I still can't wrap my head around this

[BlackBadger]

Hi All, I'm a big fan of the Close Combat series I had this sitting on the HDD for a while and could never get into it because it caused me physical pain to understand the UI.... but I persevered and got a bit further now I can start an operation and deploy units etc. I read the manual and whilst it explains some things I'm at a loss as to how to actually manage my units properly.

For instance how do I order my infantry units to suppress an area while others are advancing around it? The units also seem to take their own path whenever I order them to move into an area. It's more like football manager in that you tell them what to do but they do their own thing. Am I missing something? I'm normally not put off by games that are difficult to get into. I do flight sims, Hearts of Iron etc. etc. But this here takes the cake.

Someone help please.

Badger

[Spud]

First of all every player has experienced the frustration and confusion that you now feel, the game is difficult to understand at first and the manuul is less than adequate. In a while this thread will be filled with replies that will shed light on it as helpful veterans come to try and help you get more out of the game.

While you wait have a look at this http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3116240

It's a bit out of date and incomplete but there is a wealth of helpful info there and after reading through it you will gain a deeper insight into the game and the way some of its key features work. Also scan this forum as there is even more info to be found in the replies section.

[jcmiller101]

I played a lot of CC - one of my favorite series. GTOS doesn't have too much similarity in its core engine but some aspects of the GUI & order issuing system are similar in appearance.
I think that can confuse those of us who spent a lot of time with the CC game engine.
That said the nature of the AI & the idea of being a general is better realized in GTOS.

As a remote commander you must rely on the men to do their thing. The game thus tries to give the troops latitude to achieve the objectives you want to give them. They try to find the best solution given their situational awareness. (This is the ideal I think the devs strive for at least...)
There is more focus on planning & letting things play out than micro-management.

For suppression I use
- indirect fire called in by the appropriate commanders/spotters.
- targeting fire arcs & the 'target' tool to ensure troops will prioritize targets in a specific area.

This should be combined with the right click/space bar menu -

Attack - attack movement + dispersed line formation
Assault - attack movement + condensed line formation
Hidden move - Use terrain for concealment + move by bounds (short rushes)
Recon - a movement order which has movement priority
Hunt - a movement order which has fire priority
Defence - move defensively & take up defensive positions

I have used 'defence' to advance flanking units so they don't get too gung ho when facing unknown enemy concentrations. Mix & match & time delays will hopefully give you the correct formula.

As said elsewhere the quick battle environment is the ideal place to test tactics prior to the campaigns.

[FlashBurn]

Never try and micro manage your forces in GTOS. It always ends up a muddled mess. If you ever played soldier and gotten new conflicting orders flying at you it actually does end up as a soup sandwitch. Same happens in GTOS. Although probably not entirely intended. But the game is not designed or intended to micro manage accross the board. infantry just set a simple movement order or series of orders using Shift to do so. And stand back and let them do their thing for the most part.

Vehicles are little more mirco manage friendly. Well if using reverse command. The little backwards icon in the middle of the UI. That makes the vehicle back up like 50 meters or so.

BTW, the quick order panel is just different presets of the movement modifiers. So its handy, but using the correct modifers on the general UI does exactly the same thing.


In the end it does take a few plays to get it down. ONce there, there is no going back IMO. Well I cant seem to. This game is all about the tactics and not about a click fest.

[FlashBurn]

OH doh I forgot. you sort of can supress an area with fire. Only your Platoon lead or higher (sometimes artillery commands too) can set an area to shoot at. Its the circle cross thing. Any weapon such as mortars, field guns (these 2 will also do indirrect fire), vehicles, at guns, crew served machine guns, but generally NOT infanty will use it. With infantry they just sort of go, what? Waste my ammo... na. But if they do spot an enemy where you order a force fire it does seem to make em fire more. Or I am crazy on that one.

Oh and all that was covered. :D... well dika! ;D

[76561198070744080]

You can use the defense command(defend from the spot you want to fire from, also use the facing button to get them to all face towards the area to be brought under fire) and covered arcs with the priority target command to get your infantry to suppress an area, you can also give the command to defend "on" the enemy objective and your troops will move on the objective by leaps and bounds with 1/2 firing while the other 1/2 moves.

Mainly your suppressive fire weapons like off map arty, mortars and HMGs are best used for this purpose. The MGs and main gun on vehicles are good suppressive fire weapons also.
Select the leader and the indirect fire button, then select the area you want suppressed(Orange TRP) and any support weapons under that leaders command will fire on that area if not blocked by interdicting terrain features.

[76561198070744080]

"Vehicles are little more mirco manage friendly. Well if using reverse command. The little backwards icon in the middle of the UI. That makes the vehicle back up like 50 meters or so. "

This works for infantry units as well, They will also retreat back 50 meters and crawl if in sight of enemy units.

[BlackBadger]

thank you for all the pointers so far I'll give that a go.

Also.. I had the old AP game, but now I bought the GT version. I'm on 5.81 (2313) Is that the most recent one?

