Pillars of Eternity

Pillars of Eternity

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Castille Oct 3, 2017 @ 6:20am
One awful game design.
Camping and camping supplies. I....hate...it...so...much.
In fact so much that it's almost game breaking.

I have installed and uninstalled this game so many times, trying to acctually finish it, but i always get way to bored. And one of those reasons are camping.

I play as a wizard, and i do it solo. That's my style, and i like it.
Now to get back my spells i have to camp. Which is fine, if you have the supplies. Which you run out of fairly quickly because the DEVS decide to limit how many supplies you can carry with you.
So standing there with 2000 swords in my backpack, but i can only pack 4 damn picnic pies, why?

It's fun to decend down the catacombs, exploring and defeating monsters. But when the game forces you to regulary go up, buy some damn supplies and rest, then that is the time i start uninstalling this game.

And fine, i can accept the mechanic if there is truly a reason to have limited amount of camping supplies, but honestly, i don't see what the reason is.
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Showing 1-15 of 278 comments
aldinash Oct 3, 2017 @ 7:09am 
It's balance.

The Vancian (spells per rest ones) have much more powerful spells. The balance with them is that they run out. With unlimited supplies, you could do a fight, unload everything, rest, repeat.

This is exactly what used to happen with Baldur's Gate style games. It made the game trivial if you chose to do that, as it negated the weakness of the per rest caster. If your spells are more powerful with the downside of not always having them, and you remove the downside, you break the game.

In PoE, they chose to use camping supplies to balance that out. You have to make choices on when to rest, and that would typically lead to having to decide when it was worth it to use the spells.

Now, obviously, playing solo changes your personal dynamic and unlimited resting would be something that would be good for you in that situation. But, the game mechanics were not designed with solo play in mind.

Overall, limited rests in dungeons makes for more decision based gameplay. You can always rest at an Inn or once you have it, the Stronghold.
tommy_beast Oct 3, 2017 @ 7:25am 
Lower the difficulty setting and stfu.
Castille Oct 3, 2017 @ 7:38am 
Originally posted by aldinash:
It's balance.

The Vancian (spells per rest ones) have much more powerful spells. The balance with them is that they run out. With unlimited supplies, you could do a fight, unload everything, rest, repeat.

This is exactly what used to happen with Baldur's Gate style games. It made the game trivial if you chose to do that, as it negated the weakness of the per rest caster. If your spells are more powerful with the downside of not always having them, and you remove the downside, you break the game.

In PoE, they chose to use camping supplies to balance that out. You have to make choices on when to rest, and that would typically lead to having to decide when it was worth it to use the spells.

Now, obviously, playing solo changes your personal dynamic and unlimited resting would be something that would be good for you in that situation. But, the game mechanics were not designed with solo play in mind.

Overall, limited rests in dungeons makes for more decision based gameplay. You can always rest at an Inn or once you have it, the Stronghold.

Well that explains the mechanics.
But for my gameplay, it's just an extreme inconvenice, as i have to run back to the inn.
But i see your point.
Castille Oct 3, 2017 @ 7:39am 
Originally posted by tommy_beast:
Lower the difficulty setting and stfu.

You sir, have not read the topic. It's not about the game being hard, it's about the game forcing you to do something that is not enjoyable.
Last edited by Castille; Oct 3, 2017 @ 7:39am
ColeTrain1034 Oct 3, 2017 @ 8:16am 
Keep in mind, the game is not built with the intention of a solo run. That's not to say you can't do it - and that's totally your prerogative. They have the achievements for solo runs because it's definitely a viable option. However, it's more of a doable challenge than what the developers intended to be the actual drive of the game and the mechanics are based around a full party setup on Normal or Hard difficulty. So, like aldinash said, they implement the resting system to keep you from spamming every battle with twenty-five fireballs and breezing through the game. Obviously that becomes inconvenient when you are playing with just one caster. But that's probably just going to be an inconvenience you have to accept when you play in a way that wasn't necessarily considered "canon" (I use that term loosely) during development. Once again, not a criticism towards you; just an explanation of the added frustration.
Last edited by ColeTrain1034; Oct 3, 2017 @ 8:18am
so let me get this straight... you hate the game because you cant stockpile camping supplies? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

love the logic behind that.

well, loser, wouldnt hoarding camping supplies unbalance the game? that would eliminate any need for inns and resting. talk about game breaking.

and ive never heard anyone whine about carrying 2000 pieces of loot. its free gold lmao. cash that junk in and buy some weapons... i dont think you know how these games work, buddy.

and lastly, if youre constantly burning through 4 camp pies that just says youre bad... first time i played i dont believe i ever ran out of supplies, this is my first crpg btw. this games not for you.
ColeTrain1034 Oct 3, 2017 @ 9:09am 
Originally posted by burnt_RAM_:
and lastly, if youre constantly burning through 4 camp pies that just says youre bad... first time i played i dont believe i ever ran out of supplies, this is my first crpg btw. this games not for you.

Were you playing on solo with a caster? Because if not, this comment is unnecessary and seems a lot like you're just trying to brag. In general, try to be a little more helpful next time you comment on someone's thread, instead of being accusatory and rude.
The unlimited Stash is a convenience. People who collect all loot they can find, would not stop doing that, if the Stash were not unlimited. They would do exactly that, return to town, sell everything, then pick up the next loot. Rinse repeat.

