Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs

Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs

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Der Pingunator 21 DIC 2013 a las 22:07
Was there really an excuse to simplify the gameplay so much?
No inventory, no sanity system, an infinite lantern, regenerating health, scripted enemy patrols..

all of these things kind of ruined it for me...why did they removed all of those aspects? It's even WAY shorter than the 1st game and I find it more linear (really most of the game was just a corridor).

Also, the enemies, I didn't died until the near the end of the game, and the game over is...nonexistant, it's just a white screen that immediatly turns back into the last checkpoint, so at that point I was simply no longer afraid because I knew that if I died I would be back in less than 5 seconds, whereas in TDD it would take a lot longer to "respawn" so you kind of tried to avoid death more.

Really, I don't like to hate on games just like this...but I feel really dissapointed with this one, the storytelling improved but everything else fell behind.
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Mostrando 1-15 de 119 comentarios
illgib 21 DIC 2013 a las 22:32 
Dan spoken here why and how they managed to made THEIR VIEW of AN Amnesia game
N199AW0LF 21 DIC 2013 a las 22:41 
Publicado originalmente por illgib:
Dan spoken here why and how they managed to made THEIR VIEW of AN Amnesia game

You know, the point of posting a personal review is not "to get information about how deliberately the person who made the disappointing thing actually made the disappointing thing specifically disappointing for you". Just pointing that out.

To the OP, I share your sense of befuddlement, and wonder quite frequently how much better AMFP would have been had it been for a simple thing like the mechanics being left intact. It's maddening to imagine!
illgib 21 DIC 2013 a las 22:45 
So the developer's words on how they made the game isn't entitled?

And it's not so maddening "If we can't reasonably find why should be there, then there's no really need" in other words, if it flows the same even without oil, so there's no need of lamp oil, the game will be the same.

And it's your opinion arguable or not, but in 1899 there were elettricity so no one used iol lamp no more, just pointing out if you missed that bit.
Última edición por illgib; 21 DIC 2013 a las 22:50
illgib 21 DIC 2013 a las 22:56 
Developers wanted to share their view of their game, if people don't like it it's not dev problem, sincerly. Lynch made movies how he likes and have his audience, little or big it's not important, it's his goal. As The Chinese Room and Frictional have, they are small indie studios and can't affoard large budgets, so they work on what they are good for, if you look at both curriculum you see games very innovative and different from many others, why? Creativity and love in game design, not only copycat moneygrab studios. So it's not so far that they will get many people dissapointed by thei work as they made what they like not what the whole world want. As long you have people who likes you keep going in what you do, if you start to run for the masses the rubbish will come out.
Última edición por illgib; 21 DIC 2013 a las 22:56
N199AW0LF 21 DIC 2013 a las 23:00 
Good for the devs man, but still...bad for the disappointed customers. This is what I'm talking about; no one wants to hear how their disappointment translates to satisfaction in someone else, especially when they PAID that someone else with the hope of NOT being disappointed with their product. It's just...spiteful to keep bringing up caveat emptor. Like, total bummer. Knock it off already, man.
Última edición por N199AW0LF; 21 DIC 2013 a las 23:01
illgib 21 DIC 2013 a las 23:04 
It's not you cup of tea, what's the problem? You can't like everything in this world, sometimes happen dude, so why hating on everything you don't like? You'll get only headache.
I like it and i'll support bto Frictional and Chinese Room in their future projects, you're free to support them or not, where's the problem? It's not that they killed you cat whit that game. It's a game not a bad wife.
Der Pingunator 22 DIC 2013 a las 0:56 
illgib, the problem with TCR (and with whoever made Gone home, yeah I'm getting them here as well). is that they think that a game cant have a good story and good gameplay at the same time, really, that was the entire reason for all of this. i've been reading lots of articles, even the one you posted, and it's just incredibily dumb.

I read the one from the guardian (where they sound like huge spoiled brats seriously) and they said that they removed the mechanics because they didn't want to make the same game as TDD, which is fine, but the problem is: they didn't gave us anything to replace the removed mechanics, they simply removed them. That is as if a car manufacturer said "I'm going to make a car that is different to other without a steering wheel!" without offering you something to replace the freaking wheel.

Ever heard the phrase "If it's not broken, don't fix it"? Well it goes perfect with what TCR did.

Do you seriously think the game would have been the same if it had "oil" or tinderboxes or sanity? You know its called "survival horror" for a reason right?.

In the first game, you had to manage your inventory, oil wasn't infinite, you couldn't walk around with the lantern on for the entire game, but if you turned it off, your sanity would go down, which would in turn lure the monsters to you. If that isn't scary and super tense to you, then I dont know what would be.

