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Lieutenants?
Imagine if there were commanding officers for each side?

A leader of NCOs, if you will. NCOs can spawn on him, but it takes longer than for other soldiers to spawn on the NCO or to spawn at the original spawn location (so maybe a spawn every 3-5 or so). Might be good for larger maps or to add a layer of strategy to the game.

Eg. An Lt. could plan an assault, where all the NCOs spawn on him at the same time, and then each of them move into a position that he outlines. It wouldn't be dynamic - basically, he outlines a position on the map that he's able to show only when he's near to an NCO, perhaps?

So the NCOs have to move into his command range for a brief period in order to receive orders, as it were; after that, they go about their business. This is because having an outlined plan would be a tremendous advantage, IMO.

Would be cool for more Roleplay heavy games too.

Also, the NCO leader gets a sword as a melee wep, because historical accuracy!
Last edited by nofreewill; Feb 13 @ 9:38am
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
sfh0525 Feb 12 @ 8:09am 
I think this game's frontline x64 mode need more change than simply map size changes/bots/2x8x4 role.
Current game play is a mess... Everyone fights for his own.
We may need some look into games like RO/RS series. TL-SL-squad roles. Also, now, we have tooo many squads and too many automatic weapons is not really good. Probably decrease squad count and make 6~8 role in a squad is better.
But this game is a fast paced and "arcade" FPS game. I dont know what devs going to do to current gameplay. But more things must to be changed to fit x64 game!
some long time ago I suggested that the 1914-1918 Series might be better in the future if factions were based around platoons and not squads. the platoon was typically ran by a lieutenant and sections within the platoon had sergeants or corporals in charge, so one lieutenant per platoon would be accurate.

platoon sizes varied during the great war depending not only upon nationality but also upon year. platoons tended to get smaller as the war continued and 1918 platoons varied by nationality in numbers between 36 to 60 soldiers. in other words some future 1914-1918 Series based around platoons would probably need at least a 70 template and maybe the 120 template.

one thing to keep in mind is that highly trained soldiers like hand grenade specialists, rifle grenade specialists, and automatic rifle (chauchat, for example) specialists were not evenly distributed or spread around within the ww1 rifle squads. those weapon specialists were in organized sections of the platoon based around unique skills distinct from the rifle squads of the platoon. for example, a section of dedicated hand grenade specialists might feature two skilled throwers each given a vest or a sack along with six or more grenades, two grenade carriers who resupplied the throwers and took over throwing duties if the throwers fell in action, and four riflemen who helped scout and provide cover for the throwers, or eight soldiers in that hand grenade specialist section led by some sergeant or corporal nco which was but a part of a platoon and introducing such hand grenade sections around 1915 for most nations.

in ww1 it was the platoon and not the squads which was considered the integral fighting unit. in many cases attack waves were organized by platoon.

i think one lieutenant per faction would work, but the game would have to reconsider platoons for lieutenants to take their historical roles.
Last edited by biggalloot; Feb 12 @ 7:15pm
Hi, for example:
In Post Scriptum (tactical WW2 shooter) you have Squads with 9 soldiers in different classes (NCO, MG, heavy or light anti-tank, Pioneer, Sniper, Medic, Rifleman, Light Mortar, Grenadier and Radioman). All squads are under the command of a platoon commander who can order artillery or air strikes. He orders the squads to different positions, attack or defend.

I don't know if Verdun has the potential for a tactik shooter, but some maps are big enough and with 64 men you can do it. It can be a new feeling to fight in a real team, but can Verdun convertate to a tactik shooter ?


Greetings from an old soldier
77er
Last edited by 77er Infanterist; Feb 12 @ 9:20am
The good thing about squads I found is that squad roles limit the number of weapons on the battlefield. If one weapon is overpowered, then not everyone can load out with that weapon, due to squad roles limiting what weapons exist for what player.

