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They are corpses animated by the 'Supernatural'... And yes, That matters.
Definition of zombie
1a: a will-less and speechless human (as in voodoo belief and in fictional stories) held to have died and been supernaturally reanimated
2a: a person held to resemble the so-called walking dead
1a commentary: The enemies in game have apparently died; And have been reanimated in some way shape or form. They don't have any apparent self-ascribed will of their own; Only a driving desire guided by something to end human life. Nor do they speak.
2a commentary: The enemies in game definitely resemble the walking dead. They certainly don't look like traditionally living beings.
The linchpin of my defense here is... the definition of Supernatural.
Definition of supernatural
(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
Traditionally people take 'Supernatural' to mean 'Magical'; But that is not necessarily the case.
In short, The meaning of supernatural....Is something beyond our understanding of the laws of nature. Sufficiently advanced science would appear to the unknowing to be little more than.. Magic. The zombies in game have in fact been resurrected by scientific means- But we don't know How; The series of events and mechanics behind it are beyond our present understanding of the laws of nature- Making it a supernatural event.
And, Yknow horde night? Yeah- That's the one night a week that the zombies become 'connected' to one another and suddenly know where you are to come attack you. Guided by something..
So, To close out my statements..
The enemies in game are supernaturally raised zombies, guided by some kind of overarching hive mind.
The Defense rests.
Also since when do zombies not spread disease? You get bit by a zombie and turn into one. That´s 101 of Zombie lore. And yes that´s not how it is with the vodoo zombie. But the game clearly doesn´t follow that type of zombie lore.
And since when do zombies not eat their prey? Are you sure you have seen any zombie movie at all?
And with sience you mean a myth spread by a religion that is heavily influenced by christianity? Vodoo?
First - Contrary to what you claim, there's virtually no debate here about whether the enemies are zombies or mutants. There are many debates about what sort of zombie traits the zombies in the game should have, for example intelligent vs mindless, or run vs walk. But very few arguing about "mutants". You have fabricated this supposed "bickering" out of nothing.
I will attempt to help clear things up for you..
The zombies in this game are dead flesh. They do not need to breath. Their bodies are composed of rotting (dead) tissue. They can have injuries like being cut in half and still keep crawling along for what appears to be years or decades. And perhaps most importantly, the authors of the work call them zombies
Mutants are generally creatures which have significant genetic deviations from the parent's DNA. In popular gaming and movie terms, mutations usually involve obvious large scale morphological deviations such as large size, extra arms, 2 heads, etc. Or unusual powers (the x-men). Being dead is not a defining criteria of a mutant.
Looking at the topic pragmatically, mutants and zombies are whatever the content author decides they are in her fictional work. An author could decide her characters are dead zombies from space with x-men powers. Or she could decide her characters are re-animated 4 armed undead supermutant vampires.
It's fine to look on a work of art and impose your own meaning on it; perhaps even very different meaning than the author intended. That's part of what art is all about in the human experience. But that doesn't mean you can declare what other people should think about the work. And it's especially pointless and silly to declare that the author of the work is wrong about her own work. (TFP calls them zombies)
Ultimately - the artist gets to decide what the label is under his work of art no matter how much feet stamping it causes among fringe individuals.
Nice job. +1
The entities in this games are zombies. They are people who have died and later became reanimated by some means.
However you could easily make the claim that dome of the "living" animals (looking at you, dire wolf) are mutants, and even that some zombie forms are in fact mutant zombies, such as the screamer, spider or spitter.
DID they die though? We don't exactly see any buried corpses rising up (tho kinda the limitations of the zombie models) The crawler maybe being the closest? but it could have lost the lower half of it's body after turning, and I'm not sure the lore really references it.
The hospital is filled with bio-hazard body bags but none of them are open, implying they died of the infection spread by the 7dtd zombies and NON-ZOMBIE animals. It's not even implied that it's "the" zombie infection, it's just referred to as an infection. Could be any kind of wound infection at that point. bites from people and animals will almost always get infected in real life if not washed.
When the player is infected, it makes no specific reference to it being a zombie disease, stage 4 is death, and unlike Project zomboid there is nothing left behind to indicate the player character turned into a zombie.
In my headcannon what ever turned the humans and creatures into zombies has already happened and those that are now zombified ate it. I don't think there are any new zombies, but rather the majority of the population was turned by (Event) whether that be nuclear war or the nukes were dropped after in an attempt to quell the Z numbers.
But - they look undead, they are in various stages of dismemberment and decomposition, they act like zombies, the game refers to them as the dead, and most importantly the devs say they're zombies.
have you seen the recent high res art of them.
they are just walking fire.
they are not a fire zombie they are a fire elemantal.
For the record, I'm a TFP fanboy and have rec'd warnings from mods for things I've said in defending TFP. (They claim people have a right to express criticsm. Can you imagine?)
