So... You nerf farming, instead of adding spoil timers to food?

[Discipline Before Dishonor]

I just thought of this today, and I find it kind of hilarious. Why nerf farming when you can just do the basic survival thing and make food perishable lmmfao

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

Farming has become something that I just flat out don't even do anymore. I used to be excited to get some crop production going, but truth is, you can just clear a farm POI of all its crops, then get a quest for the same POI, refresh the POI, and harvest even more of it. Endlessly. Farming is an irrelevant and unnecessary game mechanic now, and TFP made it so. To be honest I haven't even invested in any attributes besides strength, intellect and agility for a couple alphas now. I'm a single player, so I'm essentially pidgeonholed into intellect for bartering and crafting, strength for mining/cooking and armor, and agility for parkour/run and gun/flurry of blows. That's the current single player meta. I play on Insane Nightmare so it's not like I'm gonna waste time investing into inferior attributes that were intentionally designed to be lesser in comparison to other attributes. I think Sex Rex and Run & Gun should be general perks available to everyone; Cooking, mining, and workstations should also be available to everyone too. Attributes were the single worst direction TFP could have taken the game in my opinion, it literally just pidgeonholes single players into one playstyle.

How did such a chaotic and fun game become this bland stale cracker of an experience =( It's just a trader centric quest fest with a meta playstyle now. I feel like I could just play any MMO ever, if that's all I wanted from a game.

I actually agree with a lot of this. I dislike farming for the same reasons, and usually go for the same character build. Farming is irrelevant and unnecessary, it could have been made meaningful and rewarding for people investing in it, instead of punishing those who don't.

[meganoth]

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

Farming has become something that I just flat out don't even do anymore. I used to be excited to get some crop production going, but truth is, you can just clear a farm POI of all its crops, then get a quest for the same POI, refresh the POI, and harvest even more of it. Endlessly. Farming is an irrelevant and unnecessary game mechanic now, and TFP made it so. To be honest I haven't even invested in any attributes besides strength, intellect and agility for a couple alphas now. I'm a single player, so I'm essentially pidgeonholed into intellect for bartering and crafting, strength for mining/cooking and armor, and agility for parkour/run and gun/flurry of blows. That's the current single player meta. I play on Insane Nightmare so it's not like I'm gonna waste time investing into inferior attributes that were intentionally designed to be lesser in comparison to other attributes. I think Sex Rex and Run & Gun should be general perks available to everyone; Cooking, mining, and workstations should also be available to everyone too. Attributes were the single worst direction TFP could have taken the game in my opinion, it literally just pidgeonholes single players into one playstyle.

How did such a chaotic and fun game become this bland stale cracker of an experience =( It's just a trader centric quest fest with a meta playstyle now. I feel like I could just play any MMO ever, if that's all I wanted from a game.

About the single player meta, it surely is necessary to carefully optimize what perks you take when you want to play insane. But if someone plays below that then for example run&gun is a totally optional skill because you can always substitute run&gun with run ;-).
What you are (correctly) critizising is that 7D2D is leaving many veteran players out in the rain, but this is "by design". TFP would probably reply "Yes, but that is a consequence of our "meta" to have vanilla as introduction for new players and mods as the upgrade for veterans".

For me as veteran player who isn't even trying to play insane the focus on the trader for everything happening in the game is the more problematic part (but don't want to get off-topic here). In SP I can specialize without problem into any attribute and survive, even into perception which has never gotten a real balance-pass by TFP. And for me the attributes provide the soft pressure to really play a new strategy with every new playthrough. Something I could not do if I played at the highest possible difficulty setting where I had to use every scrap of advantage I can find.

I once heard someone from TFP say that it is by design that strength is the easiest of the possible attributes to play. So it is no surprise that it is part of any best meta build for insane players.

[Midas]

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

Anyway all I need to do is wait for modders to repair the damage TFP have caused. Simple solution.

They already have. Undead Legacy makes farming make sense (IE picking crops and waiting for them to regrow, rather than destroying them), and already has a miles better water system than what funpimps is clowning around with in A21.

[celticarmoury]

As others have said, modding will be the way in the end. 2k + hours and only 13 achievements should tell you how I play this game. Go gold and we can all choose the mods we want to play.

[Discipline Before Dishonor]

Originally posted by Midas:

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

Anyway all I need to do is wait for modders to repair the damage TFP have caused. Simple solution.

They already have. Undead Legacy makes farming make sense (IE picking crops and waiting for them to regrow, rather than destroying them), and already has a miles better water system than what funpimps is clowning around with in A21.