I've read somewhere that there is a free HD texture pack.. is that right?

And finally.. the voices... well let's just say they will need some getting used to, they are not the best. Is there a fan made voicepack or something to replace the default voices?

thanks to all!

[76561198070744080]

{HIVATKOZÁS TÖRÖLVE}http://www.graviteam.ua/tactics/gtos-hrt.html
FREE DEMO DLC "GTOS:HRT"
The Hi res demo only is for a few vehicles. And the full Hi Res. DLC still doesn't cover all the tanks or guns either. The only reason I added it to my game is because I was able to get it for free with some blue coins from Gamersgate.
The hi res isn't all that noticeable unless you get up very close and are taking screenshots.
The standard models are still very good though and better than most games except for maybe War Thunder Tanks and WoT.

There are no voice mods for this game. I mute the voices in the options menu. I don't like them either.
And your game looks current and up to date.

[FlashBurn]

If Gravi ever has extra cash around, better "dialog" and weapon sounds WOULD be nice.

[BlackBadger]

Ok thanks all, I'm figuring this out bit by bit. My next big question is how does the command system work on the battlefield. I've noticed units will sometimes not execute orders for no apparent reason, I figure because of lack of communication or some such. But am unclear about details.

Also what do the telephone guys squads do? How should I use them?

any insights appreciated.

[76561198070744080]

Leave the telephone guys under AI command, you can't control them. They will set up links to the HQs and indirect fire weapons and if the links are established they pass on info to help indirect weapons target enemy units more effeciently.

Depending on fatigue or morale or being out of voice range, your units may not follow orders or they may take awhile to carry them out if out of voice range as the game simulates a runner being sent to deliver the order on foot. Generally your leaders voice range is 50-100 meters depending on the noise level around the units because of incomming or out going fire.
The squads don't have radios except for some of the vehicles that squads are attached to and mainly rely on voice command and simple flares. If out of range it could take awhile to receive orders and process them and if other factors(Morale, fatigue, not enough command points and heavy casualties) are involved, they may just ignore the orders out right.

You may be able to micro manage your elite units and vehicles with radios to a degree, but everyone else is a crap shoot and it's best to give them simple orders and let them do their job and keep the micro managing of these units to a minimum, otherwise you will be spending alot of command points needlessly.

Another thing, you can disable the improved orders system(4.12) and it will make it a little easier to control your troops directly. disabling this option will eliminate the command bar.

And one more thing, leaders only command the units assigned to their platoon. A company commander only commands the HQ platoon, and direct links to the platoon commanders are for relaying info to help sight and target enemy units, usually the Co. Commander has some indirect on board weapons under his command that the platoon leaders can help direct.

[FlashBurn]

Another thing, you can disable the improved orders system(4.12) and it will make it a little easier to control your troops directly. disabling this option will eliminate the command bar.

I would recommend this if still in learn phase. The command bar adds a TON of tactics and thought put into the game...a good thing. IMO I really like it. BUT....when learning the game it might be a tad much on *some* of the campaigns where your troops are low skill and low moral. Picking say, a campaign where you get elite troops makes it easier. But if you pick soviet conscripts to learn on...my my! ;) You most certainly can pull out a win with such troops, but it take much more care in doing so. Really have to set em up for wins untill they get enough experience to become legit force to be reconded with. If they survive long enough to get the higher moral and experience, Soviet infantry are probably over all more effective in the early period of GTOS camapigns. This is do to the their bullet hose SMG's and alot of anti tank grenades (rpg-40 and KS bottles). Experinced soviet SMG troops are really freaking effective when used right.

[76561198070744080]

The improved orders system was incorporated for players who had pretty much mastered the game and started to complain about how stupid the AI was.
The AI wasn't stupid! The players had too much unrealistic control and situational awareness.

APOS started to go down the CM route by giving players direct command over everybody but realized that they couldn't program an AI to think like a human and most players wouldn't have a PC capable of storing all the memory that it would take to make an AI that efficient anyways.

So, the next step was to limit the player with the gods eye view from being every single leader on the map. This was a major step in the right direction!

This game is not a 1st person shooter or a squad leader game. it's more of a command an control tactical game from the officers or platoon leaders perspective.

If you want the Darth Vader control over most of your troops play CM.

[Spud]

That was something that took me a while to realise, i wasted a lot of time and got very frustrated trying to micro-manage everything. Once the penny dropped though the game made a lot more sense and it's actually more enjoyable and less stressful.

I now am most active beforea battle, positioning the troops and setting up initial orders etc, then sitting back and just watching how things unfold, I still issue orders during a battle but much less than i used to.

[76561198070744080]

If you're too busy micro managing everything, then it will pretty much destroy watching the battle unfold in all its graphic splendor.

The important thing about this game is it doesn't take much to play it once you master the basics. What is important is formulating a plan that isn't too complicated requiring extensive micro-management plus making sure that your leaders are able to effect your plan with the proper on and off board assets while maintaining your units in a cohesive manner.