But first:
Telling me TFP says they're zombies makes it so, sounds like some little kid saying, "Because Mom said so." Doesn't mean it's right. Moms make a lot of mistakes and from what I read on the forums, people think TFP does also.
Authors can call anything zombies, if you let them. They can call a tricycle a train, if you let them. If TFP wants to call them zombies and you want to let them, by all means, do. I'm not intentionally calling them out on it. I am saying these are not zombies in any traditional sense and should've been presented as mutations (or something else) to begin with. If this were a book or a movie, I'd be making the same critique.
Honestly, I don't care what they are or from where they come. I love killin' 'em. We're here because there's all this discussion, in varying degrees, around how these creatures don't behave as zombies should. I'm saying, drop those expectations. They're not zombies and TFP shouldn't call them so.
Tagging them zombies invites the pre-conceived ideas of what zombies should do, based on some tv or movie adaptation. I saw a movie in which a vampire reached out and crushed a crucifix with his hand. Do I have to accept that all vampires are now immune to the power of the crucifix?
Much of what I'm hearing is arguing against the root definition based on your willingness to expand that definition. (or just basic fanboy/girl responses)
@Shurenai
"Zombies are not traditionally corpses animated through 'Magic'
They are corpses animated by the 'Supernatural'... And yes, That matters."
- Zombies are, indeed, traditionally animated through 'magic'. The root of zombie lore is Haitian/African. It is the belief, through ritual, the dead can be inhabited by a supernatural force and animated. The supernatural force, in this case, is spiritual. These creatures were no more than gollums or tools. They were animated not resurrected ...And yes, that matters.
"Definition of zombie
1a: a will-less and speechless human (as in voodoo belief and in fictional stories) held to have died and been supernaturally reanimated "
- because this references fiction, I tend to think it is influenced by same. I grant you, any reanimation is supernatural. Magic is supernatural.
"2a: a person held to resemble the so-called walking dead" <---who's definition?
- this has to be slang - not considered evidence
"1a commentary: The enemies in game have apparently died; And have been reanimated in some way shape or form. They don't have any apparent self-ascribed will of their own; Only a driving desire guided by something to end human life. Nor do they speak."
- Why do you say 'apparently'? They don't use language. They are capable of making sound. ...also important
"2a commentary: The enemies in game definitely resemble the walking dead. They certainly don't look like traditionally living beings."
- I agree. I made that point. Many of them don't look anything like a human that died and was re-animated. Some do, I admit. But as a group, they are a collection of oddities and don't resemble the 'walking dead' very much. Remember burning man?
"The linchpin of my defense here is... the definition of Supernatural.
Definition of supernatural
(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
Traditionally people take 'Supernatural' to mean 'Magical'; But that is not necessarily the case.
In short, The meaning of supernatural....Is something beyond our understanding of the laws of nature. Sufficiently advanced science would appear to the unknowing to be little more than.. Magic. The zombies in game have in fact been resurrected by scientific means- But we don't know How; The series of events and mechanics behind it are beyond our present understanding of the laws of nature- Making it a supernatural event."
- Any re-animation of a corpse would be a supernatural event, whether we call it magic or not. Magic is used in the creation of classic zombies, by definition. I agree that supernatural would include forces other than spellcasting.
"And, Yknow horde night? Yeah- That's the one night a week that the zombies become 'connected' to one another and suddenly know where you are to come attack you. Guided by something..
So, To close out my statements..
The enemies in game are supernaturally raised zombies, guided by some kind of overarching hive mind."
- Let me summarize your argument to see if I have understood. The 'zombies' are animated, through scientific means, by an unknown supernatural force. This force controls the zombies and through atmospheric manipulation, organizes them into an army every 7 days.
So a feasible scenario under that interpretation is Plan 9. Aliens resurrect the dead and take over Earth. Or the classic mad scientist or army research gone wrong. I mention those because of the bldg with 'zombies' in incubation chambers.
"The Defense rests."
- a good argument. If I stretch, I can make it fit but it's just too "what if" for me to say, "By golly, that must be it. Oh, how clever." I'm still inclined to say they are beyond zombies.
Activity takes energy. Muscle movement requires cells to burn fats or glucose. Cells need oxygen. For cells to obtain these things, a circulation system must deliver them. For the circulation system to function, the heart must be pumping and the lungs must be working. And we don't have a dead person any longer, do we? In order for blood to spew from dismemberments, there must be blood pressure, ergo a beating heart. In order for zombies to make any sound at all requires vocal cords and a working bellows, aka lungs and a diaphragm. Am I to believe the screamer shrieks in the metaphysical? Why can I hear it?
Zombies are moved only by the will of the power over them, be it a necromancer or spirit.
7DTD creatures exhibit all the signs of creatures with functioning systems aka living beings.