Yeah I'm playing UL now, it's hands-down my favourite overhaul mod, can't get enough. My only gripe with it, isn't even a gripe with it, but a gripe with vanilla. That broken zombie crawling mechanic, I really really hope they fix it for A21.

[Slim Pickins]

The main reason I'd say is because of loot containers. Either every loot container would have to pause the timers or reset them each time you view the food within, like loot respawning. The reason being that if I run around opening loot containers without taking the food out, whether by eating it or dropping it on the ground to be despawned, then the game would have to calculate the timers on every food item viewed this way no matter where you were in the world and that would tax RAM as well as CPU usage very heavily. Not to mention how hard it would be to maintain decent online multiplayer experiences. To have it load those timers, food spoilage timers for each individual food item, the meshes, the entities, etc. it'd simply be to much or at best cause serious lag over time while traveling from one chunk to another.
The second reason is much simpler than that and has everything to do with storage. If I pick a piece of corn and the next day another, the next day another, the next day another, then each piece of corn would either need to take up an individual item slot as to make the spoilage timers visible for the player or you would have stacks of food that have random spoilage within them which would somewhat defeat the purpose as you wouldn't really know how much edible food you really ever have at any given time.
I agree though, farming has gotten pretty lame. I very rarely ever farm honestly unless I'm playing an overhaul mod where food is harder to maintain or I actually need the buffs some of the foods give. Even then all you do is put down a farm plot, put your seed in, then wait, pick it, create a seed, put it in, wait, pick it, put the seed in, wait... it's to simple and tedious compared to exploring exciting new locations and finding food there or simply buying it from the trader your already going to visit. I had fun farming in Alpha 16 because food was rare to find, was needed, and building a farm required more ingenuity as to not have zombies destroy it or have it collapse your base if placed on the roof.

[deathmage390]

Originally posted by admos:

Originally posted by deathmage390:

(also LotL is not truly positive until lvl3, 0-3 you get 2/ 4/ 4(5)/ 6 from planted crops)

Originally posted by Red Eagle:

Perk level 0
2 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed
Perk Level 1
4 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed
Perk Level 2
4 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed + 50% chance of additional fruit
Perk Level 3
6 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed + 50% chance of additional fruit


So with a start of 50 fruit that convert to 10 seeds.:

WORST CASE:

Perk Level 0
20 Fruit + 0 seeds (worth 0fruit)+ 0 fruit = Loss 30 Fruit
Perk Level 1
40 Fruit + 0 seeds (worth 0fruit) + 0 fruit = Loss 10 Fruit
Perk Level 2
40 Fruit + 0 seeds (worth 0fruit) + 0 fruit = Loss 10 Fruit
Perk Level 3
60 Fruit + 0 seeds (worth 0fruit) + 0 fruit = Profit 10 Fruit

AVERAGE CASE:

Perk Level 0
20 Fruit + 5 seeds (worth 25 fruit) + 0 fruit = Loss 5 Fruit
Perk Level 1
40 Fruit + 5 seeds (worth 25 fruit) + 0 fruit = Profit 15 Fruit
Perk Level 2
40 Fruit + 5 seeds (worth 25 fruit) + 5 fruit = Profit 20 Fruit
Perk Level 3
60 Fruit + 5 seeds (worth 25 fruit) + 5 fruit = Profit 40 Fruit

BEST CASE:

Perk Level 0
20 Fruit + 10 seeds (worth 50 fruit) + 0 fruit = Profit 20 Fruit
Perk Level 1
40 Fruit + 10 seeds (worth 50 fruit) + 0 fruit = Profit 40 Fruit
Perk Level 2
40 Fruit + 10 seeds (worth 50 fruit) + 10 fruit = Profit 50 Fruit
Perk Level 3
60 Fruit + 10 seeds (worth 50 fruit) + 10 fruit = Profit 70 Fruit

your looking at the stats for it as a math problem. but you forgot about a couple of things.

A: Unless you purposely keep a stock (which means your not using it) of seeds or product to make seeds, a single bad harvest can mean you have to rebuild your seed count below LotL 3. at perk 2 you can still roll all +1 fruit but no seeds (same chance) meaning your short 5 fruit instead of up 20.

B: Time it takes to get the food 2 standard days for most (3 for things like mushrooms). this means that every time you get a bad harvest even with LotL3 yay you got +10 fruit. but that also means you only get the 10 fruit cause the rest is used for seeds. then you get to wait 2 in game days for the next one. How much you going through a day? is it enough?

