Vipers pulling through full cover

[Wandering Lore]

This game has been out for over a year now. How is this not fixed. It has happened to me too many times to count, even if the Viper does have line of sight it still shouldn't be able to drag my unit directly through a solid object.

Has there been a work around?

It's up there with a Mech patrolling and randomly hopping up through a window that it wouldn't fit through to get to the other side of a door, walking right through and revealing my whole squad, instead of just going through the door infront of it.

Thanks

[twopointfour]

Peek From Concealment and Less Silly Lines of Sight are both worth downloading. Though it won't stop situations like MECs smashing through windows etc

[talemore]

Pick one of them

Lore friendly
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=884835724&searchtext=Viper

Player friendly
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=880396912&searchtext=Viper

That's xcom baby.

Now go and put some dirt in the wound.

[Wandering Lore]

Thanks guys, I'll take a look at these. Maybe less silly lines of sight will prevent me from being shot for a critical half way across the map through 3 walls by an advent trooper...

[The Bored Chairman]

Whilst I agree that sightlines are bogus in this game (which is why I always bring a Phantom Ranger, makes the game much easier), Viper grabs break reality and that's in a game with Space Magic.

First of all, they're snakes, not frogs. Secondly, the sheer muscle density required to lasso a fully equipped soldier would be enormous and the Viper's heads would simply collapse under the weight. Third of all, and as pointed out, objects become intangible for the sake of a game mechanic.

Now, I'm always willing to suspend my sense of disbelief for some artistic liberties... but this is a case of the game's universe not playing by its own rules. And that's a no-no in world building, because "anything goes" ruins the integrity of the world you are attempting to create.

[Bindal]

Not playing by its own rules? There were rules set up how the tongues work outside of the grappling? Because I sure as hell never saw any of that.
And given that these are sentient, 2.5m large alien snakes that can spit poison or ice, I think "grappling people with their tongue" is not really that much of a stretch.
As for the cover, it's the same as with getting shot at in high cover. I did download the mod that disables it, however (it's still possible with the Viper King, I learned, and I am fine with that), but it's mechanically not any different from shooting.

And if my Bladestorm Rangers get grappled, that usually results in a new haircut for the Viper (and, later, a fried snake)

[Maj. Crimes]

Its not a bug, its a feature

[red255]

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

First of all, they're snakes, not frogs.

Oh really? you did the autopsy? they are alien creatures, not based on snakes or frogs.

[The Bored Chairman]

Originally posted by Bindal:

Not playing by its own rules? There were rules set up how the tongues work outside of the grappling? Because I sure as hell never saw any of that.
And given that these are sentient, 2.5m large alien snakes that can spit poison or ice, I think "grappling people with their tongue" is not really that much of a stretch.
As for the cover, it's the same as with getting shot at in high cover. I did download the mod that disables it, however (it's still possible with the Viper King, I learned, and I am fine with that), but it's mechanically not any different from shooting.

And if my Bladestorm Rangers get grappled, that usually results in a new haircut for the Viper (and, later, a fried snake)

Spitting Poison and Ice isn't that far-fetched, since there exist some snakes capable of spitting poison and genetic engineering could create a strand of toxin that acts as a cryogenic projectile.

Like I said, it's the muscle-fiber density of the Vipers tongue that makes no sense. Their tongues are too strong for the size of the creature. Why bother constricting a soldier when it's much easier (and safer) to simply stick their heads and rip them off? This would actually require less strength than pulling a fully-grown human with body armor and equipment. Logically, the torque required to accomplish this would rip a viper's tongue in half.

This is what I mean. Space Magic, bioengineering and what have you all have rules to follow. They can all be boiled down to math. And math dictates that the Viper's grapple, even in this universe, is impossible.

A more realistic game mechanic would be if Vipers could sprint to their targets instead and bind them, with any soldier attempting to shoot said Viper suffering an Aim Penalty, since they don't want to hit their ally. In fact, Vipers can move and bind, and will do so if in range of an enemy. It's not that much of a stretch (no pun intended) to make it a Sprint ability.

[The Bored Chairman]

Originally posted by red255:

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

First of all, they're snakes, not frogs.

Oh really? you did the autopsy? they are alien creatures, not based on snakes or frogs.

Fair enough, genetic manipulation could give them Frog-like tongues, though I don't understand why they would need to store the Venom glands where they are.

(Hint: the venom glands are the Viper's boobs. Ethereals are giants pervs).

