The Castle Doctrine

The Castle Doctrine

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Super_maçoN Feb 2, 2014 @ 5:55pm
How to deal with layout changes when you're off line ?
So here's my current issue.

I make a house, rob a little, got some money etc... Everything go fine and slowly no problem.

Then i go off line, stop playing.

When i log back in ( for my last game, maybe 4h00 after ) i find my house destroyed and empty.

Here's the story of video tapes :

The money start to flow, i can't make any changes as i'm not playing.
The wife is now a valid target if someone get a gun. So a first guy manage to kill her then go out.
At that point i still have the fund to make my house running again but i'm not playing so my house is still accessible and the house is broken ( a dog killed, you're free to scout ), but the traps keep doing their jobs, and the money flow until my house worth 10 000$ ( a personal record ! ( Sad point is, i coulnd't even try to to something with that money )

So another guy come in, he scout and spot that the child are alive. So he get back with a a good amount of supply he just has to destroyed everything he can a shoot a child. Next time he'll get back, the damage will be saved.

The problem is, if i was playing i could get away, keep making a story, keep playing. But nobody can play 24/24.



Maybe we could have our houses go "off line" unavailable to the other players when the layout is permanently changed some way ( family members killed, walls destroyed etc... ), so we can use our money to make the best out of it instead watching the tapes of a house getting smashed player after player.

I can't build a house with 2000$ that will resist a 10 000$ hunter without investing some money back into the layout. Maybe we could even think of step, you house reach 5000$, wait a little and allow the player to get back.

I don't know, maybe i'm missing a point here, maybe i don't rob enought but i hope the game allow us to play at our own rhythm and still progress.
Last edited by Super_maçoN; Feb 2, 2014 @ 6:04pm
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Showing 1-15 of 56 comments
nah, jason likes the emotional aspect of returning to your house to find everything in shambles, and i have to admit, i think it's pretty cool too, so i don't think he'll change that any time soon.
ArkasRift Feb 2, 2014 @ 6:14pm 
I get that, but I've yet to have a house last more then 5 hours offline...

The self-test deaths, robbing deaths and having to rebuild was a little frustrating but totally my fault. But building a house to come back to $0 every time after 5 hours is actually starting to hit the point where I'm losing interest in the game.

I really think if permanent damage is done to your house then at that point it shouldn't be robbable until you log back in.

I've spent about 9 hours in game, and when I finally finally get to a point where I'm starting to feel comfortable with starting up, I realize there's no point in even doing anything.

This game is slowly turning into Wasting Your Time Simulator 2014.
Originally posted by Arkas624:
I get that, but I've yet to have a house last more then 5 hours offline...

i've had a house that lasted 3 days before some dude bombed me to hell when i was offline, so it's possible to have a decent build last a while.

Originally posted by Arkas624:
I've spent about 9 hours in game, and when I finally finally get to a point where I'm starting to feel comfortable with starting up, I realize there's no point in even doing anything.

This game is slowly turning into Wasting Your Time Simulator 2014.

i'm conflicted because i feel the same way in some sense, but the sad truth is, aren't all video games a waste of time? i'm sure realizing everything is futile in the castle doctrine is a deliberate game design choice by jason, although i think you can accomplish this without sacrificing balanced gameplay.
ArkasRift Feb 2, 2014 @ 6:28pm 
Originally posted by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton:
Originally posted by Arkas624:
I get that, but I've yet to have a house last more then 5 hours offline...

i've had a house that lasted 3 days before some dude bombed me to hell when i was offline, so it's possible to have a decent build last a while.

Originally posted by Arkas624:
I've spent about 9 hours in game, and when I finally finally get to a point where I'm starting to feel comfortable with starting up, I realize there's no point in even doing anything.

This game is slowly turning into Wasting Your Time Simulator 2014.

i'm conflicted because i feel the same way in some sense, but the sad truth is, aren't all video games a waste of time? i'm sure realizing everything is futile in the castle doctrine is a deliberate game design choice by jason, although i think you can accomplish this without sacrificing balanced gameplay.

I think I might make a seperate post to clarify a bit and hopefully put some more issues I've got with the game. But to me a game should be fun. I honestly had a ton of fun up till now (and to me 9 hours of fun is definitely worth the price so I obviously am not fishing for a refund).

But right now, it honestly seems like there's no actual point in playing the game. There is no "reward" to me for the time I'm putting in. Even in games like Dark Souls, Binding of Isaac, etc etc, there is a reward knowing that each death makes you better and better and you'll eventually reach the "end". With this game the only reward I see is getting lucky not to get your house bombed overnight and get to start over fresh.