C: most recipes take Multiple crops to make. Corn near mandatory, Potatoes near mandatory, you making yucca smoothies? blueberries AND yucka, herbal meds? blueberries and mushrooms, Crysanthmum/coffee for drinks? the only three that are basically just useless are cotton (go raid a savage country, or break blinds in POIs), Goldenrod (Crysanthymum is better), and Aloe (Medial POIs are really good for meds).

D: How many plots of each are you making 10? more? just 5? the more plots you have the longer it takes to harvest and replant the farms. the fewer of each crop you have the MORE likely you are to have a bad crop because you have less redundancy (more likely to get "at least X" seeds more plots you have). how many plots is too many? enough to burn an entire day harvesting? 10 IRL minutes? 30?

E: at least with multiplayer its guaranteed you will need a lot so larger plots and specialization is encouraged. but that also means your (or someone elses) day will likely be spent Just farming with enough people.

F: Living on the Land 2 is literally useless. 50% chance for +1 fruit? hell i would rather get a 5% increase the the chance to drop a seed.

[Discipline Before Dishonor]

I just watched "The Road" with Viggo Mortenson last night with my family, and the way that food was so scarce that cannibalism was the primary fear reminded me of the potential of 7 Days to Die. Imagine if food was so scarce that the primary villains in the game were cannibalistic bandits who hunted down whoever they could (men, women and children alike) for food. Apparently in the novel, The Road, which preceded the film, there's actually a part where parents are roasting their newborn baby on a spit because they're so hungry. I want modders to make THAT version of 7 Days to Die lol, where permadeath is the norm, food is extremely scarce, and radiation has caused every animal that wasn't sheltered during acid rain to die off, where the whole world is permanently foggy, grey and desolate and no crops can be grown because of it, and you can only survive as long as the world's processed food supply does.

But honestly I'll settle for a food spoilage mechanic, much rarer food, much rarer animal spawns, and more viable farming mechanics. I don't think crops should be available at farm POI's, because the implication of having bandits in the world of 7 Days is that all those crops should already be harvested by them, and the only ones you can actually find are the wild crops that you spend each day hoping you'll come across on your travels, while living on a prayer. I also think vending machines should be one-time lootable, then permanently empty, I also believe food in POI's like in cupboards and fridges should be extremely rare, and often spoiled. I mean, make it thrilling, you know? It's too easy right now. Add a debuff to gradually lose more and more max stamina points the longer you starve, and a buff to gradually gain more and more max stamina the longer you remain well-fed. Make it EXTREEEEEME. Because in real life you can literally go a month without food, and the long-term result of fasting is autophagy which can literally cure cancer, so fasting can be good for you, but we can exclude that scientific reality entirely, and just make it so prolonged starvation just makes you become increasingly weak with less stamina to use until it becomes an existential threat where you can't even swing a weapon anymore because you weren't efficient enough.

This advice is not only incredible, but also free. Plz modders, you're my only hope.

I mean, unless TFP want to be the next HelloGames and have a redemption arc. I'll sing their praises forever if they do, lol

Make 7 Days Great Again lmmfao

[Wild]

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

Make 7 Days Great Again

It is already

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

But honestly I'll settle for a food spoilage mechanic, much rarer food, much rarer animal spawns, and more viable farming mechanics. I don't think crops should be available at farm POI's, because the implication of having bandits in the world of 7 Days is that all those crops should already be harvested by them, and the only ones you can actually find are the wild crops that you spend each day hoping you'll come across on your travels, while living on a prayer. I also think vending machines should be one-time lootable, then permanently empty, I also believe food in POI's like in cupboards and fridges should be extremely rare, and often spoiled.

Just change the settings that are already available and edit the xml when needed? lmmfao (to use your own words)

You know, is pretty easy, you dont need to be a genius to do it...

[Discipline Before Dishonor]

Originally posted by twitch.tv/OGWild:

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

Make 7 Days Great Again

It is already

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

But honestly I'll settle for a food spoilage mechanic, much rarer food, much rarer animal spawns, and more viable farming mechanics. I don't think crops should be available at farm POI's, because the implication of having bandits in the world of 7 Days is that all those crops should already be harvested by them, and the only ones you can actually find are the wild crops that you spend each day hoping you'll come across on your travels, while living on a prayer. I also think vending machines should be one-time lootable, then permanently empty, I also believe food in POI's like in cupboards and fridges should be extremely rare, and often spoiled.

Just change the settings that are already available and edit the xml when needed? lmmfao (to use your own words)

You know, is pretty easy, you dont need to be a genius to do it...

