Cao cao over liu bei

[Fluttering Chaos]

I spent my childhood liking liu bei kindness and always choose shu playthrough in every DN. But how Origins present cao cao (im still in the early game) makes me want to choose for him as he is very wise? wdy guys things

[Kyiaslightsun]

I just wish we could have had the He Fei battle with Zhang Liao.

[저지]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย 성진우:

I spent my childhood liking liu bei kindness and always choose shu playthrough in every DN. But how Origins present cao cao (im still in the early game) makes me want to choose for him as he is very wise? wdy guys things

Cao Cao is a monkey. You get that really early on when hes like "JUSTICE will prevail, no matter what it costs, and if i have to burn down my own Mummy, JUSTICE is the most important!"

Hes not a good leader.

[SushiJaguar]

In a discussion of who is worth having a leader, both in the RoTK fiction and the historical accounts, the only true winner is Sun Jian. Cao Cao will always be second best...but a million miles ahead of Liu Bei.

Liu Bei is a traitorous, envious shrew of a man who campaigned across China stabbing everyone in the back the moment they extended a hand to him. Lu Bu turning on him was hilarious. Of course, Omega Force have an extreme bias towards Shu, to the point that sometimes they depict Shu as even more gilded and perfect than RoTK does.

[FlyingTorcensoredWhale]

Always go Wu first since forever, personally.

It's not Sun Jian or Sun Ce (although they were always very enjoyable in the series). It's the colour scheme. I just like red!

[RaTcHeT302]

DO NOT PICK CAO CAO HE IS EVIL, AND HE DRESSES BAAAAAAD

[RaTcHeT302]

if they made Cao Cao crack random dad jokes in the middle of the battlefield or if he was just a prankster all the time i wouldnt hate him so much but his whole personality is just MHH YES ME VERY SMART, ME VERY CUNNING, MHH HMM, ME USE CONVENIENT EXCUSE TO INVADE, MHH YES

it just gets boring after a while xD

i dont care if their personalities dont match some 500 year old stories or whatever, i wish Koei could have more fun with it and like, not go too far to the point where its obnoxious

but like everyone is way too serious in this game and thats why i felt more drawn to the green bros cuz they gave off this chill vibe like "YEAH I GOTCHU BRO WE GON KICK THEIR ASS THATS OUR STRATEGY" i wish the games could have more moments where the characters are stupid but like in a fun way

we need the game to be more stupid xD

(why did bro delete his post now i look like i double posted dammit)

[Action Man]

Thinking about it more, the game really does not convey the passage of time at all.

The game starts at year ~184, and ends at Chibi, which was in 208-209 I think? That's 25 years. Liu Bet was just sitting around, doing nothing (from the game's perspective) for over two decades. Cao Cao was working towards his goal. Liu Bei said in more than one cutscene that he will rise when the opportunities present themselves, choosing not to usurp power or ascend in a way that goes against his beliefs. That's cool, stick to your principles. Then he keeps turning down opportunities that he earned through his merit and others recognizing him as a deserving individual...so what hell man?

I did a bit of googling to get the time of the Chibi battle, so if I'm wrong, let me know.

[RaTcHeT302]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Action Man:

Liu Bei said in more than one cutscene that he will rise when the opportunities present themselves,

i noticed that and he do be kinda dumb but i think its an excuse from the ppl who made the game so that all the missions could line up neatly so they could reuse the battlefields xD

[thorin.hannahs]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RaTcHeT302:

if they made Cao Cao crack random dad jokes in the middle of the battlefield or if he was just a prankster all the time i wouldnt hate him so much but his whole personality is just MHH YES ME VERY SMART, ME VERY CUNNING, MHH HMM, ME USE CONVENIENT EXCUSE TO INVADE, MHH YES

it just gets boring after a while xD

i dont care if their personalities dont match some 500 year old stories or whatever, i wish Koei could have more fun with it and like, not go too far to the point where its obnoxious

but like everyone is way too serious in this game and thats why i felt more drawn to the green bros cuz they gave off this chill vibe like "YEAH I GOTCHU BRO WE GON KICK THEIR ASS THATS OUR STRATEGY" i wish the games could have more moments where the characters are stupid but like in a fun way

we need the game to be more stupid xD

(why did bro delete his post now i look like i double posted dammit)

Stupid like small girls kill hundreds of soldiers with fans? There was plenty of that already or that one guy from Jin with the spearzooka that is constantly about to die from a cough. The writing makes me think of Romance of the Three Kingdoms in a weird sort of way. People keep asking why everyone loves the main character but I think it is more with how things were written way back when style wise I suppose. It has been forever since I read one of the books though.

