Verdun > General Discussions > Topic Details
M2H_Mike  [developer] Sep 8, 2014 @ 3:07am
Feedback needed! Squad level, Role level, Career level!?
Hi all,

We need your feedback about how we implement various levels in the game. While the current leveling is not implemented 100% as intended I'll first explain what we had in mind for the game right now and then explain what we're considering to change.

As intended right now:
1. Squad level
One big unique feature of Verdun is the Squad level. You gain co-op xp which is saved between friends. I can play with 'Bob' today and reach level squad level 10, as soon as he leaves I'm back to squad level 1 I play with 'Alice' and reach level 5. If I start a new match tomorrow with both Bob and Alice I start at about squad level 14 since all co-op XP is added.
We do not want to change this, but we do very much need to explain and improve this.
Unlocks: Squad passive abilities, better NCO mortar etc.

2. Role level
Role leveling unlocks new weapon specialization. It's intended that you can complete this in 1 match (15-60 minutes for a complete role unlock?). Currently it's taking much longer though(!).
There are currently 4 squads with 4 roles each, so you would be able to complete 4x16 roles (and more coming when we add new squads)/
Unlocks: Weapon specialization (mostly minor changes)

3. Personal level
Currently displayed in highscores. Raises with XP etc.
Unlocks: bragging right only

4. Weapon level
Best visible in Rifle Deatmatch(FFA)
Unlocks: When leveling up a weapon fully you can unlock a new FFA rifle to play with.

Changes we're considering:

1. Squad level
Current problem: No one gets it and it's too hard to play with the same people often. Making you lose progress a lot.
  • -We will add a tutorial about the squads, the co-op XP and the squad roles.
  • -There needs to be a difference between (favorite) friends and regular players you've played with (this worked great in an earlier GUI version). Friend joining will get clearer and easier.
  • -Will still not affect weapon unlocks, as it's annoying to lose those.
  • -Because of the changes to the other levels(2,3,4 - below) we can explain the squad level easier.

2. Role level
Problem: Having role levels inside squads (with a squad level) is very hard to communicate.
    - We want to nerf the role leveling. It's only used for weapon specializations, which are minor variations and only existing to give alternatives in case someone is forced to use a weapon they don't want (sniper, MG, pistol). Therefore we would stop calling it a 'level' (1-100) and instead name it Role I, Role II, Role III, Role IV. Furthermore since it's so minor we wouldn't have to communicate about it often since it should be easy to grasp.
    - We could also consider to completely remove role leveling in favor of simplicity. The weapon specialization would then always be available to address the problem when people are forced to use a certain weapon.
3. Personal level
Problem: It doesn't do anything but bragging rights.
Possible changes:
  • -A) We're thinking of replacing it with a 'career progress' level. This is basically made up of completing all parts of the game (fully leveling all available roles, unlocking all FFA weapons, etc.) E.g. unlocking all current squad roles and levels would get you 100% completion, level 80 for example. Might we add new content that would bring this career progress even higher.
  • -B) Remove it completely and display role level in highscore? But the role level is capped at 4/4... No bragging rights?
  • -C) keep as is: use an XP system: the longer you play the higher this level gets due to various actions

4. Weapon level
Problems: Confusing, it doesn't do anything except it being a requirement for unlocking new rifles.
    - We'll remove the weapon level. Instead, for the rifle unlocks, we'll use the medal/achievement system that is coming soon. E.g. unlocking rifle 2 you are required to earn at least a Bronze medal on your first rifle.We're pretty sure this would make much more sense.
Please tell us how you would like the 4 different level systems to work.
Last edited by M2H_Mike; Sep 8, 2014 @ 3:14am
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Showing 1-15 of 162 comments
Bishop Sep 8, 2014 @ 3:34am 
2. I'd say go wit hthe first option, help ease the learning curv if there's no tutorial and helps keep some weapons less common E.g. MP-18.

Does this also mean we wont see other unlocks? such as a Landser squad getting a SMLE?