If the devs couldn't find a justification for these mechanics, then i will simply say they lacked creativity and common sense, why? because these mechanics were justified by simply saying: to make this game scarier, you know, the horror game you paid us to make? Like what you did with the 1st game, where you didn't want to turn off the lantern but you knew you had to before you ran out of oil, but at the same time you knew that if you did it then it would lure the monsters to you?.

Or physical interaction, in the 1st game you could barricade yourself inside a room with boxes, you could try to hide inside a cupboard. They couldn't justify that? they couldn't say "we are doing this so as to increase the scare factor, the inmersion factor"

No man, the problem here is that TCR simply seems to have a superiority complex, they think that every game they make is a huge piece of art and that anyone who disagrees is an illiterate monkey. They want to make a "unique" game, they don't want to have anything in common with another one, even if it means removing every single gameplay feature to just make it a walking simulator.
Der Pingunator 22 DIC 2013 a las 0:57 
Sorry if my reply sounds harsh, but I am truly ♥♥♥♥♥♥ off at what they did with this game. TDD was truly the scariest game I've ever played and I loved every single aspect of it, to see TCR drop the ball completely under the grounds of "MAKING ART!!!" makes me very very angry. Especially after I was deceived into paying for a non game like gone home and dear esther.
Última edición por Der Pingunator; 22 DIC 2013 a las 0:58
illgib 22 DIC 2013 a las 1:06 
We fall again in the "A game must be made that way..."
Nope sorry, they have rights to do what they please to their game.
Game can have nice story and gameplay, but even no story and nice gampleay and no gameplay and a nice story. You kno what makes great? Different games for different audiances, or we end whit the same game again and again who everyone hates. You think that a a game should be made in a way to please you, but it's up to you, i'm fine with story driven games, are part of my game tastes, not yours, no problem with the devs here, only yours. I like open rpgs, point &click adventures, brainless fps, and games like Machine and Dear Esther. Very different kind of games for different moods and moments. If you focus on one only aspects you'll miss many many great games and movies, as what fits to you doesen't for me. Think about that. And if fifn't fits for me or for you it's nobody faults nore harms, we play something else, why that need to yeld disappointmet? I don't think you run trought the streets blaming summer to be so hot. So, why acting like that on a forum, were personal opinions are slapped as worldwide facts?

And by the way, survival in't not about inventory managment, but surviving a dreadfull enviroments, whit or without help of any sort. It's not about erbs or ammos, but your brain against the dangers.
Última edición por illgib; 22 DIC 2013 a las 1:08
Der Pingunator 22 DIC 2013 a las 1:58 
Now you just sound like a blind fanboy...

Again: You better not make a car without a steering wheel.

If you don't like games with no gameplay, then why are you playing GAMES? It might be a different medium altogether. Games are meant to have gameplay, not just being "walk from point A to point B".

The problem here is that you are the one who likes less stuff and you are trying to tell us that we can't complain about getting less because some people like getting less.

So in other words, you're saying something like "I don't like to work 8 hour shifts for a normal salary, I want to work 16 hour shifts for a normal salary, therefore there should be more jobs that require you to work 16 hours for 8 hour's salary!"
And that's a problem, because you may not like getting "the full package", but others do, and since others are asking for more, you really don't have a say (since you are asking for less).

The majority of people want games with gameplay, no one is saying "remove story from games!", but we don't want to be ripped off with games that are just, like I said, walking simulators, we don't want to have our favorite games ruined like that.

And the biggest issue here is that Amnesia was already a established IP, people were already expecting something, and they killed it completely, I wouldn't have mind these things if this was just "A machine for pigs" instead of "amnesia AMFP" How would you feel if you were a big zelda fan and you found out that the next zelda game will no longer be adventure but will be an cross-species dating sim? I'm pretty sure you'd be ill ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

You're basically saying that you'd be okay with someone who owed you money if they came over to your house to pay you, with only the president's face under the excuse of "Oh, it's because this is the nicest part of the bill, therefore, you do not need the other parts!"

You like getting less, we get it, but dont try to force that "Less is better! you guys who like to get a better value for your money are wrong!" mentality on us.
illgib 22 DIC 2013 a las 2:10 
Who said less is better and every game must be that way? And i never said i like games without mechanics (stop using GAMEPLAY because is a different things from MECHANICS) if you look at my library you can see very different kind of games all together. Don't change my words to your side. please.

I said as long someone find a game entertaining, despite the features, it's ok, why arguing on that? I said, there are games with both, with one and with none of the above, and it's better that way so everyone will find what fits to him, instead of a pre packaged game who no one likes. The more the choice, the more the fun for more people, why can't you see that equation?

