third point is the only one single argument that holds any water at all. Her flaws leads to success. However, it's only actually observed twice in the game(Kaer Morhen and Imlerith), however could be explained as time constraints from CDRED's side of things, and the fact that we're playing a game, and the narrative is/would come to a dead stop if anything failed there. Though this doesn't excuse it, i'll admit. It's easily rectified though, and can quickly be redeemed by slightly better plot writing.

All of these claims quickly become a whole lot weaker, when we remember that she can actually die. This is the one thing you don't want happening to the person you're trying to paint a mary sue.

Calling protagonists mary sue without ample thought behind those claims is becoming a daily life trope in-and-of itself. It's ridiculous, and is commonly done merely to trigger people (congratz, you triggered me real good).

If you want to, then we can start analyzing Geralt. You'll be surprised how much he can be interpretated as the near-ultimate Gary Sue of Videogaming.

However, just remember, there is not a set-definition, of what a Mary Sue actually is. Comparing her to Anakin is pretty unfair. Lucas explaination for Anakin's powers were merely: "hurr durr midichlorians....", which is far from how deep the explaination is for Ciri's powers.
woof Sep 27, 2016 @ 6:26pm 
Originally posted by ♈ Zoa ♈:
Don't see her using her powers? are you mad? during the last mission you were litterally 1 hitting wild hunt specters.

You should read before you post. Epilogue =/= last mission.
Last edited by woof; Sep 27, 2016 @ 6:26pm
dasdasdasd Sep 27, 2016 @ 6:42pm 
her combat sucks, no parrying or sidestepping
BuzzardBee Sep 27, 2016 @ 7:10pm 
Originally posted by dasdasdasd:
her combat sucks, no parrying or sidestepping

Her Blink ability trumps parrying and sidestepping since it makes it impossible for her to get hit.
Camelots Sep 27, 2016 @ 7:16pm 
Well depending on which ending was canon (I'd think the witcher ending was, but I haven't read the books and not even sure if the books are technically canon for the game), I'd like to know how exactly she got back from (defeating if you'll even call it that really) the white frost, if she didn't use her powers to teleport back. I just finished my first play through a few hours ago, and the portal she used to get to it closed before she got back. I just assumed she teleported back herself.

I haven't bothered checking any projekt statements on this, so I might just be shooting blanks here, but I would assume she still has her powers to get her back since she didn't step back through the same portal.
dasdasdasd Sep 27, 2016 @ 7:17pm 
Originally posted by BuzzardBee:
Originally posted by dasdasdasd:
her combat sucks, no parrying or sidestepping

Her Blink ability trumps parrying and sidestepping since it makes it impossible for her to get hit.
it becomes boring shes basically immortal with infinite mobility and you hav eto wait to use blink id rather just sidestep than blink
jss1138 Sep 27, 2016 @ 7:51pm 
Originally posted by Zappieroth132:
How do I use it?


Click the Formatting Help button to the left of the Post Comment button.
BuzzardBee Sep 27, 2016 @ 7:54pm 
Originally posted by dasdasdasd:
Originally posted by BuzzardBee:

Her Blink ability trumps parrying and sidestepping since it makes it impossible for her to get hit.
it becomes boring shes basically immortal with infinite mobility and you hav eto wait to use blink id rather just sidestep than blink

Well hardly immortal but yes she's so overpowered she is boring and thankfully we only get to be her a few times in the game which is why most people would not like to see her as the central character for a new game.
woof Sep 28, 2016 @ 12:23am 
Originally posted by Camelots:
Well depending on which ending was canon (I'd think the witcher ending was, but I haven't read the books and not even sure if the books are technically canon for the game), I'd like to know how exactly she got back from (defeating if you'll even call it that really) the white frost, if she didn't use her powers to teleport back. I just finished my first play through a few hours ago, and the portal she used to get to it closed before she got back. I just assumed she teleported back herself.