If we are to alter the definition of zombie to include those who were dead but now have beating hearts and working lungs, we have to call everyone who has been revived from death, a zombie or undead. "Well, Mom, the good news is the doctors saved you. The bad news is, you're undead now and I don't think the kids should spend time with you any more."
@pApA^LeGBa
"In case you aren´t convinced with the answer above, there is a big Z on the loot bags. And i am pretty sure they are called zombies in the tool tips somewhere. Also joel says "Thanks god a customer, i thought you were one of the dead"
- already addressed
"Also since when do zombies not spread disease? You get bit by a zombie and turn into one. That´s 101 of Zombie lore. And yes that´s not how it is with the vodoo zombie. But the game clearly doesn´t follow that type of zombie lore."
- 101 of zombie lore was established when? They're also supposedly especially fond of brains. Is that part of 101? Ghasts eat the living and the dead and spread disease. I'm glad you agree the game clearly doesn't follow voodoo zombie lore.
"And since when do zombies not eat their prey? Are you sure you have seen any zombie movie at all?"
- you're using movie adaptations for your perception of zombie behavior. I have seen many zombie movies; some done before NotLD. In those, zombies were mindless drones sent to perform some task.
"And with sience you mean a myth spread by a religion that is heavily influenced by christianity? Vodoo?"
- science as I used the term was a 'tongue-in-cheek' reference to the comparison between zombies and mutants
@JimmyIowa
"Someone saw my brief summary on the history of zombies in 20th century art."
- I don't think so but I did something you wrote about Romero.
"First - Contrary to what you claim, there's virtually no debate here about whether the enemies are zombies or mutants. There are many debates about what sort of zombie traits the zombies in the game should have, for example intelligent vs mindless, or run vs walk. But very few arguing about "mutants". You have fabricated this supposed "bickering" out of nothing."
- And you have misinterpreted and misrepresented what I said. I'm the one who proposed debate over zombie vs mutant because of threads and posts I've read, which, as described by you, discuss zombie behaviors. I contend all that discussion is moot. 7DTD creatures far exceed traditional zombies.
In many of those threads, some antagonistic person will invariably jump in and make an attack on the OP with bogus info and malicious intent and the bickering begins.
"I will attempt to help clear things up for you.."
- trust me. It's clear what your intent is.
"The zombies in this game are dead flesh. They do not need to breath. Their bodies are composed of rotting (dead) tissue. They can have injuries like being cut in half and still keep crawling along for what appears to be years or decades. And perhaps most importantly, the authors of the work call them zombies"
- Are they dead flesh? They exhibit all the signs of living beings, with one exception, they seemingly can't drown. And I firmly believe that is only so we can't build a base in the middle of a lake. But they breath and bleed.
"Mutants are generally creatures which have significant genetic deviations from the parent's DNA."
-correct
"In popular gaming and movie terms, mutations usually involve obvious large scale morphological deviations such as large size, extra arms, 2 heads, etc. Or unusual powers (the x-men)."
-oh, you mean like cops and spiders and creatures that dig thru concrete?
"Being dead is not a defining criteria of a mutant."
- agreed
"Looking at the topic pragmatically, mutants and zombies are whatever the content author decides they are in her fictional work. An author could decide her characters are dead zombies from space with x-men powers. Or she could decide her characters are re-animated 4 armed undead supermutant vampires."
- already addressed
"It's fine to look on a work of art and impose your own meaning on it; perhaps even very different meaning than the author intended. That's part of what art is all about in the human experience. But that doesn't mean you can declare what other people should think about the work. And it's especially pointless and silly to declare that the author of the work is wrong about her own work. (TFP calls them zombies)"
- already addressed
"Ultimately - the artist gets to decide what the label is under his work of art no matter how much feet stamping it causes among fringe individuals."
- why do you have to go there? No one is stamping their feet and the implication I'm some kinda freak is exactly what I referred to earlier. It's verbal assault used to draw people into a fight. This is an open discussion meant for reasonably minded people. Please do not participate further.
Mods, please note I am taking the high road and not retaliating.
@Gwizz - TY
All you others, I'll have to get to after dinner.
You do care to some degree, or this thread would not be here.
That vampire example you shared does not help your argument as much as you think it does. It shows that vampires are not always depicted the same way, just like zombies are not always depicted the same way.
In this game, you can easily argue the case that some of the zombies have mutated. (possibly due to radiation or whatever made them zombies in the first place)
Who knows, maybe they are all mutated zombies.
Either way, just because they don't behave how zombies are sometimes depicted, does not mean they can't be zombies.
(look up insect zombies)
Sadly for you the jury has already spoken on this matter, and I'm sorry but this was not a nice job and doesn't deserve a plus anything. They're considered zombies in 7 Days to Die, period.