The camping supplies, on the other hand, are a special design decision that is supposed to stop players from spam-resting inside dungeons. With limited camping supplies, you need to decide more carefully when to cast per rest spells and when to use per rest abilities. That's fine for a party base playthrough. You can finish the game with resting only a very few times - there's even a Steam achievement for that!
Castille Oct 3, 2017 @ 9:30am 
Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:
The unlimited Stash is a convenience. People who collect all loot they can find, would not stop doing that, if the Stash were not unlimited. They would do exactly that, return to town, sell everything, then pick up the next loot. Rinse repeat.

The camping supplies, on the other hand, are a special design decision that is supposed to stop players from spam-resting inside dungeons. With limited camping supplies, you need to decide more carefully when to cast per rest spells and when to use per rest abilities. That's fine for a party base playthrough. You can finish the game with resting only a very few times - there's even a Steam achievement for that!

But it does not make any sense.
Because if i run out of supplies, then i leave the dungeon, take a trip to the inn and buy more supplies, and then go back.

The maximum supplies does not in anyway limit the actual progress, it simply just slows it down with a mechanic that is just not fun.
But as a previous poster pointed out, why the mechanic is there. I do understand, and accept that the games core mechanic was designed around having a party of more then one character. I'm just saying that the mechanic does not really "add" anything more then slowing down the game.
Last edited by Castille; Oct 3, 2017 @ 9:34am
Castille Oct 3, 2017 @ 9:31am 
Originally posted by burnt_RAM_:
so let me get this straight... you hate the game because you cant stockpile camping supplies? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

love the logic behind that.

well, loser, wouldnt hoarding camping supplies unbalance the game? that would eliminate any need for inns and resting. talk about game breaking.

and ive never heard anyone whine about carrying 2000 pieces of loot. its free gold lmao. cash that junk in and buy some weapons... i dont think you know how these games work, buddy.

and lastly, if youre constantly burning through 4 camp pies that just says youre bad... first time i played i dont believe i ever ran out of supplies, this is my first crpg btw. this games not for you.

Feel free to modify your response after you played with a solo char, on POTD difficulty as a wizard, as i am doing. I'll wait...
Last edited by Castille; Oct 3, 2017 @ 9:34am
Originally posted by Castille:
But it does not make any sense.
Because if i run out of supplies, then i leave the dungeon, take a trip to the inn and buy more supplies, and then go back.
That's why it makes sense. It's the penalties you need to take for travelling to the next inn/merchant and for expiring inn based resting bonuses when resting using camping material. Travel time also has an impact on stronghold visitors.

Originally posted by Castille:
The maximum supplies does not in anyway limit the actual progress, it simply just slows it down
You decide whether to rest excessively.

Originally posted by Castille:
with a mechanic that is just not fun.
It's your decision, if you inflict pain on yourself by choosing a solo character that depends on per rest abilities/spells so much instead of choosing a different class or a party.

Originally posted by Castille:
I'm just saying that the mechanic does not really "add" anything more then slowing down the game.
Wrong. Resting using camping materials gives access to Survival skill based bonuses some people would call "over-powered". It's your choice if you insist on travelling a lot to restock your camping supplies, so you can rest excessively.
Originally posted by Castille:
Originally posted by burnt_RAM_:
so let me get this straight... you hate the game because you cant stockpile camping supplies? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

love the logic behind that.

well, loser, wouldnt hoarding camping supplies unbalance the game? that would eliminate any need for inns and resting. talk about game breaking.

and ive never heard anyone whine about carrying 2000 pieces of loot. its free gold lmao. cash that junk in and buy some weapons... i dont think you know how these games work, buddy.

and lastly, if youre constantly burning through 4 camp pies that just says youre bad... first time i played i dont believe i ever ran out of supplies, this is my first crpg btw. this games not for you.

Feel free to modify your response after you played with a solo char, on POTD difficulty as a wizard, as i am doing. I'll wait...

beat the game many a time on POTD. no complaints. try again?
Last edited by Phantom Supersystem; Oct 3, 2017 @ 12:17pm
ColeTrain1034 Oct 3, 2017 @ 4:08pm 
Originally posted by burnt_RAM_:
Originally posted by Castille:

Feel free to modify your response after you played with a solo char, on POTD difficulty as a wizard, as i am doing. I'll wait...

beat the game many a time on POTD. no complaints. try again?

Beating it on PotD and beating it on PotD with a solo caster are two very different things. If you've beaten it with a solo caster, now's your time to speak up.
Last edited by ColeTrain1034; Oct 3, 2017 @ 4:09pm
Fiach Oct 3, 2017 @ 4:38pm 
The game has so many difficulty permutations that this is a pointless complaint, you can make it as hard or easy as you want.
Mortavius Oct 3, 2017 @ 7:13pm 
Originally posted by Castille:
Originally posted by tommy_beast:
Lower the difficulty setting and stfu.

You sir, have not read the topic. It's not about the game being hard, it's about the game forcing you to do something that is not enjoyable.

Not that I want to agree with Tommy Beast, because I believe his comment was unnecessarily inflammatory and obnoxious, but I think he was pointing out one thing you may have overlooked.

With different difficulty settings in PoE, the maximum amount of camping supplies you can carry changes. I think (off the top of my head) that the easiest difficulty allows you to carry a maximum of 8.

Of course, it lowers the difficulty of everything else, so this "solution" may not work for you for other reasons. But I hadn't seen it mentioned here, so I thought I'd share it.

Ultimately, while I support your desire to play the game a certain way, I think you need to realize (and I think you have) that you are playing the game in a way that it wasn't designed around. That's okay, but it also means that systems that were designed around a full party may not work as well with a single character.
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Date Posted: Oct 3, 2017 @ 6:20am
Posts: 278