I haven't bothered checking any projekt statements on this, so I might just be shooting blanks here, but I would assume she still has her powers to get her back since she didn't step back through the same portal.

well, we don't really know how she stopped the white frost anyway, could have been something that wasen't instantanous. You do have a point though.

Originally posted by BuzzardBee:
Originally posted by dasdasdasd:
it becomes boring shes basically immortal with infinite mobility and you hav eto wait to use blink id rather just sidestep than blink

Well hardly immortal but yes she's so overpowered she is boring and thankfully we only get to be her a few times in the game which is why most people would not like to see her as the central character for a new game.

I think i've said this before in the thread, but i can't be bothered to check.

Please remember Ciri's gameplay segments we're meant to drive the narrative. There is THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of ways that CDRED could spin the game gameplay wise to make Ciri's combat interesting and entertaining. Her current few tidbits of gameplay we're directly designed for small amounts of gameplay.

If we got a game with her, then her combat system would ATLEAST be as complex and content-filled as Geralts, if not even more.


BuzzardBee Sep 28, 2016 @ 12:46am 
The problem is CDPR. They had 14 years to work on the storyline for all three games and this is what they came up with. Give them another 20 and I doubt we'd get anything much better.
[deleted] Jun 16, 2018 @ 10:06pm 
It just don't work
EelKat Jun 18, 2018 @ 10:53am 
Originally posted by woof:
Originally posted by Suicide xD:
She is not a witcher. She is trained in their ways. She uses a silver sword and hunts monsters, but she technically isn't a witcher. Cdpr basically sets up a story with Lambert and Kiera.
And no that's not my way of thinking. It is stated countless times in the books and in the games that ciri is tied to Geralt and vice versa... They could make a game with ciri. But it would be a mess and probably ruin the story... Just leave it.

I don't think that merely her not having undergone mutations justifies her not being a witcher. She calls herself a witcher, and geralt calls her a witcher. Lambert and Eskel calls her one of their own.

I'm sorry, have you not read the books?

Ciri was CREATED by Avallac'h, a mutant himself (him being the only white skinned blue eyed blond among the black skinned, black haired, yellow eyed Aen Elle, who are sadly white, not black in the game, which removes the whole racist battle between him and Eredin,,, the Aen Elle are Drow in the books, not High Elves like they are in the game)... Ciri is a half-Elf mutant, built in the lab of The Knowing One, (Crevan aka Avallac'h) a mega brained Psion, who's hell bent undoing the damage he did when he, 2,000 years ago, built all those portals of his all over the damned universe.

Ciri does not know Avallac'h created her in his lab, until she reads his journals in his other lab on Skellige, which is why she trashes said lab.

Seriously, read the books. Ciri is way more of a mutant then Geralt will ever hope to be.

Originally posted by woof:
Originally posted by Suicide xD:
She is too overpowered... Have fun fighting drowners and nekkers as ciri. She can't drink potions and she isn't actually a witcher... They can't go back and tell her story since we already know the outcome... It's a bad idea. A Lambert or Eskel game would be good though
Or that cat witcher you meet Gaurtam or something. He is in some trouble that could make a good game

If that's the only reason then it's kinda a bad reason. Avallac'h already states in the game that her powers are directly connected to the White Frost, and we don't see her using her powers at any moment in the epilogue, which may or may not suggest that her powers are weakened or gone.

No. He caused the White Frost when he enslaved the unicorns and forced them to open portals between world, which he did because the Aen elle food supply (humans) was running low and they needed to find more worlds with more humans.

He is Aen Saervhrn, a Psion with naturally mutated blood. After he realized the damage he caused by creating the portals, he became desperate to save the worlds he'd inadvertently destroyed, but the unicorns revolted and stranded him on the world of the Aen Elle. It took him 400 years to learn how to open the portals on his own without the help of the unicorns.

