Combat in this game is so bad

[Richie Rich]

I have played CK2, Ck3, Hoi4, Imperator, Stellaris and I can def say that combat in this game is so bad, literally RNG AI favored, always. Its so dumb, its like the AI gets morale, discipline, etc bonus. I always rage quit this game (this is the only paradox game that makes me rage quit or just painfully leave the game after watching my 80k army being defeated by a 30k AI army of a random germanic country (2-4 provinces) but somehow they are ahead (in technology) even of Ottomans. Doesnt matter if you have a good Mil Leader, always losing the Dice rolls, or always starting the battle with less morale than my enemy. Dumb as f*ck.



Like if it wasnt enough with Ottomans and other superpowers being OP as f*ck. Im cancelling my subscription right now

[grotaclas]

If you start the battle with less morale than your enemies, you do something wrong. In most situations a good player will have more morale than the enemy and can easily win battles against the AI. The AI is not favored at all. On the contrary, they are not very good at getting important combat modifiers like morale or discipline.

[Tulduil Iphukiir]

And smaller nations usually are more advanced in Technology than larger nations, simply because they don't have many other options to spend their Monarch Points.

As a player keeping up with the AI in Military Technology is completely doable (unless you waste your Mil Points on Development, Strengthen Government, Harsh Treatment etc (all of those can be useful in the right situation but most of the time they are a waste of points).
Keeping up in Administrative and Diplomatic Technology can be harder if you expand a lot but being behind in Admin/Diplo Tech is nearly never a problem.

In addition a player can usually generate far more Monarch Points than the AI which helps to be Tech leader (or at least not fall behind):
- Better economy -> better advisors
- Estate Privileges (which the AI rarely uses)
- Deliberate disinheriting, killing heirs/rulers (there is no reason the let your 1/2/0 heir take the throne, another heir will (very likely) be better
- Keeping your Power Projection up (>50 PP gives +1 Monthly MP per category)

[tonypa]

Originally posted by Tulduil Iphukiir:

- Estate Privileges (which the AI rarely uses)

As far I have seen, AI has always used 2-3 Estate Privileges. I would not really say AI is bad at this.

[Rodi]

Originally posted by tonypa:

Originally posted by Tulduil Iphukiir:

- Estate Privileges (which the AI rarely uses)

As far I have seen, AI has always used 2-3 Estate Privileges. I would not really say AI is bad at this.

Meh Ai takes weird ones but yes, they do take *some*
The guy talked specificly about the +1 from each estate, which Ai doesnt like to take

[Marquoz]

To the OP: experienced players who understand the game have no problems winning battles with any nation against any nation. You won't want to hear this, but it's your own failure to learn the systems that is causing you to lose. Battle results are determined by:

--Relative tech levels. Even a difference of one point can have a huge impact. Make sure you are the one in the lead.
--The terrain you fight on. Always attack in plains. Always try to defend in hills, mountains, or forrests.
--Generals
--Combat width and army composition. You want a front row of infantry + cavalry equal to your combat width. For most nations, a small number of cavalry (2 to 6, depending on combat width) is optimal. Your rear row should be exclusively artillery. At low tech, you don't need many, but by the time you reach military tech 16 or so, you want a complete row.
--Sending in a second army to reinforce the first in large battles after significant damage has been done to your side.
--Making sure your troops are fully funded in wartime and have time to reach max morale.
--Drilling
--Advisor and ruler bonuses
--National and military idea groups

When you say "literally RNG AI favored, always," you're wrong. I win close to 100% of the battles I fight, and you can too if you take the time to learn the game. But first you have to admit that you need to learn. Once you do, you'll realize that the AI is bad at fighting. That's the biggest advantage a skilled player has.

[vdarkcharlie]

Originally posted by Les Rythmes Digitales:

I have played CK2, Ck3, Hoi4, Imperator, Stellaris and I can def say that combat in this game is so bad, literally RNG AI favored, always. Its so dumb, its like the AI gets morale, discipline, etc bonus. I always rage quit this game (this is the only paradox game that makes me rage quit or just painfully leave the game after watching my 80k army being defeated by a 30k AI army of a random germanic country (2-4 provinces) but somehow they are ahead (in technology) even of Ottomans. Doesnt matter if you have a good Mil Leader, always losing the Dice rolls, or always starting the battle with less morale than my enemy. Dumb as f*ck.



