If you think FG is too expensive, has crappy graphics, or whatever

[Qai]

then by all means go and use something free like Roll20 or MapTool.

Please don't troll, complain, flame, entice others to dispute, or otherwise create useless threads that add nothing of value and serve only to state that you will not be making a purchase.

The FG community, not just the devs, have bent-over-backwards to help provide information, supply tutorials, and be encouraging in welcoming new members to the community.

Take the information that others have invested time to put together, download the demo, and try FG for yourself.

If you are unsatisfied with FG, then please don't clutter these forums with your hate. Let these forums be a productive environment for those using FG or that genuinely have an interest in learning more about FG.

[[SXG] ballan4]

I'm loving my FG Purchase, I completely agree with you! Thanks

[Magnatude]

I agree as well, try out all the Tabletops out there.
There are some really great tools.
I've even worked with other software companies in creating them (NBOS)

The Tabletops are designed to work with what graphics you put into them.
So if you are a GM that makes crappy looking maps, then FG wont improve on them, neither will any other Tabletop emulator.

I personally go out of my way to make interesting images in my games, and YOU as a user will have to do the same.
However... if you put a lot of effort as a GM to present an imagnitive story, you can get away with hand drawn scanned crappy images... AND I do play in a few games were the GM does not have very good artistic talents in drawing, and I DO enjoy his games because of the setting he creates.

If you want a pretty/gorgeous looking map, you will need to make them that way.

Just the way it is guys...

I love FG for the way its set up, it works for me!

[GramTheGray]

Very well put Qai.

[viresanimi]

Thanks... this needed saying.

[Statboy]

I use roll20, and will continue to use roll20. My friends and I were following fantasy grounds for a while before launch and were excited for it. But the price is keeping us far away, quite frankly it's not in the average person's budget. You are putting out a better product than roll20 or any of the other free sites, and if you lowered your price (substantially as right now you're way out of most peoples price range), you'd get me and my friends as customers. I think fantasy grounds could be much more profitable if the pricing structure were changed. I would like to see the price dropped just so I could buy it.

[Qai]

Originally posted by Warinblag:

Spelling errors be damned

I wrote about incorrect grammar, not about spelling errors.

Also, if you want to read REVIEWS about games, both positive and negative, then read the REVIEWS section on the store page. Each REVIEW can also have its own discussion section. That's why the REVIEWS section exists, i.e., so as not to clutter the forums.

Welcome to Steam.

[Qai]

Originally posted by Warinblag:

POST whatever you want,

but not wherever you want. There is a designated section for posting REVIEWS.

Welcome to civilized society.

[Trollgent]

Qai does make a ton of sense and logic. #review@reviewsection

[.:Lucky:.™]

I would really like to play but it's just too expensive for me and my friends to get into unfortunatly. If it was a better deal, I'd be able to convince other friends to play as well.

[Rhia]

The wonderful thing about Steam is that so long as what is posted does not violate the ToS and forum rules we can post anything we like, on any forum we like, at any time we like. That includes the OP and the "Haters". In the spirit of free posting I will now write a TL:DR post for anyone who cares to read it, but its mostly for the OP in response to his post.

However Qai you, as a fan of FG, have a responsibility to support and foster interest in the community and game/program that you are so vailantly defending. Your post very much colors the view of anyone reading it, as much as any of the "troll" posts, in a negative light. It is saying quite simply "We are elitists, this is our community, you conform to the standards we find acceptable and keep your mouth shut or GTFO"

I think that the devs of this program would very much prefer you spend your time, as you said, "bending over backwards" to help people find value in their product than driving away potential customers becuase they read your post and are left with the feeling that this is an elitist neckbeard club.

You are not privy to all the reasons people find this program overpriced, not everyone looks at it and says "Screw this I want it for 1 dollar because... reasons!". My friend and I have been watching this very closely in the hopes it goes on sale, $119 for a 4 pack (becuase buying 2 packs at $80 dollars instead of 4 at $119 just makes no sense at all) is a bit out of either of our price ranges at the moment.

Why is it too expensive for me at present? Since you will think im whining and trolling I will share vaguely personal information to illustrate my point, I spent pretty much the better part of 2013 in and out of the hospital undergoing chemotherapy, tests, doctor visits all of which cost me nearly 75% of my income and all of my savings for 2013. I am just now starting to recover financially. My friend has her own reasons equally beyond her control which are not my place to share.

So do I expect the devs to drop the price simply becuase I cannot justify the cost of it right now? No I do not, that would be naive, but what I DO expect is to be allowed to post my feelings and thoughts on the game, the price, the selection of games, hell if I dont like the color of the UI I can post it here, becuase there is no rule that tells me I cannot. There is only a community member who has appointed himself "grammar sheriff of these here parts" and stands like some Colossus of Rhodes over the gates of the community deciding what can and cant be posted on the forums.