Then he the Aen Ithlinnespeath (Ithlinne's Prophecy) and realized he was the elf mentioned in it, so he became obsessed with finding the mother of the Child of the Elder Blood, and decided to create her in his lab. He started keeping Aen Elle slaves and breeding them, while cross cloning his own Alder Blood into them. After 700 years of breeding mutated Elves and cloning his own blood into them, he created Lara Dorren. Lara Dorren was to marry him, he and she to be the couple who would create the Child of the Elder Blood, which would become god of the universe and defeat the White Frost.

Lara cheated on Avallac'h with a human and gave birth to a half-Elf, but both she and her lover were murdered. Avallac'h was there and rescued the baby taking it to it's human relatives to be raised.

Avallac'h then spent the next 200 years, obsessively stalking the children of Lara's child, waiting for another to be born with his Alder Blood gene, which was Ciri, thus why he kidnapped her, took her too his lab and started his breeding and cloning experiments up all over again... and in the books he's literally breeding her (♥♥♥♥♥♥ her) and beating the hell out of her when she tried to get him to stop. Avallac'h is a psychopathic mad scientist villain in the books. He's not anything like the sweet grouchy Elf we see n the game.

Avallac'h believes she is more powerful them him (he being the most powerful elder brain psion of all the known multiverse), he believes this, because she is a genetic hybrid created from his own blood, then crossed back with a 2nd being (Lara) who also has his blood.

Read the novels. The game assumes you have already read the novels, so assumes you already know this info, thus the game does not tell you this info outright.

Ciri's powers are connected to Avallac'h, not the White Frost, which is why he's the only one who knows how to train her to use her powers.



Last edited by EelKat; Jun 18, 2018 @ 1:20pm
BuzzardBee Jun 18, 2018 @ 1:01pm 
Originally posted by EelKat:
Originally posted by woof:

I don't think that merely her not having undergone mutations justifies her not being a witcher. She calls herself a witcher, and geralt calls her a witcher. Lambert and Eskel calls her one of their own.

I'm sorry, have you not read the books?

Ciri was CREATED by Avallac'h, a mutant himself (him being the only white skinned blue eyed blond among the black skinned, black haired, yellow eyed Aen Elle, who are sadly white, not black in the game, which removes the whole racist battle between him and Eredin,,, the Aen Elle are Drow in the books, not High Elves like they are in the game)... Ciri is a half-Elf mutant, built in the lab of The Knowing One, a mega brained Psion, who's hell bent undoing the damage he did when he, 2,000 years ago, built all over the damned universe.

Ciri does not know Avallac'h created her in his lab, until she reads his journals in his other lab on Skellige, which is why she trashes said lab.

Seriously, read the books. Ciri is way more of a mutant then Geralt will ever hope to be.

Seriously, what the hell are you smoking?? Where the hell are you getting all this? And you're telling HIM to read the books? Maybe you should take your own advice.

Avallac'h has spent the past 200+ years trying to create a pureblood elf with the Elder Blood. Caranthir is his best creation. He had ZERO, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with creating Ciri. OMFG. Ciri is Pavetta and Emhyr's natural daughter. And yes, she does have elf blood in her. But then so does Yennefer. It's not that uncommon.

Jeez.

What she learned in the lab was not that he had created her but of his experiments. The truth is, the Wild Hunt has been chasing after her because it was all his idea -- to mate her with their king so that the offspring could be used to open the gates on their world and create a portal large enough for their armies to pass through and invade the game world. The offspring is believed to be even more powerful than the mother.

Emhyr had the same notion when he hired bounty hunters to track down his own daughter so he could marry and father a child by her.

The reason why Ciri (AND Geralt) trashed the lab was because Avallac'h had been keeping secrets from her and, more importantly, they all were extremely upset at the lab assistant who had made it very clear she had nothing but contempt for humans and utterly despied Ciri.

Originally posted by woof:
If that's the only reason then it's kinda a bad reason. Avallac'h already states in the game that her powers are directly connected to the White Frost, and we don't see her using her powers at any moment in the epilogue, which may or may not suggest that her powers are weakened or gone.