[Bindal]

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

This is what I mean. Space Magic, bioengineering and what have you all have rules to follow. They can all be boiled down to math. And math dictates that the Viper's grapple, even in this universe, is impossible.

Given we have the Codex, which is a creature that apparently doesn't exist physically in our world, I think going with "anything goes because they're aliens and don't need to follow earths rules" is a perfectly legitimate explaination (which would probably be just that: The Elders did it, and we don't know why)

[The Bored Chairman]

Originally posted by Bindal:

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

This is what I mean. Space Magic, bioengineering and what have you all have rules to follow. They can all be boiled down to math. And math dictates that the Viper's grapple, even in this universe, is impossible.

Given we have the Codex, which is a creature that apparently doesn't exist physically in our world, I think going with "anything goes because they're aliens and don't need to follow earths rules" is a perfectly legitimate explaination (which would probably be just that: The Elders did it, and we don't know why)

The Codex is likely a Psychic projection caused by the Codex itself, which is why only the brain remains when it's destroyed. Even when they copy themselves, there is still only one brain left over, meaning the clones are just Psychic projections of the host Codex. When you shoot them, you aren't physically harming them, it's mental trauma from having to sustain the form, which also explains why the Codex splits its health with its Clones.

Yes, even a creature such as the Codex can be explained by using the Xcom Universe's own rules.

[Bindal]

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

Originally posted by Bindal:

Given we have the Codex, which is a creature that apparently doesn't exist physically in our world, I think going with "anything goes because they're aliens and don't need to follow earths rules" is a perfectly legitimate explaination (which would probably be just that: The Elders did it, and we don't know why)

The Codex is likely a Psychic projection caused by the Codex itself, which is why only the brain remains when it's destroyed. Even when they copy themselves, there is still only one brain left over, meaning the clones are just Psychic projections of the host Codex. When you shoot them, you aren't physically harming them, it's mental trauma from having to sustain the form, which also explains why the Codex splits its health with its Clones.

Yes, even a creature such as the Codex can be explained by using the Xcom Universe's own rules.

Except it's not a psionic projection. It's an interdimensional one. And, as Tygan states, one that's actually phsical when it's there but not there all the time.

[The Bored Chairman]

Originally posted by Bindal:

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

The Codex is likely a Psychic projection caused by the Codex itself, which is why only the brain remains when it's destroyed. Even when they copy themselves, there is still only one brain left over, meaning the clones are just Psychic projections of the host Codex. When you shoot them, you aren't physically harming them, it's mental trauma from having to sustain the form, which also explains why the Codex splits its health with its Clones.

Yes, even a creature such as the Codex can be explained by using the Xcom Universe's own rules.

Except it's not a psionic projection. It's an interdimensional one. And, as Tygan states, one that's actually phsical when it's there but not there all the time.

The Psionic Network used by the Aliens is likely the same dimention the Codexes come from, since Ethereals are also halfway through dimentions. As for the Codex manipulating objects and firing weapons, this might also be psionic projectiles, since the Codex does not drop a weapon on death.

In the first Xcom, the Ethereals state that all previous Alien races were meant only for service. As such, it can be assumed that the Codex projects the image of weapons and weapon fire, since their limited metal capacity lacks the imagination to project something else.

There is no real evidence to support this, barring confirmation from the developers, but it all fits, at least in my mind, which is why the Viper Tongue attack makes no sense.

[Bindal]

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

There is no real evidence to support this, barring confirmation from the developers, but it all fits, at least in my mind, which is why the Viper Tongue attack makes no sense.

In your mind - but to me, that's complete and utter non-sense, especially given what we do see in game.

And no, the Psionic Network is not in any other dimension - it's right there. The pre-final mission is even about hacking the relay tower for it.
And the Ethereals aren't in a different dimension, either. They're currently either psionic ghosts projecting themselves while physically still there (which the outro heavily supports, given the 'stasis pods' start to glow there) or halfway between ascention and not (something brought up in The Bureau, where we see two ascended Ethereals, which is apparently quite rare for them. So rare, that there is normally only one of them per planet, if at all)

[The Bored Chairman]

Originally posted by Bindal:

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

There is no real evidence to support this, barring confirmation from the developers, but it all fits, at least in my mind, which is why the Viper Tongue attack makes no sense.

In your mind - but to me, that's complete and utter non-sense, especially given what we do see in game.

That's fine, artistic mediums are subject to interpretation. I prefer to look at the big picture and find the threads that create the tapestry, which is why world building is important to me, especially since I enjoy recreational writing.

But I suppose it's not for everyone.