Burning Sword/Blade Nerfed Too Much (Or Whetstones Cost Too Much?)

[Kriptini]

After the last patch which nerfed the burning sword/blade, I feel like it's just not worth building anymore. The amount of coins you need to invest in it (18!) don't justify its stats and effects, especially when shields easily counter it. (The idea seems to be getting value from the weapon damage gain off of daggers and dragons... but buying daggers just drains your stamina faster from hitting shields and you don't have money to buy dragons and because you've invested all your coins into building this item.) This might not be a problem unique to burning blade; it's possible that all whetstone-crafted items cost too much, which is why they are rarely ever seen at high ranks (with the exception of Steel Goobert, which is an insanely strong item).

Any thoughts?

[ninfreak711]

one burning sword gets you through endgame. it buffs dragons and phoenix. it is incredibly strong. i force it just about every game, incredibly easy to make and at most cost 8 gold(10 if you count the fire). blade is a waste. blade is just too convoluted to make and is just bad. it was bad before the nerf too. it's the recipe and the item that sucks, not the cost, you can't make stones cheaper, that is a bad idea balance wise

if you are using daggers on pyro you are doing it wrong

[Nightstrasza]

Blade/Sword are op, not only they give damage around, they give it to themselves and also produce heat to scale even faster and for many things to consume like sun armor, friendly fire, pheonixes and so on. They need further nerfs or a damage cap, not buffs. You have to go thro some ways to generate mana then spread it thro mana torch and only to 2 weapons, these flame weapons do it to everything around it, generate their own fuel, grow stronger by themselves and are cheap and easy to craft, you can have burning blade by turn 4, make hero sword, then instantly make burning sword and then make burning blade, a legendary that fuels itself and everything in your backpack heat, speed or damage related.

[Kriptini]

Originally posted by ninfreak711:

one burning sword gets you through endgame. it buffs dragons and phoenix. it is incredibly strong. i force it just about every game, incredibly easy to make and at most cost 8 gold(10 if you count the fire). blade is a waste. blade is just too convoluted to make and is just bad. it was bad before the nerf too. it's the recipe and the item that sucks, not the cost, you can't make stones cheaper, that is a bad idea balance wise

if you are using daggers on pyro you are doing it wrong

Maybe my issue is that I've been focusing on testing Burning Blade too much instead of just riding Burning Sword. Do you think the Blade version needs a buff? Or maybe should have its recipe reduced to just one whetstone (for a total of three)?

Originally posted by Nightstrasza:

Blade/Sword are op, not only they give damage around, they give it to themselves and also produce heat to scale even faster and for many things to consume like sun armor, friendly fire, pheonixes and so on. They need further nerfs or a damage cap, not buffs. You have to go thro some ways to generate mana then spread it thro mana torch and only to 2 weapons, these flame weapons do it to everything around it, generate their own fuel, grow stronger by themselves and are cheap and easy to craft, you can have burning blade by turn 4, make hero sword, then instantly make burning sword and then make burning blade, a legendary that fuels itself and everything in your backpack heat, speed or damage related.

I feel like you're living in magical Christmas land where you have the coins to be buying Burning Blade, Sun Armor, Phoenixes, and Mana Torch without losing all of your lives in the early game. What rank are you?

[Nightstrasza]

Reached diamond like a week ago and burnt out, doing other characters now. You can get 2 whetstones for craft on first turn, then use your starting 2 flames to lit it next time and then get 2 whetstones to make the blade or another sword. I never used pheonixes or mana torch.

[Olliff]

I disagree. Burning sword is still used in the top meta lantern build from TwoBiers, and it deserved to be nerfed. It is still good, but it is not an absurd value like it used to be. It is one of the risk of playing a dominant class. That being said, I still think pyro is lot more versatile than berserker.

[Kriptini]

Lantern is meta? What? 😬

[TripSin]

lol no they're still ridiculously strong

That's my thought.

[ptirodaktill]

I also feel there is no point to build the sword anymore. A sword cost 11 gold, eat stam like a burning torch and does 0 dmg. It eat too much stamina for utility item and fail to deliver as dmg item.