No. He caused the White Frost when he enslaved the unicorns and forced them to open portals between world, which he did because the Aen elle food supply (humans) was running low and they needed to find more worlds with more humans.

You are certifiably insane. All of that is wrong. During the Conjunction of the Spheres, some of the elves left their homeworld and used portals to go to a new world. They called themselves the Aen Elle. They are distant cousins to the Aen Seidhe. The new world they settled on was inhabited by humans and unicorns. They fought them both for control of the world and completely eradicated all of the humans there. They built their capital, Tir na Lia, and then went in search of slaves to serve them, creating the Red Riders, better known as the Wild Hunt who took on the appearance of specters to better frighten and intimidate those they would capture.

They had forced the unicorns to open the Gate of the Worlds known as Ard Gaeth -- which gave them access to any world they chose so that they could pillage as they pleased. So the Red Riders set out to gather slaves from anywhere they wanted, slaying any who got in their way.

After some time, the unicorns managed to take the Gate away from them, or rather the power that sustained the Gate. Without the Gate, they were unable to travel through time and space until they were able to recover some of that power through special mages known as Navigators who could open portals for them. But these portals were very limited in nature and could only transport a small number of projections.

Ciri is a direct descendant of Lara Dorren, King Auberon's daughter. Auberon was the Aen Elle king. Ciri, like Lara, possesses the Elder Blood and is a powerful Source. The Aen Elle wanted her so they could harness her power to open a portal large enough for their entire army, just as the old Gate would have done. They wanted her child because they reasoned it would be even more powerful than she is.

It was during her travels to other worlds, that she first encountered Avallac'h. He brought her back to the Aen Elle world where she became their prisoner. He had promised her that if she complied, they would set her free. She agreed but Auberon felt disgusted by Ciri since she was human and humans are regarded by the elves as little more than animals. He could not bring himself to be with her.

Spoilers coming: [/quote[when auberon made it clear that he would not be able to impregnate ciri because he found her revolting, that's when eredin came up with his "aphrodisiac" which turned out to be a poison[/spoiler] and that's what caused Avallac'h to change his stance from being the one who came up with the idea in the first place. He told Ciri the truth and allowed her to escape. Ciri's friend, Inhuarraquax, the unicorn, helped her escape the Aen Elle world and the Wild Hunt has been in pursuit ever since.

He is Aen Saervhrn, a Psion with naturally mutated blood. After he realized the damage he caused by creating the portals, he became desperate to save the worlds he'd inadvertently destroyed, but the unicorns revolted and stranded him on the world of the Aen Elle. It took him 400 years to learn how to open the portals on his own without the help of the unicorns.

Now, back to Avallac'h, yes, he is an Aen Saevherne, but all that means is that he's a sage and not merely a mage. It does not mean he has mutated blood, natural or otherwise. It means that he possesses a vast knowledge of many subjects, most notably the genealogy of Elder Blood. They can also exhibit prophetic or oracular powers, meaning they can sometimes see glimpses into the future. They can also see the past. They have mastery over all forms of magic

Ida Emean aep Sivney and Lara Dorren, as well as King Aurberon Muircetach were all Aen Saevherne.

Now, about that White Frost. Wow, you are really out there if you believe that Avallac'h was responsible for it. It is a phenomenon that results in the freezing of an entire planet. Think: FROST AGE. Supposedly, it's nothing more than that, meaning it's not nefariously bent on evil, desiring to destroy everything in its path because it's having a really bad day. It's believed to an inevitable end to all worlds, but its cause, if there is one, is unknown. So I really don't know where the hell you are getting your ideas from but it sure as hell isn't Sapkowski's books.

Then he the Aen Ithlinnespeath (Ithlinne's Prophecy) and realized he was the elf mentioned in it, so he became obsessed with finding the mother of the Child of the Elder Blood, and decided to create her in his lab. He started keeping Aen Elle slaves and breeding them, while cross cloning his own Alder Blood into them. After 700 years of breeding mutated Elves and cloning his own blood into them, he created Lara Dorren. Lara Dorren was to marry him, he and she to be the couple who would create the Child of the Elder Blood, which would become god of the universe and defeat the White Frost.