[RaTcHeT302]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย thorin.hannahs:

Stupid like small girls kill hundreds of soldiers with fans? There was plenty of that already or that one guy from Jin with the spearzooka that is constantly about to die from a cough. The writing makes me think of Romance of the Three Kingdoms in a weird sort of way. People keep asking why everyone loves the main character but I think it is more with how things were written way back when style wise I suppose. It has been forever since I read one of the books though.

what, not that kind of stupid

i mean like a war being declared over some random woman but it turns out they were all fighting for a donkey or something

or like an assassin thats like the worst ever and he's so terrible and his attempts always fail to the point where the emperor feels bad and he stages a fake assasination for him and then everyone goes "YOU DID IT WOOOW" and then they celebrate and then they throw him into the dungeon

not like Yakuza dumb xD, but more like "this could happen" type goofy

like maybe theres some really annoying tax dude who got so much money he has a whole army but everyone is sick of him so they pause the war to take care of him, you know, stupid xD

also we need more angry farmers rising up over stupid reasons like, THESE RICE PRICES ARE OUTRAGEOUS, I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE, THE LOCUSTS HAVE DESTROYED MY FIELDS, AND LU BU KEEPS TRYING TO STEAL MY HORSES??? WHAT DOES ONE MAN NEED SO MANY HORSES FOR???? I HAD ENOUGH OF THIS

u know xD

[SRY:(]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RaTcHeT302:

if they made Cao Cao crack random dad jokes in the middle of the battlefield or if he was just a prankster all the time i wouldnt hate him so much but his whole personality is just MHH YES ME VERY SMART, ME VERY CUNNING, MHH HMM, ME USE CONVENIENT EXCUSE TO INVADE, MHH YES

it just gets boring after a while xD

i dont care if their personalities dont match some 500 year old stories or whatever, i wish Koei could have more fun with it and like, not go too far to the point where its obnoxious

but like everyone is way too serious in this game and thats why i felt more drawn to the green bros cuz they gave off this chill vibe like "YEAH I GOTCHU BRO WE GON KICK THEIR ASS THATS OUR STRATEGY" i wish the games could have more moments where the characters are stupid but like in a fun way

we need the game to be more stupid xD

(why did bro delete his post now i look like i double posted dammit)

Dude i Love that MB thats why i sided with the Green Boys as well i think also those fun Stories would be really cool even If ITS Just a small Side Mission inwould Love some stupid Quests Like you described xd

[At@At]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย awanderingswordsman:

Honestly this game made me think a lot less of Liu Bei.

I think the one big issue for his story in this game is that we aren't presented with how the land will be bad if cao cao rules it. Everything we see, cao cao is nice to the common people and excellent at governing. Theres even that map dialogue about how when his horse went out of control and damaged a peasants fence he went over and cut his hair in front of them out of penance.

Liu Bei comes in saying how the world might be better off with cao cao but he just can't accept all the people that will be sacrificed for it. The problem is, when Liu Bei says this, Cao Cao has effectively already won and the sacrifices are mostly over. Wu almost surrendered even WITH Shu coming calling for an alliance. If Liu Bei had simply surrendered, the warring era would be over without any more fighting (or at least without much). It was Liu Bei that effectively refused to let the fighting end and caused like 15 million more people to die in the next 50 years.

He doesn't even know HOW he wants to make things better and yet he keeps fighting and losing "for the people" but they never show or tell us why the people even like him? Does he have kinder policies? Does he keep the peace and fend off bandits better than other leaders? What does he actually DO to have so much undying support from the people? The only thing we see is he allows them to follow him and die instead of doing the thing that makes any sense and having them stay where they live because "cao cao would treat them well and not make trouble for peasants" further reinforcing that fighting cao cao is in fact not in the peoples best interest.

And ugh, on the other side of things, Guan Yu, for the sake of honor, allowed the warring to continue. He could have struck down cao cao and prevented the rest of the era but didn't in order to pay back cao cao. Very honorable, but with the cost of like 15 million lives associated with it. Certainly not an action in the peoples best interest. And of course Zhang Fei allowed Lu Bu to steal their castle and revolt leading to a lot of deaths.

Oddly enough, I never liked Liu Bei because of this exact reason from past games. His reasoning always sounded foolish to me. While this game does show Cao Cao in a better light by not shining a spotlight on his horrific massacres/sacrifices, I always saw his story as almost always a few steps from total victory. His ambition just always got bigger and someone else had to pay for the greater good. If there was a setback then someone else would pay for it. That was the issue with Cao Cao. Enough was never enough, and no sacrifice was ever too great for the always moving goalpost. Out of the 3 factions, I always liked Cao Cao best though cuz he seemed like the only one actually working to end the chaos and was an actual good ruler/leader. Although, who knows what would've happened if he won.

[awanderingswordsman]

Did he really move the goal posts much? From pretty early on, he set out to conquer the entire realm and without the miracle that was the chibi battle, he would have succeeded without about the minimum possible bloodshed. At least in the game he is always calling for people to surrender to him and forgiving yellow turbans and enemy officers.

His path might be the least "honorable" but it's undoubtedly the best for the people. Meanwhile the honor of Wu and Shu cause millions of pointless deaths. Cao cao would sacrifice one, even his own father, to save hundreds, and shu and wu would sacrifice millions to save one.

[RaTcHeT302]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย awanderingswordsman:

Did he really move the goal posts much?

yeh cuz he always had some random oddly convoluted excuses to invade entire kingdoms xDD

[awanderingswordsman]

I mean, from the outside maybe, but from his camps perspective his goalpost was always "unite the realm".