It also just feels really really cheap to me to have someone come in, kill my wife, destroy half my traps and then die, and I STILL lose half my money and then some other guy comes in and gets an easy vault to take the rest 30 minutes later.

I mean in all honesty what's the point in playing the game anymore? It's either rob a bunch for an hour or so until I die to a house above my tool level, or build a house for an hour to login and see all the money I made and lost in the last 5 hours.

The ONLY way I see to be successful at the game is either play the game nonstop for an entire day so you can spend the money immediately as it comes in, or leave the game running 24/7 so you never risk getting robbed (though I'm sure jason likely has some idle script that auto logs you off after so long anyways). Or finally to just get extremely lucky that nobody comes in to rob your $5k value house thats built on $1200.

I mean in all honesty I'm half tempted to try spending all my available cash every time before I log off on tools, put them in my backpack and then log out as a $0 house and sell it all each time I log in. I'll lose half the money, but at least then I MIGHT get lucky and have a house last long enough for me to at least enjoy it a slight bit.
Portwills Feb 2, 2014 @ 6:39pm 
ITS THE CASTLE DOCTRINE YOU BECOME OBSESSED WITH THINGS U POSSESS WHEN U DONT LOOK AT IT YOU THINK ABOUT ALL THE TIME

ps: on 30 people i killed about 20 only one managed to rob me but still had about 5000-6000 money and then i moved my wife and children to make them safer, later when i tested got shotgunned by my wife and lost everything. included my life. to the castle doctrine. its 1991 , if things are bad make yourself feel better thinking that there's always worst elsewhere. 1991 . what a year
Originally posted by Arkas624:
But to me a game should be fun.

see, this is where i disagree a LOT, because i don't think a game should be "fun", especially if it's trying to prove a point, however i think a game shouldn't martyr its game design for a greater artistic purpose when you can make the same point without doing that.

Originally posted by Arkas624:
There is no "reward" to me for the time I'm putting in.

i disagree with this too, as the intense emotional impact of the game is a great reward, and solely the main reason why i still adore this game, even though it falls apart at higher level play.

as for the rest of your complaints, the game is really really hard, yes, but i think that's a positive for the game as this amplifies the emotional impact when youre finally successful and makes you extremely paranoid to lose it all. the first time i've gotten to the first page of houses i had an adrenaline rush every time i tested my house because i really did not want to seal myself in my own tomb. it's still a shame however that eventually you come to realize that there's only so much you can do until someone will eventually blast you away with bombs, but again the futility of the game is a deliberate game design decision by jason to make a point through gameplay, which is both cool to me and disappointing too.
dubesor Feb 2, 2014 @ 6:42pm 
yep that's another reason why this game is simply not enjoyable. I get the whole "emotions" of your house being shattered and stuff. And it's fun to see the tapes and see what caused the havoc. But leaving your entire house demolished with $0 in your bank so you can't rebuild anything nor go robbing due to 0 access to tools is not acceptable. It's simply frustrating and unfun. And when a GAME puts FUN behind everything else then you know it's time to move on (like I did).

I actually had the exact same thing OP mentioned happen to me. Build a decent house, robbed some people successfully, enhanced it, saw tapes, fixed weaknesses, enhanced it more, spent most money +implemented a lot of commit traps to not be too desirable for thieves. I go to bed and the first ~20 robbers all fail, increasing my net worth by 10k. Then you get the guys coming in with tools, weapons killing your family and thus opening the doors for future burglaries. Then another guy comes, scouts the area, sees defect traps, dead dogs etc and comes back with massive amount of tools to finish off the rest stealing everything. And there is absolutely nothing you can do about this, except for checking in on your house every 90 minutes. Thanks but no thanks. Frustration is the theme of the game, when it should be Fun.
Portwills Feb 2, 2014 @ 6:47pm 
when my wife shot me i shouted noooo" in front of my screen and at that moment felt really angry at myself for being careless and losing everything like that, especially after all the efforts . and now even worst is im afraid people are gonna get wise and it's gonna get harder and harder to make money. life's so hard bro
and jason watch over us and smiles because he achieved to create a virtual world of despair where we have no choice but to brutalize each others for the joy of the cameras and come home after a hard day work and see our family murdered and whatnot but what can i say, tomorrow i'll just come back and see if people still fall for my traps i guess
this argument about games should be fun is also really bumming me out. games don't have to be fun. the castle doctrine isn't a bad game because it's not fun, it just has a few fundamental balance flaws. i wouldn't call counter-strike a "fun" game, but it's definitely emotionally rewarding because of how high level competitive it is, which is the same rush you get from the castle doctrine. the actual problem here is that it throws the high level competitive balance away to make an artistic message when you can make the same message without doing that.
ArkasRift Feb 2, 2014 @ 6:57pm 
Originally posted by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton:
Originally posted by Arkas624:
But to me a game should be fun.

see, this is where i disagree a LOT, because i don't think a game should be "fun", especially if it's trying to prove a point, however i think a game shouldn't martyr its game design for a greater artistic purpose when you can make the same point without doing that.