[Nightstrasza]

While you think burning stuff was overnerfed, I just lost to a torch + sword while wielding 2 legendaries.

https://i.postimg.cc/NG5bhfhd/image.png

My weapons add up to a steady 10dps/s. I have crystal in the pan for finisher damage. I have 2 bananas so boosted by the fanny pack. I have whole fire pit filled with fire and piggys that give another 16 hp. I start with 11 heat, they 9. I have 2 stones. I have 0 problems with stamina.

Them?, full fire pit. Useless 2 boxes. An entire backpack full of gems. Running out of stamina constantly despite 40% stamina regen from gems. 2 stones as well. A chilli and amethyst that nullified my poison. Twice less healing due to only a single chilli vs mine 2 bananas. Some other bunch of gems. Their chili is not even inside 2 fanny packs, just one and their whetstone is not between the weapons.

I lost with 2 legendary weapons, 0 stamina issues and superior defenses against 2 epics with non-combat junk and unoptimized placement.

[ptirodaktill]

Originally posted by propagation:

Sword+torch (blade not even necessary if you cant find the last two whetstones) as your main offensive items will carry you to survival most of the time, provided you spend the remaining surplus of gold wisely. It scales decently+takes up almost no space+easy to play while you focus on your actual build+blade also buffs your other weapons. It really needs a nerf while other pyro weapons like staff and spear should get buffed.

At master and GM litteraly everyone is doing a spike shield round 2. Two weapons openers hardpush you intro buying bananas that slow down your board progression. Its just more efficient to assemble a torch and concentrate on def.

[Kriptini]

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

I also feel there is no point to build the sword anymore. A sword cost 11 gold, eat stam like a burning torch and does 0 dmg. It eat too much stamina for utility item and fail to deliver as dmg item.

Exactly. Dual shields punishes this even further.

Originally posted by Nightstrasza:

While you think burning stuff was overnerfed, I just lost to a torch + sword while wielding 2 legendaries.

https://i.postimg.cc/NG5bhfhd/image.png

My weapons add up to a steady 10dps/s. I have crystal in the pan for finisher damage. I have 2 bananas so boosted by the fanny pack. I have whole fire pit filled with fire and piggys that give another 16 hp. I start with 11 heat, they 9. I have 2 stones. I have 0 problems with stamina.

Them?, full fire pit. Useless 2 boxes. An entire backpack full of gems. Running out of stamina constantly despite 40% stamina regen from gems. 2 stones as well. A chilli and amethyst that nullified my poison. Twice less healing due to only a single chilli vs mine 2 bananas. Some other bunch of gems. Their chili is not even inside 2 fanny packs, just one and their whetstone is not between the weapons.

I lost with 2 legendary weapons, 0 stamina issues and superior defenses against 2 epics with non-combat junk and unoptimized placement.

Dog I don't know how to say this politely but your board is awful.

[Nightstrasza]

It's better than theirs, or should be, by rarity standards and item placement. If your point is "you should also have burning sword and torch" or "have spiked shield" or whatever else item comes to mind, yea sure, I didn't, my backpack should still be stronger. I could just make burning blade turn 4 and free win with crusader, but I don't want to, I want to make something else.

[Kriptini]

Originally posted by Nightstrasza:

It's better than theirs, or should be, by rarity standards and item placement. If your point is "you should also have burning sword and torch" or "have spiked shield" or whatever else item comes to mind, yea sure, I didn't, my backpack should still be stronger. I could just make burning blade turn 4 and free win with crusader, but I don't want to, I want to make something else.

If you're evaluating items based on rarity and item placement and not on what the items actually do, then you are misguided about how this game is currently balanced.

[Nightstrasza]

I know what the items actually do and I judge them by it. I simply provided an example of rarity actually not mattering bcs 2 legendaries not bought but assembled and better backpack lost to 2 epics with nothing behind it and unoptimized placement. I'm aware that the torch and sword scale infinitelly while my weapons in that particular scenario don't besides the 30% hp on crystal. It's just to point out these fire things are still op.

[Kriptini]

You don't actually point out anything relevant by not having a single defensive item or a mana payoff when building a poison item and a mana generator. Maybe you think sword + torch is OP because you've never bought a shield. I am frankly surprised that you didn't die faster.