Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

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DS Aug 17, 2013 @ 11:44pm
Offensive combat stats vs defensive combat stats
I haven't been able to find much good information on the internet about what exactly the difference between offensive combat stats (i.e. offensive shock, offensive morale, etc.) and defensive combat stats. Particularly morale, as I can't think of why there would be a difference.

I'm getting the idea that shock is basically a messure of melee attack and charge, and is ideal for cavalry, and fire is a measure of gun firepower, and is ideal for infantry once you actually aquire gunpowder units (and is completely useless until you do). Is defensive fire/defensive shock a measure of the unit's resistance to fire/shock? I'm guessing yes, but then why would defensive fire/defensive shock go up as time progresses? Armor was pretty much abandoned by the time muskets dominated the battlefield. And then what is the difference between offensive and defensive morale? I don't even have a guess.
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Mechanical Lions Aug 18, 2013 @ 12:33am 
http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Basic_warfare

It's still relative, but don't read too far into the info about ratios of calvary and wha tnot because this game uses different modifiers. (ie: 50% penalty for too much calv) basic info applies still to the phases of combat.

You need to make a choice at all times: Do I want to besiege someone faster, kill an entire stack of enemies quick as possible or tap their morale so they run.

That's the hardest thing for people to understand in that it's not about ratios and having more and people getting mad at losing huge stack wars. It's about balance.

Also in EU morale is pretty paramount for winning.

edit:fixed something dumb
Last edited by Mechanical Lions; Aug 18, 2013 @ 2:18am
On Vacation Aug 18, 2013 @ 12:57am 
Troops make use of whatever pips they have, whether it's shock or fire. You don't need gunpowder etc, you just need a unit that has pips in fire/shock or both. The only other thing that I think is important to point out, is the shock phase comes first in battle. So if you are being attacked and have troops with little to no shock defense, you may well get decimated in the first phase depending on your opponents composition.

As far as "why it goes up as the game progresses" it's just a game mechanic. If it did not go up, and scale reasonably well with the attack stats, the defender would never survive the first phase.

At the most basic casulaties are determined by this.
(Attack + Dice) - (Defense + Terrain)
Where attack is the armies shock pips, or fire pips depending on which phase the combat is in, a dice roll from 1-9 to randomize damage, then the opposing armies defense pips again either shock or fire depending on the combat phase any terrain modifiers. There are other modifiers of course, discipline, leaders, tech, and so on, but thats the basic gist of it. That's for casulties though, morale is not determined by shock or fire pips and are irrelevant for figuring out the morale portion of battles.

In Divine wind the morale was determined by such; Modified roll = Morale Offense - Morale Defense
Modified roll * Tech Level Modifier * 0.08

I am not certain if it's still set up exactly like that, but the principle is the same. Morale is only calculated from morale pips.

Example a 3/4 morale 2/2 shock 3/2 fire unit attacking a 5/3 morale 4/3 shock 4/2 fire unit assuming it's just 1 unit vs 1 unit (offense/defense)
Casulties in the first phase would use the 2 shock vs the 3 shock defense and ofc there would be the random roll. The second phase would be fire 3 vs 2. Ofc again...these are not the only modifiers so this is very simplistic view.

At the same time the morale is being calculated at 3 vs 3 again with a random dice roll and other modifiers. The phases continue until either a) every unit dies from the casualty calculations or b) until one sides morale is depelted. Typically it is the morale that comes first unless there is a large # or tech discrepancy.
Last edited by On Vacation; Aug 18, 2013 @ 1:14am
DS Aug 18, 2013 @ 1:07am 
Wait a minute; are offensive shock/offensive fire/offensive morale ONLY used when you are the attacker, and the defensive stats are ONLY used while you are the defender? I suppose that makes sense.... If I understood that right, that'll have to change the way I think about stat compositions for my armies by quite a bit.
On Vacation Aug 18, 2013 @ 1:11am 
Tried to explain it a bit more in depth...hope it helps.
DS Aug 18, 2013 @ 1:20am 
Thanks rekindledflame55
Mechanical Lions Aug 18, 2013 @ 2:15am 
Originally posted by DS:
Wait a minute; are offensive shock/offensive fire/offensive morale ONLY used when you are the attacker, and the defensive stats are ONLY used while you are the defender? I suppose that makes sense.... If I understood that right, that'll have to change the way I think about stat compositions for my armies by quite a bit.

Actually after further research I was wrong.

Defensive Morale means it's hard to deplete its morale so better stamina in bigger battles. Offensive morale means it's easier to take their morale so better for chasing armies that are already broken.

Fire/Shock Defense/offense are mirrored against each other the same way.

Has nothing to do with attack/defend (though I assumed due to wording)

Sorry, I'm still trying to figure all this stuff out too, just passing along ;)
Last edited by Mechanical Lions; Aug 18, 2013 @ 2:17am
yahiko Jan 25, 2014 @ 11:21am 
On this wiki http://www.eu4wiki.com/Land_maneuver, I don't see where the Offensive/Defensive Morale's Pips are involved. Any idea ?
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Date Posted: Aug 17, 2013 @ 11:44pm
Posts: 7