Like if it wasnt enough with Ottomans and other superpowers being OP as f*ck. Im cancelling my subscription right now

He is cancelling his subscription. He didn't have to buy all the DLC. See, subscription works!
Also, if you think the Ottomans are OP now, you should have seen them 7 years ago.

[bri]

Originally posted by vdarkcharlie:

Also, if you think the Ottomans are OP now, you should have seen them 7 years ago.

No kidding, or even two years ago, the Ottomans are currently a joke compared to what they once were...

[SRO]

Sounds like a you problem, most people can grasp the military in this game pretty easily.

[Daniel Potter]

Invest into cannons. That's a common mistake beginners make. Once you economy can support canons en masse, your entire second row should be comprised entirely of cannons.

And i hope you know about combat width, because only a part of that 80k are fighting. The combat in EU4 works like this. Only the first row fights. Anything that doesnt fit into the first row, gets put in the second row, and acts as reserve and will move into first row once there is space. But there is an exception, the cannons, which can fire from the second row (at reduced damage, 50%). Width of the rows is based on the combat width stat.

Late game it becomes all about cannons. Preferably you want to get things that boost your cannon damage, like quality ideas. Cavalry is generally neglected, unless you have specific nations that get extreme cavalry bonuses (Poland has +33% damage on cav). Most of the first row is just plain infantry, with 1 cavalry on each side.

Also, it's bad to fight with an enemy that has better technology. Discipline and Military Tactics are the 2 most important characteristics. Tactics reduces incoming damage, and discipline increases damage you deal, and also adds extra tactics, so even more damage reduction. Discipline you get from ideas though.

You get other bonuses from military tech as well. Morale, extra fire/shock damage for your infantry/cavalry/canons, more combat width, better units, but tactics is by far the most important one.

Army tradition is another stat that can play a role. The generals you roll are based on your army tradition. You can pretty much get all sixes with 100 army tradition. Fire and shock stats will help in battle, maneuverability increases supply and movement speed on the map, and siege helps with sieges.

[Kapika96]

Sorry, but all of those are "you" problems, not problems with the game.

[Mr. Awesome]

Originally posted by Marquoz:

To the OP: experienced players who understand the game have no problems winning battles with any nation against any nation. You won't want to hear this, but it's your own failure to learn the systems that is causing you to lose. Battle results are determined by:

--Relative tech levels. Even a difference of one point can have a huge impact. Make sure you are the one in the lead.
--The terrain you fight on. Always attack in plains. Always try to defend in hills, mountains, or forrests.
--Generals
--Combat width and army composition. You want a front row of infantry + cavalry equal to your combat width. For most nations, a small number of cavalry (2 to 6, depending on combat width) is optimal. Your rear row should be exclusively artillery. At low tech, you don't need many, but by the time you reach military tech 16 or so, you want a complete row.
--Sending in a second army to reinforce the first in large battles after significant damage has been done to your side.
--Making sure your troops are fully funded in wartime and have time to reach max morale.
--Drilling
--Advisor and ruler bonuses
--National and military idea groups

When you say "literally RNG AI favored, always," you're wrong. I win close to 100% of the battles I fight, and you can too if you take the time to learn the game. But first you have to admit that you need to learn. Once you do, you'll realize that the AI is bad at fighting. That's the biggest advantage a skilled player has.

Sorry but this is BS. I just had my 8k army defeated by an already demoralized from prior combat 3k army, when attacking in open fields with no terrain bonuses and equal generals. Was within the 1st year of gameplay as japan against another daimyo. The game is blatantly rigged in the AI's favor, particularly in iron man mode, which this was. This is the most blatant example of it I've seen since it was so early in the game and there was literally no logical explanation as a result.

[grotaclas]

Originally posted by Mr. Awesome:

Sorry but this is BS. I just had my 8k army defeated by an already demoralized from prior combat 3k army, when attacking in open fields with no terrain bonuses and equal generals. Was within the 1st year of gameplay as japan against another daimyo. The game is blatantly rigged in the AI's favor, particularly in iron man mode, which this was. This is the most blatant example of it I've seen since it was so early in the game and there was literally no logical explanation as a result.