Originally posted by Arkas624:
There is no "reward" to me for the time I'm putting in.

i disagree with this too, as the intense emotional impact of the game is a great reward, and solely the main reason why i still adore this game, even though it falls apart at higher level play.

as for the rest of your complaints, the game is really really hard, yes, but i think that's a positive for the game as this amplifies the emotional impact when youre finally successful and makes you extremely paranoid to lose it all. the first time i've gotten to the first page of houses i had an adrenaline rush every time i tested my house because i really did not want to seal myself in my own tomb. it's still a shame however that eventually you come to realize that there's only so much you can do until someone will eventually blast you away with bombs, but again the futility of the game is a deliberate game design decision by jason to make a point through gameplay, which is both cool to me and disappointing too.

The problem is I can't get past a point to give me any intense emotional impact other then frustration. Trust me, I usually love frustratingly hard games. But the key to those games is what I call "fairness" for lack of a better term. Usually my death is caused by me messing up somewhere. Up until this point that had been the case, I either built my starter house and got too greedy and tried to rob houses I shouldn't, or died to my own traps being careless, etc etc.

I finally got to a point where I was playing carefully, built a house that wasn't a quick cash grab for other players, and even robbed a few really small houses to make minor improvements. Then I logged off to go watch the Super Bowl. Literally my house value went from $400 to $10k in that 2 hours. Yay for me I guess, except to login, see someone kill my wife, and proceed to die on the way out.

The funny thing was that wasnt even the end, he killed her and got only $1k, but about 20 other people were able to try my house after that, bringing my house value up ridiculously until someone with a full set of tools came in and just demolished my house.

Again, this is a house that was built on maybe $2k max (adding the extra cash from my small robberies). There is no way you EVER could have a house protected enough for $2k for the tools people are going to bring in attacking a $10k house.

Honestly, that's not fair, its just pure blind luck. I mean seriously, the only way to be successful at the game is log in every 20 minutes? Thats just not fun at all.

And I still think it's 100% total ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t that someone can kill my wife and die on my traps and I STILL lose the money. What did the dogs eat it off his dead body or something?
Portwills Feb 2, 2014 @ 6:57pm 
you know what maybe there's an interesting philosophy that when you're poor you're happier in this game, but then the problem is that there would be nothing to do then. maybe jason should add a public park where we can walk and chat with each other, but then people would always be saying "Ill be back quickly ill go check over my house, see if my wife is still alive"
there's one guy who came in my house and as soon as he came he hang himself over the welcome mat, it cracked me up
and then again even if you're poor and have no gold, i'd be curious to see if some rich maniac would come in just for the thrill of it and kill all your family
ArkasRift Feb 2, 2014 @ 6:59pm 
I mean honestly, the last 2-3 "deaths" for me have been this same thing. Play the game for about 1-2 hours, build up a "decent' starting house, to log off and decide to check it later to see the exact same thing happen. The only "mistake" I see myself making there is not logging into the game every 30 minutes. And if thats the only way to be "good" at the game, I'm sort of thinking no thanks, I'd rather play something else at this point.
Portwills Feb 2, 2014 @ 7:01pm 
the way i see it, now i lost everything but tomorrow i'll come back and try to beat my highscore
Darxio Feb 2, 2014 @ 7:03pm 
It gets interesting if you keep your wife alive.

So lets say you get robbed, but your wife is really well protected and safe. You lose all your vault money and vault tools.

However, unlike a wifeless setup, you're still shown on the list thanks to your wife's wallet.

If you now have a 'broken' house that can't be solved tool-less, money will begin to flow in again. You can make back some of your loses(With high money totals, it's unlikely you'll surpass your original total).

Goes to show wives are more important than people think. Not kids really, but the wife is awesome.
ArkasRift Feb 2, 2014 @ 7:05pm 
Originally posted by Portwills:
the way i see it, now i lost everything but tomorrow i'll come back and try to beat my highscore

You sound like where I was a few days ago. I still really was enjoying the game then. Because my "deaths" were usually my fault. Just wait till you get to a point where literally if you log off for more then 2 hours you login to a "welp guess its time to suicide again".

It was sort of funny the first time, like man, I actually did pretty decently, if only that guy hadn't shown up. But when its happening every single time at this point, it's honestly just totally killing any motivation to even play the game for me.
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