However, if the game were to abandon squad roles altogether for 64 player maps (maybe keep it for 32 player; for those that like arcade gameplay*), then maybe another way to limit weapons could exist? Players get a certain number of 'load out points' and they spend them to use a weapon each time they spawn. They get more load out points for finding resources on the map, such as ammo pick ups; which could be a side objective to the main one.

Players that want better weapons will be hunting for pick ups, but there will have to be those that contribute to the main objective in order to gain personal score and win the game. Players are still given incentive to complete the main objective beyond that, as it awards squad XP.

Roles would still exist in the form of weapon load outs. Players would need to commit more, if they have spend load out points to acquire them. If the game had a meta aspect to it, then maybe score in a match could carry over into load out points in other maps - but only for 'tournament' type games (if those ever exist).

*I like it too personally, but I've seen games that have done both types of game in the same title before.


Front lines is good for another reason. The need to constantly move to assault or defend kind of eliminates the problem of camping. That should still be retained in some capacity for larger maps. Maybe a king of the hill mode, where the 'hill' keeps moving based on what happens on the battlefield...
Eg. one team gains a point and now must defend a hill, then they push ahead and must defend another hill, but then they lose the hill and must launch a counter attack.

Good for games where it's best 4 of 7 or something; when a team pushes more than 1 point ahead, then there are additional objectives, so the map enlargens as they go. When they are farther ahead, maybe they encounter terrain that's easier for the losing team to defend (maybe it has fixed emplacements; or maybe because the Lt. added some extra defenses to it, because the platoon donated some load out points to him; another interesting mechanic), which allows them to make a come back.
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All that said, yes, I think Black Mill will have to introduce new features in order to revive love of the game.

However, the features will have to be small, given its a small company. I think there's still some good ideas that can be implemented.
Last edited by nofreewill; Feb 12 @ 2:46pm
Yes, I agree that a tactical shooter mode for larger player games would be awesome for Verdun. It can handle two modes together, I believe.

Originally posted by bigalloot:
one thing to keep in mind is that highly trained soldiers like hand grenade specialists, rifle grenade specialists, and automatic rifle (chauchat, for example) specialists were not evenly distributed or spread around within the ww1 rifle squads. those weapon specialists were in organized sections of the platoon based around unique skills distinct from the rifle squads of the platoon. for example, a section of dedicated hand grenade specialists might feature two skilled throwers each given a vest or a sack along with six or more grenades, two grenade carriers who resupplied the throwers and took over throwing duties if the throwers fell in action, and four riflemen who helped scout and provide cover for the throwers, or eight soldiers in that hand grenade specialist section led by some sergeant or corporal nco which was but a part of a platoon and introducing such hand grenade sections around 1915 for most nations.

Wasn't each platoon only given one sergeant? He's kinda like the Lt's most trusted man. Squad commanders were usually corporals - at least that's how it was in the british army.
Last edited by nofreewill; Feb 13 @ 9:44am
to freewill's comment of:

"Wasn't each platoon only given one sergeant? He's kinda like the Lt's most trusted man. Squad commanders were usually corporals - at least that's how it was in the british army."

how many sergeants were in a platoon varied by country and it even varied due to attrition. it is true that the lieutenant usually had a higher ranking sergeant in the platoon as an aide, but sometimes the sections were led by lower ranking sergeants. i agree that in most cases for most nations, corporals were in charge of the sections.

one thing that Verdun veterans notice is that when the developers were giving out skins for the nco's they often gave the nco some officer uniform. for example it appears the tommies have a captain (the uniform looks captain) in each four man team as nco. more nco sergeants and corporals and less officers on the map would look better in my opinion. one officer as one lieutenant per platoon would actually look best.
Last edited by biggalloot; Feb 16 @ 11:41am
nofreewill Feb 16 @ 11:26am 
Yeah, I agree. I'm guessing they wanted the NCOs to stand out and look 'formal', even though it doesn't make a lot of sense and is inaccurate - I don't even know if NCOs only had pistols and binocs either.
biggalloot Feb 16 @ 11:33am 
Originally posted by nofreewill:
Yeah, I agree. I'm guessing they wanted the NCOs to stand out and look 'formal', even though it doesn't make a lot of sense and is inaccurate - I don't even know if NCOs only had pistols and binocs either.