What Marquoz wrote is not BS. I agree with almost everything in that comment.
There are several perfectly logical explanations for what you saw which don't require any favors for the AI(your case was probably a combination of several of these):

• They had extreme good luck. Sometimes the AI gets good luck and sometimes the player has better luck, but in the long run, it is equal
  
• you got a river crossing penalty
  
• the generals were not totally equal(same stars doesn't mean anything). You could have 6 fire and they could have 6 shock which would make their general much better in the early game
  
• your enemy had more bonuses than you. E.g. Oda starts with +10% morale and +10% infantry combat ability. And they could have gotten more bonuses from events, advisors and other sources
  
• your regiments did not have 1000 men each, but the enemy had 1000 men in each regiment. If you only have infantry, only 5 of your regiments can fight the enemy(because of a flanking range of 1 at the start of the game). If these regiments had for example only 500 men, only 2500 of your men would fight 3000 enemy soldiers.
  
• you were over your cavalry to infantry ration and got a massive penalty because of that

[Black_Rat]

Originally posted by Mr. Awesome:

Originally posted by Marquoz:

To the OP: experienced players who understand the game have no problems winning battles with any nation against any nation. You won't want to hear this, but it's your own failure to learn the systems that is causing you to lose. Battle results are determined by:

--Relative tech levels. Even a difference of one point can have a huge impact. Make sure you are the one in the lead.
--The terrain you fight on. Always attack in plains. Always try to defend in hills, mountains, or forrests.
--Generals
--Combat width and army composition. You want a front row of infantry + cavalry equal to your combat width. For most nations, a small number of cavalry (2 to 6, depending on combat width) is optimal. Your rear row should be exclusively artillery. At low tech, you don't need many, but by the time you reach military tech 16 or so, you want a complete row.
--Sending in a second army to reinforce the first in large battles after significant damage has been done to your side.
--Making sure your troops are fully funded in wartime and have time to reach max morale.
--Drilling
--Advisor and ruler bonuses
--National and military idea groups

When you say "literally RNG AI favored, always," you're wrong. I win close to 100% of the battles I fight, and you can too if you take the time to learn the game. But first you have to admit that you need to learn. Once you do, you'll realize that the AI is bad at fighting. That's the biggest advantage a skilled player has.

Sorry but this is BS. I just had my 8k army defeated by an already demoralized from prior combat 3k army, when attacking in open fields with no terrain bonuses and equal generals. Was within the 1st year of gameplay as japan against another daimyo. The game is blatantly rigged in the AI's favor, particularly in iron man mode, which this was. This is the most blatant example of it I've seen since it was so early in the game and there was literally no logical explanation as a result.

On top of what grotacias already mention, early game there are several key military techs that if the AI gets before you will put you at a huge disadvantage in combat (by the same token if you get them first, then YOU have the advantage).

[Richie Rich]

Originally posted by Black_Rat:

Originally posted by Mr. Awesome:

Sorry but this is BS. I just had my 8k army defeated by an already demoralized from prior combat 3k army, when attacking in open fields with no terrain bonuses and equal generals. Was within the 1st year of gameplay as japan against another daimyo. The game is blatantly rigged in the AI's favor, particularly in iron man mode, which this was. This is the most blatant example of it I've seen since it was so early in the game and there was literally no logical explanation as a result.

On top of what grotacias already mention, early game there are several key military techs that if the AI gets before you will put you at a huge disadvantage in combat (by the same token if you get them first, then YOU have the advantage).

just tried the game again... I got morale boost (like that one from Defensive ideas which is 15% morale) and still I lose battles (early game) agains smaller armies... just because the enemy rolls dices for 5+ and I roll for 0-1 or 2 thats has nothing to do with "learning" the game or mechanics, is just RNG and its bad, so I still think combat in this game is ♥♥♥♥

Another GREAT thing about this game, as soon as you lose ONE battle, you get so many penalties its like so difficult to win another battle (same army) after that one, even if your army supposedly recovered morale and manpower. Dumb game

https://imgur.com/nYtVZyl <--- nice, AI army of 3k vs 12k (at 80% morale) and I almost lost, wonder why...

[grotaclas]

Originally posted by Hurrah:

https://imgur.com/nYtVZyl <--- nice, AI army of 3k vs 12k (at 80% morale) and I almost lost, wonder why...

That's relatively easy to explain: You are at least 2 military techs behind. Your 0.7 tactics indicate either tech 4 or 5 and your enemy's 1.2 tactics indicate either tech 7 or 8. Besides the 66% more tactics (which is already an enormous bonus), your enemy has at least 50% more infantry shock and infantry fire than you have.