Line Of Defense Tactics - Tactical Advantage

Line Of Defense Tactics - Tactical Advantage

Sebastian Feb 13, 2014 @ 1:37am
Dear developer- How to get rid of trolls and make more money
This is easy... Set the price lower and you will sell more units than you are at the moment and as such make MORE money from the game. Plus as most of the so called trolling seems to be about the price hike of IOS to PC... well thay would stop as well.

I think you have a good game here and if you really released this to get people into the MMO you are working on... Well having a lower price for this game will get more people to buy it and as such more likely to buy the MMO when it comes out.

I think I am making some very good sense here?
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Showing 1-15 of 19 comments
Techbane (Banned) Feb 13, 2014 @ 4:48am 
It'd probably help if he didn't delete literally every comment that isn't unconditional praise. Meaning this whole thread is going to vanish pretty soon.
dsmart  [developer] Feb 13, 2014 @ 5:25am 
Well, you're wrong.
Originally posted by Valdadark:
This is easy... Set the price lower and you will sell more units than you are at the moment and as such make MORE money from the game. Plus as most of the so called trolling seems to be about the price hike of IOS to PC... well thay would stop as well.

I think you have a good game here and if you really released this to get people into the MMO you are working on... Well having a lower price for this game will get more people to buy it and as such more likely to buy the MMO when it comes out.

I think I am making some very good sense here?

I think a lot of the trolling started about the price, and a few still wander in, but I suspect that a significant number of the trolls are coming in here to poke Derek Smart with a stick and see if he'll tell them to eat a ♥♥♥♥.

This particular Dev is not going to get rid of trolls... Unfortunately, because it is actually a pretty darn good game.
dsmart  [developer] Feb 13, 2014 @ 5:53am 
Indeed. And this post is my latest effort to try and neutralize this nonsense.
Last edited by dsmart; Feb 13, 2014 @ 5:53am
Sebastian Feb 13, 2014 @ 6:21am 
Well I am not in the "know" enough to know why people want to Troll Derek Smart. I don't for sure... I still think what I said on my first posting would help this game get to a larger audience and as such more likly to succeed... Therefore ensuring there is money in the pot to finish the MMO and two fold ensure there is a greater demand for the product.
dsmart  [developer] Feb 13, 2014 @ 6:25am 
Thanks for your well-intended input.

However, there are no plans to reduce the price of the game. And even if that did in fact happen, it won't have anything to do with trolls. Plus, there is no version of this life where I would let a bunch of people dictate what I can and cannot do with my property.

The MMO is fully funded and has been in development for over three years now. This game (which has already made back its money) has no effect on the funding of the MMO.
NIL0S Feb 13, 2014 @ 7:33am 
About the pricing... I'm thinking supply and demand. Having said this, even if the game DOES look like it could scratch that isometric tactical squad based combat itch, personally I think the price is a bit overblown, iOS port or not. What can I say, i'm used to awesome deals here on Steam :) Personally, this just makes me put the game on my wishlist and /wait for a deep discount, like 80% or so, maybe even for it to be in a bundle.

About the bullying, 101 of internet trolls is that if you don't feed them with attention they will eventually grow disinterested and move on. I agree that personal attacks, profanity and insults should be moderated, but at the same time please make a difference between bullying and plain negative opinions about something; true criticism is never easy to take and since people on here are paying customers they have no particular obligation of being constructive or nice about it.

IMO devs are already sufficiently protected by the forum rules and EULA. Tags and reviews are a good thing, they can swing both ways for a game's/dev's reputation, it surely is a good thing for Steam customers, caveat emptor and all that :)
Last edited by NIL0S; Feb 13, 2014 @ 7:48am
dsmart  [developer] Feb 13, 2014 @ 7:44am 
While I agree with mostly all you said, I have to take issue with the following:

It's not that easy to just ignore trolls and hope that they go away. If it were that simple, then there would be no rules for online decorum. And Valve - and others - won't even bother posting guidelines for forum conduct. Without rules there is only anarchy.

I have absolutely no problems with negative criticism because I'm not the sort of person who goes to sleep at night wondering what some angry person on the internet thinks. This is not my first rodeo. So yes, I can in fact handle it quite well. There is a fine line between disrespect and constructive criticism. Most people either don't know where that line is or they do, but just choose to cross it. That's where things tend to go sideways.

Opinions are just that, opinions.