So, where's my issue in that? If you find it boring it's up to you, they don't have to change their game to applease YOU, nore ME. Play something else, you bought a game that ended boring to you, oh god what a shame! Move on, seriously.
N199AW0LF 22 DIC 2013 a las 2:10 
You know, this entire time I thought illgib was making these observations as if to suggest that customers were fools for having expectations, but after reading between the lines I think he's just pointing out that the developers have a legal right to not having to consider all of a consumer's expectations (in the case of the video game industry), as long as they provide whatever it is they digitally provide in exchange for payment. I don't think he's condoning it, just kinda offering a reality check. This is either what it is and there's nothing you can do about it with any company out there, or you can look for a better game from a better company and try to discourage people from buying TCR products. The reality check here is: the devs either don't care enough about their audience (other people) to read these forums or listen to feedback, or what you personally found lacking isn't something many other people care about enough to influence who they give money to and for what. And he's accurate about that, if I understand properly.

Also (a heads up to OP), illgib's not really a blind fanboy. His english is just right on that tricky language border: he sounds good enough to be considered native TO a native but he himself hasn't yet polished his writing skills enough to convey gists and tone and stuff accurately, hence the appearance of blind fanaticism.

I too wish the scarier balance would've won out, but that's life I guess. Me, I wish I could play Outlast, but I'm on a mac. Heard that was scarier.
Última edición por N199AW0LF; 22 DIC 2013 a las 2:18
Der Pingunator 22 DIC 2013 a las 2:19 
Why would you try to expose that point? It's what we have all been saying here. We can't force devs to do anything, AMFP will never change no matter how bad we want it.

I am pretty sure he is condoning this behavior from the devs. You can't ever please everyone, thats a fact of life. But that's not the problem here, the problem is that TCR basically took Amnesia, an established IP, ripped it to shreds, burned most of the shreds and only gave us 2 (the story and atmosphere).

And that he is condoning this, under the excuse of "they can do whatever they want with their game, a minority of people like me liked it so they should keep doing that!"

The freaking car analogy again. They took a fully functional car, removed the steering wheel, sold it and said "it's a unique car because it has no steering wheel". And I'm not going to agree with someone who supports that behavior from devs.

"games" like those will slowly smother the industry if that behavior is never reprimanded.

And yes, sorry illgib but your english is simply too hard to understand for me and you just end up sounding like a really self entitled brat, even if you're not, my apologies for that, I'm just having a very hard time reading you.
Última edición por Der Pingunator; 22 DIC 2013 a las 2:20
illgib 22 DIC 2013 a las 2:20 
It's a bit sad or rude, but for the majority it's that way. It's not that they don't care at all, but if they should heard and applease every single words around the worls, they will stop making videogames, because they simply can't applease everyone, so they go for who appreciates their work trying to grab some new gamers. But if at the end (like in that case) are more the disappointed, they keep count on that fan base who follow them despite the negativity (and most is nothing more than a rant, i must say. Pointing personal opinions about a game with interesting points and a nice discussion it's something, call it "♥♥♥♥!" only because don't meet personal expectation it's a rant, nothing more) and try in the next time to catch more that disappointed majority. Some developers made so, others go straight on their road, ad if you don't like what they do stop buy his games, easy. I made it several times with no harm. I have a couple of old Fifa games, '98 since '02, but then it bored me to death and i moved on. Nobody have ever ehard me voicing how boring are their games, because i would appear like an idiot, and others can, rightly, point at me that i'm wrong because it's a great game instead. Just like here. Opinions and tastes, everyone have his own and we can't argue on opinions, even the most arguable.
I never agued if you don't like it, i never said you're an idiot or you must like it, i blame the attitude, if someone fiund something not in his chords, than it's ♥♥♥♥. No, i'm sorry but nope.

And an Ip made by one title? Penumbra it's an Ip, Amnesia absolutely not. Now it's an Ip with two games. Justine doesn't count it's a free Portal 2 promotional custom story.

Typo, damn' old keyboard.
Última edición por illgib; 22 DIC 2013 a las 2:24
Der Pingunator 22 DIC 2013 a las 2:25 
Dude, my point here is that you were given something (TDD) and then you were given less (AMFP) and you seem genuinely happy about it. I had Fifa 98 to 02 as well, and just like you I stopped buying them after 2002, but how would have you liked it if FIFA 2003 removed things like say, changing the roster or hell, lets get to the hypothetical extremes: remove control over multiple players, and added nothing in return. I'm pretty sure you would hate the game.

That's exactly how I felt with AMFP, they nearly removed everything that made the first game interesting and didnt replaced it with anything, that has been my point throughout the entire discussion.

And yes, it's an IP, a single game makes an IP, IP stands for intellectual property. I could write a 50 pages draft about a monkey who goes to fight against demons in the moon and it would still be an IP.

Amnesia was an IP, it had an established gameplay, they ripped it to shreds, it was pretty obvious that most fans wouldn't be happy
Última edición por Der Pingunator; 22 DIC 2013 a las 2:27
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Publicado el: 21 DIC 2013 a las 22:07
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