How does the skill-advancement system really work?

[Aetrion]

I've started playing this game a bit and I've got some question about how the advencment system in the game works.

There seem to be two way of advancing a skill, by using it, and also by spending points into it when you level up.

However, there are some skills that never seem to actually go up by themselves, while others very happily stay topped off.

For example, my weapon skill pretty much always stays maxed out, completely by itself just from using the weapon. On the other hand, my armor skill never seems to go up by itself, even though I am getting hit a lot.

So that raises a few questions:

How do I know what skills will go up by themselves and what skills won't?

Am I wasting my advancement points if I spend them on skills that I can also raise by using?

Can I respec a character in case I already screwed it up?

Is there anything that keeps me from maxing out all skills that gain from usage without ever spending a single point in them?

[Col.Firefly]

I believe this is the same bug ported over from MMXII version.

They're meant to go up, but I have never seen the non-damage skills advance from use.

They should have just left it the way it was from CE, but that had it's weirdness too. At least this differentiates the classes a bit more.

Don't spend any points on skills that level over time. Use them.

You will see which skills advance pretty easily.

This game is from 2005. Forget respecs.

Probably not.

[Aetrion]

So the fact that armor skills just sit there and don't go up, or that my lockpicking skill never increases despite picking tons of locks is a bug?

Well crap, it'd be nice if they fixed that, because that feels kind of broken.

[Eric Draven]

I didnt notice that, glad you mentioned it..wonder which ones go up by their selfs, Would be nice to have access to a manual.

[Aetrion]

Yea, I've scoured the internet and let alone the fact that there is a version of this game with a completely different advancement system that came out first makes it nearly impossible to find any good information on how the system is supposed to work.

What I expect from the system at least is:

Armor skills go up when you get hit.
Lockpick/Disarm skills go up when you pick locks.
Magic Weapon skill goes up when you use magic weapons.

I mean these are skills you are constantly using, there is no reason why they shouldn't be going up.

[Chad "The King" ThunderCuck]

unless they have changed the way skills "work", increasing your skill levels shouldnt actually improve your damage/armor abilities anyways. in the last version, and all before it, you could use a hex editor to top out whatever skills you wanted, and there would be no difference in damage dealt or recieved.

[MegalomaniacNG]

Its intentional that not all skills improve with usage. If we have time we will add these information to the game so that is 100% clear.

[Aetrion]

Thanks for that reply. You should probably set it up so that you can't spend points into skills that increase on use at all, because it gimps your character is you invest limited points into skills that you could have gained another way.

It would probably also help if you made it clear somehow what the max level for any given skill is, because there are some like Athletics where it seems like 5 levels is all you'd ever need.


Having a good explanation of the skills and how the gain system works would definitely be important, because this seems like a game where building characters can be a lot of fun, but it's currently extremely easy to gimp yourself purely because when and where you spend your points makes such a huge difference.

[Dorok]

Col.Firefly eredeti hozzászólása:

...
They should have just left it the way it was from CE, but that had it's weirdness too. At least this differentiates the classes a bit more.
...

Awful DL class system was one of its best point, and quite original and they replaced it by a stupid Skyrim system, facepalm. Won't bother buy this new version just because of that and I even regret never have get a digital version of the original version or the CE.

[Aetrion]

There is still an interesting element to the new system, it's just so hard to fully understand what your choices do exactly that you feel like you're making them blind, and that in a game with no respecs.

[Col.Firefly]

MegalomaniacNG eredeti hozzászólása:

Its intentional that not all skills improve with usage. If we have time we will add these information to the game so that is 100% clear.

That's either the most boneheaded design decision in the history of time (changing mechanics inside the same system) or a CYA for something they wanted to do and could never get working.

Either way, it speaks realms to the competence of the devs.

[Aetrion]

The way the information is presented is broken as hell, sure, but if the UI simply presented you with one box that was like "Core Skills" and those go up by using them and one box called "Optional Skills" that go up when you spend points nobody would say it's a poor design choice, since the core skills simply happen to be skills without which your character cannot possibly advance, so there is no option of not raising them.

That's perfectly valid, the only reason it seems stupid right now is because it's in the UI like the skills are all the same and because you can spend optional points on core skills and thereby simply waste those points for something you'd have gotten anyways.

[MegalomaniacNG]

As said, that isnt well communicated through the game.
Anyways here is a list of skills that improve with usage:
WEAPON: DAGGER
WEAPON: SWORD
WEAPON: MACE & HAMMER
WEAPON: AXE
WEAPON: STAFF
WEAPON: POLEARM
WEAPON: THROW
WEAPON: BOW
WEAPON: KUNGFU (FISTS & FEET)
MAGIC: ARCANE
MAGIC: CRYSTAL
MAGIC: NETHER
MAGIC: RUNE
THIEF: STEAL
THIEF: DETECT TRAP
THIEF: DISARM TRAP
GENERAL SKILL: BASH
GENERAL SKILL: REPAIR

[Aetrion]

I have disarmed a ton of traps on chests and never gained any skill in it.

Also, is Detect Trap the same as Inspect? That is another skill that should have come up in the dozens of boxes I opened that never gained any points.

Repair skill also doesn't seem to make any progress on my character when I use repair kits.

Weapon and Magic skills seem to gain as intended.


I'm currently testing this on a Level 10 Adept who has no extra classes yet.

[Cle-tan]

Im a lvl60valkyrie and my friend is a lvl113 mage if anybody needs help