3. combined completion would be good. will still get confused with people being more poerful and having better advantages though. Remove it and then people will complain that there's no progress tracking.

4. nooooooooooooooo after all that time trying to level up all my weapons >.< :P would need to know about the medal system to really comment.
flucker Sep 8, 2014 @ 3:49am 
1. Squad level
This sucks mainly because I'm a nomadic member. I've no real squad to be with let alone many friends to play this game with. But then again I haven't got better ideas.

2. Role level
Add a tutorial; the n00bs will learn.

3. Personal level
A) is a great idea. However, I think the veterans should get to keep their badges and stuff.

4. Weapon level
Clarification needed.
Pyrron Sep 8, 2014 @ 3:53am 
1)I would fully agree on the squadlevel, it works as intented and i like the fact that it actually takes some time to get it higher while still not being un-achievable, a tutorial for new players to help them fully understand it is evidently a good idea. I think i did mentioned either here on the forums or to Leo in the game that i would want to have the system to favour friends on the list back so i'm happy to hear about that.

2) I find the idea of the role specializations always being available straight from the start as appealing, however i think exceptions should be made in the cases of captured equipment, would want to see all the French running around with Gewehr 98 again (maybe have an unlock related to one of the other levels).

3) Option C it is for me but i'd keep it with slight deviations, possibly push the level limit higher or make the leveling slower (i think id be 100 ten times over by now) and maybe award medals for reaching a certain personal level, for better, more shinier bragging rights. What would also be possible is to give other optical rewards such as your uniform getting more dirty (not talking changing the uniform, that could still stay as squad unlock) to show your a veteran, or as above mentioned to gain access to captured equipment.

4) As you said would probably as of now the best solution. Personally i'd like it best if the Free-For-All with not only rifles were to be re-introduced (maybe as an additional gamemode) and use the same unlock system for pistols, grenades and mgs.
Shadow Sep 8, 2014 @ 4:15am 
Hi Mike, thx for asking our input on this. I'm not a big fan of grinding in games so I am in favor of removing all unlocking mechanisms.

The current role levels take veeeery long to unlock and I find it weird to start out as an "MG-Schütze" without an MG, Sniper without a scope etc.. Also I didn't understand this system for a long time leading to me trying out different classes and finding all that had a rifle very interchangable. Because of that it took very long to make 1 single role specialization unlock.
I think making the specializations available right from the start to give people alternative choices is the way to go and a great idea.
When I learned how the current sytem works I tried to get a scope with the Alpenjäger Scharfschütze and it was very hard to find matches where that exact role was playable for me at all. I was very often stuck with role choices I didn't really want. Since Alpenjägers are so unpopular as a squad choice it's hard to play them at all and I don't like the Gewehr98's ironsights.
Also I find the scope unlock a pretty powerful option (you can shoot people that can't even see you at that distance) and I'm generally not in favor of rewarding only more experience players with more powerful options. I'm not saying it's OP as it really sucks having the scope at short range, but I find it problematic to give this only to people who are experienced already.

For that reason I also don't really like the squad level implementation either. People that play together regularly, possibly using voice chat, will always be better coordinated and efficient as a team. Giving them damage bonuses etc. (don't know what this really unlocks) isn't logical to me. Also it punishes everyone that has no friends playing the game and no time/interest to find people online to play with regularly. I don't know how it is for other people here, but for me it is ridiculously hard to get 3 of my friends together for ANY online game, even if several of my friends play the game regularly. A 4 people match is a very rare occasion and I couldn't even get more than 2 of my friends to buy verdun at all. And none of them plays regularly.
I would like the squad level to only unlock swag (new helmets, uniforms, weapon skins) and xp-boosting passive abilities like NCO-command-range and radius of the command-aura.
For the record: I found it easier to understand how squad level xp rises (though I didn't really understand what that gets us) than understanding how role xp works.