[Dathmar]

Well said Rhia
Response rating A+.

[Qai]

So you wont be buying FG?

[Rhia]

Is that how you judge the worth of my comments? or is that simply an "Oh yeah?" response due to a lack of intelligent argument to counter mine? I will buy FG when and if I choose to, whether I do or not however is not your concern. Had you read the entre post and not just skimmed it for bullet points to see if I was on your side, or perhaps you ignored it completley, you would not have to ask the question.


My feelings on the price, state of the game, available rule sets all determine if I will or wont buy it. Your feelings on my reasoning do not matter to me, your attitude however turns me off the community as a whole a little. I posted a constructive open letter to you laying out the problems with your post becuase I beleived you had good intent but poor execution. but it is clear to me that you are one of the trolls, just one who bought the game and thinks it entitles you to police the forums.

As for FG, I think the developers would prefer people tell them the things they like and dont like about their software and what things they might want to consider changing to drive up sales and interest. Most businesses want community feedback, good or bad, and every business I have managed or worked for has welcomed comments from people, in fact encouraged them, as to why they do not want to visit their store/restaurant/office so they can improve and make changes to invite more business.

Unless you have Moderator under your name, do not presume to tell me what I can and cannot post. Scurry on down to the comic book store down the street and gather your neckbeard friends in the backroom for your own special elitist invite only game and be happy. I simply will not stop speaking my mind simply becuase you think your opinion matters more than the rest of the people on this forum.

[Qai]

I read your comments. What else do you want me to say? Your entire post essentially boils down to:

1) You can post anything you want, anywhere you want; and

2) You haven't bought FG, and unless something changes from the current situation, then you will not be buying FG.

I'm not policing anything, and I'm not advocating that people should not say what they want. All I'm trying to ask is that people respect the layout and structure that Valve has put in place in order to lessen clutter and provide a conducive environment.

Your comments are thoughtful and well-worded. I would say your feedback is an exception to the majority that simply come on here and troll. People come on the forums and post things about FG without even having downloaded the demo and tried it for themselves, people have come on here and insulted FG because they think other VTTs are better and trying to start a holy war, etc. Stuff like that is unproductive and is what really turns people away from the community, i.e., why visit a forum if all it is is plagued with trolls and complainers that add absolutely nothing of value to the discussion?

The comments from Steam users on these forums are vastly different than what you typically see on FG's official website. People are not going to register for a whole new account on a different website just to post that they will not be purchasing FG and to rant about other VTTs.

This is not about being an elitist or a moderator. It is about being civil and productive. If you do not like what I'm "telling you to do", then feel free to ignore me and just post whatever you want, wherever you want. I'll just probably think you a brute. But what do you care what I think?

As far as FG goes, on the FG forums, about FG, your two lengthy exchanges only serve to indicate that you haven't purchased FG and that you unlikely will not in the near future because you cannot afford it. OK. So what?

The devs are very nice and very involved in the community. Don't let me turn you away because of what I think. Who cares what I think. Send them a personal e-mail, explain your situation, and see if they can work something out with you to turn you into a potential customer. Personalize your exchange with them, rather than just throwing something out in the void of the internet hoping someone will care.

[Rhia]

This is the Steam forums, trolls live here, under every bridge to every game community from CoD to Railroad X, they feed off your frustration and annoyance at their actions. but unless they are doing significant harm to the product, the best course is to ignore them, they wont stop simply becuase you ask them to nicely or otherwise. Criticism, when constructive, can be very helpful to the developers even more so than pats on the back.

My original post was to let you know that acting as gatekeeper projects a negative impression of the community, as much as one troll can frustrate the community, one overzealous defender can turn off potential customers. When I consider buying a game that is meant to be played with other people, I always check the forums to see waht I can expect from the community, if it looks like its filled with screaming 12 year old CoD brats, Ill pass, if it looks like its populated with people who are snobs and unwilling to welcome newbies and the curious into their circle, then Ill pass.

In this instance, your post left a negative impression on me personally, it wont make my decision for me, but I thought you might like to know that, while you are clearly a fan of FG and wanting to see it succeed, you have to be careful how you project your image as a fan to the new and unitiated, if your itnent is to draw in new people that is. It was just food for thought in case you were not intending it to come across as a keep out sign.

Myself and my friends who have been watching this are all very interested in seeing how it progresses, the price is a bit prohibitive to us at the present time and it does not officially support the games we are most interested in running, if the situation changes and allows for us to buy FG and play the games we enjoy then we will.