Forum rules and EULA provide no protection for devs. They are just rules and guidelines which, can and will be ignored - and most often are. Hence the problem.

Tags and reviews are of course a good thing; when used properly and as intended. They are likely to be abused and they are in fact widely abused. The only recourse being that you have to accept that sensible people can actually see through a vendetta and not fall for it. Which, by the way, is exactly why - after all these years - I am still doing what I love and do best: developing video games.

The problem with bullies and trolls is that they don't like being called out or engaged in like fashion. It is a sense of entitlement that is born of anti-social tendencies and the desire to see the world burn. There is no known cure.

Ask yourself this question. What makes your post and one before it different from the ones we delete? Think about that for a minute and you'll find that the answer is quite simple: respectful and polite exchange.
Last edited by dsmart; Feb 13, 2014 @ 7:46am
Sfeza Feb 13, 2014 @ 3:25pm 
People that do not like your product are not trolls or bullies or whatever... Respectful and polite exchange is not possible when the one part has the authority to just delete your opinion and makes sure you are reminded of it each moment they hear something they do not like. It is called OPINION and this is mine. The only one till now that has antisocial tendencies it is you. And there will be rules you do not like unless you are making them. And in this forum you are making them. You are making a small forum society exactly how you like it to be. This does not mean it is ideal. Dictatorship works like that.

Also about you having no problem with critisism. One simple google search proves otherwise...

You are probably good at developing games as you said. I cannot disagree with that, I have not played any of your games. But you really should leave public relations to a person that is good at this.

This is neither trolling, nor entitlement. I am not asking you to do anything for me. I am just giving you my honest opinion of the IMAGE you are showing.

Also anarchy is not necessarily a bad thing. As a fan of anarchism it is really fun (depressing though mostly) to see what authority does to people.

Thank you if you read this and I am sorry if I offended you it was not my intention. I am just a random internet person that stumbled on this story and hopped in to share his opinion.

Sorry for mistakes, english is not my main language.
Last edited by Sfeza; Feb 13, 2014 @ 3:26pm
dsmart  [developer] Feb 13, 2014 @ 3:43pm 
Since you were not around when this all started and you have not seen the posts and threads that were deleted or why they were, you are in absolutely no position to say why they were deleted and people banned due to the criticism. You are wrong.

Just because those whose posts were deleted - the same people creating vanity profiles so they can come back, the same people who are posting ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t reviews on the game's store page and on Metacritic are the same people who were banned here. It had nothing to do with criticism of the game, but more to do with the fact that we disagreed with their assumptions that since the game - according to them - was a port of a mobile title, that it should be priced lower.

As if the price of our game has any impact on their lives whatsoever. Why exactly should they care? If the price is too high, move along. What is so hard about that?

The people who are not banned, who have been reading this etc know exactly what happened and how it happened.

People who behave badly online are first to start screaming about freedom of speech, censorship, dictatorship and all that nonsensical crap when they can't have it their way. There are rules for posting on forums. But the sad reality is that most anti-social misfits have no home training, are delinquent, are bullies and everything in between. They bring their real life selves into the online world where there is little or no accountability.

Don't even begin to lecture me about online behavior unless you have more experience in dealing with the online public than I do. You don't.

Then you come here acting as if this sort of behavior is new to the Internet or that somehow society devolved overnight and not it's a thing. This sort of crap happens everywhere online - especially where anti-social gamers are present. And I am not the only dev battling it. It just so happens that I'm probably the most vocal and one who is notorious for not taking crap from anyone.

There is absolutely no trolling allowed here. Not even in jest. Period. End of story.
Last edited by dsmart; Feb 13, 2014 @ 3:45pm
Orion Star God Feb 13, 2014 @ 4:22pm 
You know, I was going to write something else, but the above statement by Mr Smart is so true that it stopped me in my tracks. I have played previous games designed by Derek Smart, and they were a little too complex for me. In fact, the printed tutorials were so long that I just didn't have the time to sink into learning the thing, so I can't even attest to their playability. But it is evident that the man really puts a lot into his work. I STRONGLY disagree with Mr. Smart about a great many things, but his musings on anti-social gamers are right on, and will no doubt ruffle some feathers.