actually, if they had a platoon level game with one officer per platoon, i would kind of like him (the lieutenant) to stand out with an officer's uniform along with the pistol and binocs. also, maybe he would be the only one able to call in artillery if Verdun added land-line phones like Tannenberg, since not just anybody could pick up the phone and know the code to call in shells.

i would like most of the nco's to be corporals or sergeants, mostly armed with rifle and bayonet. some might also have a pistol, as Sergeant (actually Corporal at the time of his feats) York had a rifle and a pistol. of course, the uniforms of the sergeants and corporals would not look all that distinctive unless you notice some stripes at close range.
Last edited by biggalloot; Feb 16 @ 11:42am
nofreewill Feb 16 @ 12:09pm 
Originally posted by biggalloot:
actually, if they had a platoon level game with one officer per platoon, i would kind of like him (the lieutenant) to stand out with an officer's uniform along with the pistol and binocs.

Yeah, I agree.

of course, the uniforms of the sergeants and corporals would not look all that distinctive unless you notice some stripes at close range.

Maybe that's the problem that Blackmill has with it. It's harder to have different approaches to the game like 'target NCOs' if they aren't distinguishable.

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That said though, if there's less diversity in squads as there was IRL, then maybe troops could differentiate more by skills rather than load outs. Some riflemen would be better at recon (can spot NCOs and highlight where they think enemy troops are on the map to those in a radius (not the whole entire team; would be imbalanced and noise hectic if that were the case)) or highlight machine guns, some better at sniping, others faster and better with a bayonet, or good at covering themselves in camo, or buttoning down to survive the extra nasty gas that would have killed even those troops that were wearing gas masks? Some might even steal a grenade to carry into battle, or a flare gun for night time maps (if those were in any way common). They could also modify their rifles, and maybe there's a perk that would limit them have more mods to a rifle (eg. special bayonet, scope, tracer bullets to assist the machine gunner (if those existed), etc.). Some might also carry shovels, barbed wire cutters, etc.

Some grenadiers might be tougher (more resistant to suppression), or faster at movement, or quicker at throwing grenades, or better at spotting NCOs. Some might be able to cook a grenade better (perk gives a timer on the HUD for when it will explode), or throw them more accurately.

Perks would be swapped out, generally speaking. Maybe a character can have two or three active at most, and maybe high level perks cost 2 or 3 points.

Platoon set up would force a certain type of squad to be part of it (rifle, machine gun, or grenadier), but they would still choose the flavour of squad that is using the list already given in the game.

From there, players can customize their troops, but the flavour of troop (eg. Marines, Tommies, Belgians, etc.) would be a different character with different customizations. If a squad is of Belgians, for example, then the player in that squad would have to use his Belgian trooper, even if it's only level 1. Just like in the current game.

Leveling isn't super important to the game, since progress is saved over several matches, it'd be easy enough to get to max level (level 3 or 4). Therefore, players won't avoid entering certain squads, since it isn't super inconvenient to have to fully level a new soldier, unless maybe they're reaching their max level (which might take 50 games, whereas it's 10 or so games to get to the level before that).

Each level gives point to spend on perks from a list which varies slightly based on soldier (stormtrooper, canadian, poilus, etc.), and they are swappable.

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I know the above might change the game completely, and would be a lot of effort to devote to just one new game mode...

However, there's ways to make a historical game fun without departing from accuracy. That's all I'm saying.
Last edited by nofreewill; Feb 16 @ 1:06pm
Dear nofreewill, can we not suggest more ways to screw gunners. We have enough suffering with being stationary in a game that doesn't have proper gunner encampments and where everyone is way more accurate than in an actual war.
Suppression isn't really that strong in this game and there's no morale mechanic that makes a team do worse the more deaths it has, but... how would Lts screw gunners?
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