I never really understood what you planned the rifle deathmatch to be. When I first started the game my thoughts were "Let's figure out the controls and try all the weapons first, FFA deathmatch seems perfect for this. Oh, I can choose only 1 weapon, well I'll take the Kar98 since that is the only one I know from other games. Great, now I'm stuck with it for hours of grinding till I can play something else". Good thing was that I actually like the Kar, but I don't see the point of this system in Deathmatches at all. The gamemode is sadly so unpopular at the moment that on EU servers I quite often see 0 people playing it. On a good day it's maybe 8 or so. I don't see what this mode is supposed to be except trying out all the rifles to be prepared for the "real" game that a more significant number of people are actually playing.

I like the "bragging rights only" approach to personal level. When I get killed over and over by a level 100 dude it hurts a little less than if it is a level 1 noob. I don't care what raises this level (xp, achievements, play time, whatever)

If you want to use unlocking mechanics to incentivize people following their NCO's orders and therefore give XP bonuses to that, I could imagine another way to achive this. You could make role specializations available for everyone right from the start, but give each specialization a bonus perk that gets unlocked during a match from the score you get during that match only. That would be a great motivation to follow NCO's orders right from the start to get for e.g. 2 grenades instead of 1, more MG ammo, pistol as additional sidearm, mortar/recon plane for nco, scope for sniper, etc..

I would like to have a choice between different rifles independent of the two squad types. To be honest I think you should get rid of the two squad types altogether. I always found that system to be in the way of what role I want to play in a game and I don't see any advantages.

Keep up the great work! I'm looking forward to the next iteration of the leveling system.
☢ Fox-1 ☢ (Banned) Sep 8, 2014 @ 4:17am 
This is a RPG inthe Forum? =D

3 - C
Make ppl have a Panel of weapon, depends the "type"
Make possibility to switch gaz/obs/arty with the experience...
Make possibility to switch some weapons or not with the experience
Squad experience is a scame, we don't need it....the natural exp should prime !

Make your game "intuitive and rich" weapon system.... and of course, when you have a hight level you can choose to mak eyour own combot.

Permis, also, players to see what you can unlock for giving them the envy do play and win exp...
You can make a system of XP to buy your weapon and unlock extra supplies, equipements, stuffs etc !!!

[KK]Mancom37 Sep 8, 2014 @ 4:17am 
1)Since I started playing verdun I could never achieve a squad with a level that could get even a NCO artillery option,I completely agree we should get some changes there but like you sayed you don t really think in doing it.I think about permanent squads but I am afraid that will just cause grinding and overall disavantage to other squads with a low level.

2)Many people think the roles need to be nerfed,I think they shouldn t,if you read my guide you will see each "kit" has different traits that can help a lot and should stay the amount of time it takes to unlock,if for example we do it we will have Grenadiers going with the kit 3 and spam grenades everywhere,the role leveling should stay like it is.

3)Option C,no comments to be made.(but I would love to have a medal system :p)

4)We should keep the weapon leveling has it is,just add a badge and medal system.For example kill 10 people with a Rifle Badge,Kill 20 enemies in a match with long shoots you get a precision badge.Then the medals you get these when you get a certain objective that is hard to get and it could go different from each faction,french: War Cross to Legion of Honour,German The different models of the Iron Cross,for the british/canadians from The 1914 Star to the victoria cross.
[SFW]BadgerFace Sep 8, 2014 @ 4:26am 
1) Squad Level: I would keep the current squad leveling of having to play with people regularly. However, I would make everything that squad leveling unlocks at a lower level. Therefore you wouldn't have to spend too much getting other people to play with you. But I would not do anything to change the current XP gained from squad level already. As an player who has already reached a squad level of 40 with another player, I would not be happy if it were to be removed.

2) Class Level: I would keep the classes the same, but make it so that having some sort of rifle (Kar98, Lebel, etc.) can always be an option in Frontlines. Especially when you are a Commander in an infantry squad and are stuck with just a pistol, this can be really tough when playing on maps like Flanders.

3) Personal Level: I would not change the current process of gaining personal levels. But, I would change what it unlocks. Maybe some sort of character cosmetics. Nothing like a special gun.