The steam forum users have no idea what they are in for.
Satoru Feb 13, 2014 @ 4:44pm 
Functionally there's no real way to neutralize pricing trolling

Firstly due to the multiplatform launch, and the fact taht mobile pricing is just utterly and totally stupid in general, devs are forced to price games into oblivion then slap on in-game purchases. It's just the reality of the mobile market. Most devs would likley like some kind fo pricing parity across platforms. That's just not possible with the mobile market forces the way they are.

Secondly when it comes to price, someone somewhere is going to say X is 'too much'. It really doesn't matter. Prison Architect had lots of such threads. "I woudlnt pay $5 for this flash game" or other nonsensical posts concerning thier pricing. They could price it exactly teh same as the mobile market, and some subset of people will simply scream "PHONE PORT" and troll again. You really can't 'win' this.

At the end of the day, you have to make your own decisions at to what you want to do and how to price things. And making those financial decisions based on the insane rantings of Internet troll is bad business.
Last edited by Satoru; Feb 13, 2014 @ 4:45pm
dsmart  [developer] Feb 13, 2014 @ 5:13pm 
You see, what is wrong this sort of debate? Nothing.

How is it that the two of you - and others here - can voice your opinions (whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant) without being banned, posts deleted etc?

Simple. It's call respectful discourse.

I am not, never have been and don't profess to be the poster child for good online behavior. However, I have had my share and somewhere along the line, I grew up. Then what was fun, became a bore. Back in the day, it was all fun and games. It stopped being fun and games when people (like that one kid who stalked me in real life back in the Usenet days - if you were on Usenet back in the day, then you already know how that ended) took it into the real world. It stopped being fun when people decided to attack my livelihood by posting all manner of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t about me, creating libelous websites etc - someone they knew nothing about.

And that was back when I was battling and dealing with anxiety issues as chronicled here[]. So it wasn't fun for me, though I did have fun at times.

There comes a time when you have to put your foot down. I don't care how old I get or what's at stake, I will never - ever - let anyone bully or push me around. Which is why when I fight back, it ends up being overkill because I don't pull any punches. Whether it is a lawsuit or just a discovery engagement to find the misfit behind the anon mask, I will pursue it as I have done on several occasions - and prevailed. Which is why people and corporations simply don't mess with me. Play nice and I'll play along. Anything else and it's game over.

And when you go far enough for what you believe in, that's when people start crying foul.

I never have and never will make games because it's a paycheck. It's not. I'm already rich enough to not work another day in my life if I so choose. And it has been that way for a very - very - long time now. But I still do this because, this is my hobby. I develop games for a select group of people who like them. It is those people who got me where I am today. It is those people who can say they were around since the very beginning when nobody knew who Derek Smart was or whether or not he was going to be around five years from then.

I am passionate about my work and this game is no exception. For me, it was something different. A "what if" sort of experiment that has exceeded all my expectations thanks in part to the very talented people who I put together to help make it a reality.

So when we look at trends and try to figure out how to price and position a game, it's not something we take lightly. Large corporations have marketing and focus groups for that crap.

Here they are, trolling us about the price of a game they don't know by a developer they don't even like (yeah, I'm crying over here) because I don't let them put me under siege. And I'm supposed to do what? Fall over? Wrong dev.

Meanwhile, EA is putting out tripe like Dungeon Keeper remake and sticking to their guns. Guys like me are catering to people who want to play these games and who don't want to feel shafted by a money grab. And we get this crap.

And let's not forget the fact that I didn't even add micro-transactions to the PC version, though I had every opportunity to do so. I realize that the PC market is a different kettle of fish and so the game was structured and priced accordingly.

We all have our sense of worth and what we are willing to pay for something. But how on Earth can you say - without playing it - that just because a game is multi-platform, that somehow the PC version is not worth its price? I mean seriously?

If you don't think the price is right, don't buy it. Just move on. No fuss.
Last edited by dsmart; Feb 13, 2014 @ 5:18pm
Orion Star God Feb 13, 2014 @ 9:50pm 
"And let's not forget the fact that I didn't even add micro-transactions to the PC version, though I had every opportunity to do so. I realize that the PC market is a different kettle of fish and so the game was structured and priced accordingly."

This statement alone is enough to get me to try this game. I bet the people complaining about the price didn't even take into account the price differential considering the lack of microtransactions.
dsmart  [developer] Feb 14, 2014 @ 3:03am 
Here, take a look at the pricing guidelines[] for the game. This was published months ago. And in there, you will even see that there were in fact not one, but two PC SKUs. One of which we killed while in discussions with Valve.
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