Again, WRONG. No elf is mentioned as being the one tied to the Prophecy. And he was never obsessed with finding the MOTHER -- that would have been Pavetta, Ciri's mother. No, he became convinced that finding Ciri and mating her with their king would produce an offspring with even greater power that could open the Gates and allow them to travel where they wished once more.

He never added his own blood as he does not possess Elder Blood. There would be absolutely no point to that. And he'd only spent the last 200 years. Is all this some really bad translations that you've been exposed to because whoever was responsible for it should be shot. They didn't get a single thing right and have woefully led you the wrong way at every turn.

Only thing you got right was that Lara Dorren was in fact supposed to marry Avallac'h at one point but she fell in love with Cregennan of Lod, a human mage. Funny how you failed to mention that Avallac'h did in fact create Caranthir Ar-Feiniel, once known as the Golden Child. But he used elven couples who were gifted with the ability to manipulate time and space. He never used his own genes or blood in any of his experiments. Caranthir was a powerful navigator.

Ithlinne's Prophecy is slowly coming to fruition as several kingdoms are noticing a cooling trend that has begun. It is estimated that within 3,000 years, they will be buried by glaciers and all life will cease to exist on their planet.

Avallac'h had nothing to do with creating neither the Prophecy nor the White Frost. And he never tried to save any world. For the unicorns to have revolted, they would have had to be subservient to the elves which they never were. They were always at war with the elves. Again, what the hell are you reading? So, according to you, they stranded him on his own homeworld? Jeez. And no, he never was able to open the Gate on his own. His powers are not great enough and he does not posses the Elder Blood. Again, just incredible how many things one person can get so wrong in a single post.

Lara cheated on Avallac'h with a human and gave birth to a half-Elf, but both she and her lover were murdered. Avallac'h was there and rescued the baby taking it to it's human relatives to be raised.

No. This did not happen.

Avallac'h then spent the next 200 years, obsessively stalking the children of Lara's child, waiting for another to be born with his Alder Blood gene, which was Ciri, thus why he kidnapped her, took her too his lab and started his breeding and cloning experiments up all over again... and in the books he's literally breeding her (♥♥♥♥♥♥ her) and beating the hell out of her when she tried to get him to stop. Avallac'h is a psychopathic mad scientist villain in the books. He's not anything like the sweet grouchy Elf we see n the game.

He spent those 200 years experimenting and trying to create a pureblood elf with Elder Blood. Avallac'h does not possess the Elder Blood. He never used his own blood or anything from himself in his experiments. And no, he never ♥♥♥♥♥ Ciri. He never beat her. Plenty of others have but Avallac'h did not.

Avallac'h believes she is more powerful them him (he being the most powerful elder brain psion of all the known multiverse), he believes this, because she is a genetic hybrid created from his own blood, then crossed back with a 2nd being (Lara) who also has his blood.

HE DOES NOT HAVE THE ELDER BLOOD! LARA DOES NOT HAVE HIS BLOOD EITHER. SHE WAS AUBERON'S DAUGHTER, NOT AVALLAC'H'S!

Read the novels. The game assumes you have already read the novels, so assumes you already know this info, thus the game does not tell you this info outright.

Please, for the love of all things holy, TAKE YOUR OWN FREAKING ADVICE.

Ciri's powers are connected to Avallac'h, not the White Frost, which is why he's the only one who knows how to train her to use her powers.

Ciri has no connection to either the White Frost nor Avallac'h. He knows how to train her because he is a sage.

SMFH
sjrekis Jun 19, 2018 @ 12:59am 
Originally posted by EelKat:

What low budget porn version of Witcher series did you watch? :steammocking:
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Date Posted: Sep 21, 2016 @ 3:40am
Posts: 89