4) Gun Level: I would add more gun customization into Frontlines. There already is gun customization on Rifle Deathmatch that allows you to add things such as bayonets, stripper clips, and scopes. If you could make it so that you could add bayonets and stripper clips to any gun in Frontlines, it would add more use to gun leveling.

5) Comments: I would also add an offline map that allows player to test certain guns, sort of like a shooting range with moving targets. This is so players can get the hang of leading targets and bullet drop before going into an online game.
Killed In Action Sep 8, 2014 @ 4:31am 
1. Squad level
I'm a nomad too... I think many of the players are and they cannot use this function entirely. I'm always find myself in a level 1 squad, however my persional level is around 40...

2. Role level
A tutorial is needed so badly. I think it would boost the players' numers.

3. Persional level
I would love to see military insignia on the players' modells.
Level 1 - private with "new" uniform
Level 2 - private with dirty uniform
Level X - sergeant with "new" uniform

4. Weapon level
I don't care.
RandalMcdaniel Sep 8, 2014 @ 4:32am 
Your 4 phases of leveling has already got me confused. Im not even going to read all that. I think you need to keep it simple. Getting a certain class to level 90 is just a little impossible.

Once i reach level 60 i get a handgun but lose my freaking rifle?? How is that even a reward?

I get up to level 30 and you give me a rifle with 5 less rounds per clip... uhhh what?

Vincent_8798 Sep 8, 2014 @ 4:39am 
1)I can say that I agree with the tutorial idea, even if I hate seeing some squads with a uniform, and some with another

2)I agree with the first idea

3)I agrre with the career idea, you could make it similar to Red Orchestra

4)I think that this will be better than the actual mode
Äxxxl Sep 8, 2014 @ 4:52am 
I like Killed in Action's uniform idea a lot!
Bishop Sep 8, 2014 @ 5:21am 
Originally posted by RandalMcdaniel:
Your 4 phases of leveling has already got me confused. Im not even going to read all that. I think you need to keep it simple. Getting a certain class to level 90 is just a little impossible.

Once i reach level 60 i get a handgun but lose my freaking rifle?? How is that even a reward?

I get up to level 30 and you give me a rifle with 5 less rounds per clip... uhhh what?
4 phase leveling replaces the 100 levels to just 4.

they aren't ment ot be upgrades, only 1 loadout has a pistol doesn't have it's "upgrade" and that's a knife. Most you exchange a rifle for pistol and extra grenades. The Lebel was replaced by the French military with the 3 shot Berthier rifle as the Lebel was out dated for the war. Personally I find the Berthier a better fit as it's much quicker loading which makes up for a small mag.
Tasty x3 Sep 8, 2014 @ 5:27am 
Maybe you should completely remove squad level since many people if not most play solo, attach the unlocks to personal level (like new uniforms ects.), people would like to create sort of their own soldier with different skins as well I guess.
But try to keep weapon unlocks for a class (like in Battlefield 2 and 3 maybe), but with more options, you might even consider more rare or exotic weapons to keep the players more motivated.
Last edited by Tasty x3; Sep 8, 2014 @ 5:27am
Bougie Beef BoI Sep 8, 2014 @ 5:38am 
ugh i thought today for sure when i looked on fb that verdun would have an update, and they do but not the one i was looking for sadly (wanna use that damn smle). Anyways idk i get the squad system now and its ok so perhaps just the tutorial is needed.

For rifle leveling i cant say as you will be doing the ribbone system at some point.

For personal levels honestly just keep them as a showing of veterancy and bragging rights.

For roles i think that perhaps enemy tooken weapons should be compltetly tooken outta the game. And perhaps just have more attachments available for your factions guns in the remaining spots.
Volunteer Sep 8, 2014 @ 5:58am 
It would be nice to have an easy to understand and readily recognisable gui which clearly states the direction from which to expect the enemy to be attacking from!

The game presently is becoming more of a twitch shooting contest. If that trend continues then Verdun will lose appeal for players who want to be more stealthy!
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Verdun > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Sep 8, 2014 @ 3:07am
Posts: 162