Yeah sure let's just mock my lack of expertise in an area and create a societal narrative where different people with different skills don't help each other that's fine

[Discipline Before Dishonor]

Originally posted by twitch.tv/OGWild:

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

Make 7 Days Great Again

It is already

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

But honestly I'll settle for a food spoilage mechanic, much rarer food, much rarer animal spawns, and more viable farming mechanics. I don't think crops should be available at farm POI's, because the implication of having bandits in the world of 7 Days is that all those crops should already be harvested by them, and the only ones you can actually find are the wild crops that you spend each day hoping you'll come across on your travels, while living on a prayer. I also think vending machines should be one-time lootable, then permanently empty, I also believe food in POI's like in cupboards and fridges should be extremely rare, and often spoiled.

Just change the settings that are already available and edit the xml when needed? lmmfao (to use your own words)

You know, is pretty easy, you dont need to be a genius to do it...

I'll bet you didn't take 3 martial arts like I did, but I'm not sitting here telling you to "stop being weak you don't need to be a genius to do it". But honestly, the simple fact that you placed a question mark at the end of a statement shows me just how insecure you are and just how little your opinion needs to matter. Thanks for contributing to the discussion, bye bye now.

[Wild]

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

Originally posted by twitch.tv/OGWild:

It is already




Just change the settings that are already available and edit the xml when needed? lmmfao (to use your own words)

You know, is pretty easy, you dont need to be a genius to do it...

I'll bet you didn't take 3 martial arts like I did, but I'm not sitting here telling you to "stop being weak you don't need to be a genius to do it". But honestly, the simple fact that you placed a question mark at the end of a statement shows me just how insecure you are and just how little your opinion needs to matter. Thanks for contributing to the discussion, bye bye now.

You just seems someone that want to find his meal ready, instead of doing it yourself.
7 days to die is one of the easier game where to make mods, they're literally xml documents quite self-explanatory with lots of annotations that explains what lines does what.

Like you said, some people are weak and smart, some are strong and dumb.... bye bye "enjoy" your game, if you can :)

[Discipline Before Dishonor]

Originally posted by twitch.tv/OGWild:

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

I'll bet you didn't take 3 martial arts like I did, but I'm not sitting here telling you to "stop being weak you don't need to be a genius to do it". But honestly, the simple fact that you placed a question mark at the end of a statement shows me just how insecure you are and just how little your opinion needs to matter. Thanks for contributing to the discussion, bye bye now.

You just seems someone that want to find his meal ready, instead of doing it yourself.
7 days to die is one of the easier game where to make mods, they're literally xml documents quite self-explanatory with lots of annotations that explains what lines does what.

Like you said, some people are weak and smart, some are strong and dumb.... bye bye "enjoy" your game, if you can :)

I've modded Empire at War before I know how XML's work, but I also know that I have ADHD so I'm prone to make a mistake because I'm not passionate about it. I don't have an inborn love of modding, it's not something I want to do, so I know I'd do it poorly, or mess up with the code, and probably break my game lmao. I'm sorry for going off on you buddy but I hate it when people put question marks at the end of a statement. It's the pinnacle of things that piss me off, right next to "git gud bro". It's arrogantly dismissive and belittling.

[Spider]

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

Even the fact that every POI has been converted into some dungeon crawling experience is ridiculous. You can shoot a shotgun in one room, and fail to wake up zombies on the other side of the wall. That's just... Honestly that's really really bad, that's like literally terrible. That is the worst creative decision they could have committed to. Realism isn't their objective and yeah that rubs me the wrong way. But I'll be patient, modders will redeem the mistakes TFP have made. They'll provide the template, and modders will provide the true masterpiece.

You know what is realistic? Real life. If you are playing games for "realism" I think you chose the wrong hobby. I don't think I've played a single game of any genre or sub genre, that was ACTUALLY realistic. Come on, man. Use some common sense.

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by Spider:

Originally posted by Trunks_Budo:

Even the fact that every POI has been converted into some dungeon crawling experience is ridiculous. You can shoot a shotgun in one room, and fail to wake up zombies on the other side of the wall. That's just... Honestly that's really really bad, that's like literally terrible. That is the worst creative decision they could have committed to. Realism isn't their objective and yeah that rubs me the wrong way. But I'll be patient, modders will redeem the mistakes TFP have made. They'll provide the template, and modders will provide the true masterpiece.

You know what is realistic? Real life. If you are playing games for "realism" I think you chose the wrong hobby. I don't think I've played a single game of any genre or sub genre, that was ACTUALLY realistic. Come on, man. Use some common sense.

Well, he's not entirely wrong though... Not about the realism, but it does feel a bit janky. I get that there are good reasons why they had to do it this way, and I really hated the A16 clown car zombie swarms dropping out of an attic when you made a noise, but current POI sleeper volumes could really use a little work.