Institution spawning mechanic

[Tohtori Leka]

Anyone know how the game chooses where the institutions initially appear? I don't mean the prerequisites for them but the choice from those that meet the prerequisites.

I'm currently playing as Japan and for fun I'm trying to create an alternative path of history where instead of Europe, Asia is the cradle of technological advancement. Meaning that Asian countries do not just keep up with technology but are the spearhead of innovation and Europe would fall behind. For this I need most of the institutions to spawn in Asia.

I managed to get Colonization in Japan and the next would be Printing Press.
In the game it says that it can appear in a province if Musashi(my capital) is either protestant, reformed or in the North or South Germany region.
So what exactly does the "can appear in A province" mean when the prerequisite is that my capital is either protestant or reformed? Does it mean that it can appear in any of my provinces even if they are not protestant or reformed as long as my capital is? Or can it appear only in provinces that meet the prerequisites in a country whose capital also meets the prerequisites?
Which leads us to the main question; how does the game choose where it appears? Obviously it's some kind of lottery but does the game first choose a random country whose capital meets the prerequisites and then a province belonging to that country or does it choose straight from all the provinces where it can appear? The latter would make my chances of gaining it really low.

[equinox1911]

Afaik there are true details on the mechanics behind Institution spawn mechanics beyond the stuff in the wiki. Which only clarifies Global Trade as spawning in the highest value trade node.
The rest is just speculation on my part.
Renaissance: i think this one is pure random, it just chooses from the list of provinces or tags that meet the requirement.
Colonialism: the tag to found the first colony or the one with the most.
Printing Press: possibly the first nation to switch state religion.
Manufactories: the tag that has the most manufactories, maybe considering number of em vs provinces owned
Enlightenment: same as manufactories but for universities.

Those are at least my suspicions, it's hard to test since they are so rare and i only play ironman these days.

[Bird the III]

Originally posted by equinox1911:

Afaik there are true details on the mechanics behind Institution spawn mechanics beyond the stuff in the wiki. Which only clarifies Global Trade as spawning in the highest value trade node.
The rest is just speculation on my part.
Renaissance: i think this one is pure random, it just chooses from the list of provinces or tags that meet the requirement.
Colonialism: the tag to found the first colony or the one with the most.
Printing Press: possibly the first nation to switch state religion.
Manufactories: the tag that has the most manufactories, maybe considering number of em vs provinces owned
Enlightenment: same as manufactories but for universities.

Those are at least my suspicions, it's hard to test since they are so rare and i only play ironman these days.

as far as i understand them they are all semi-random.

there are some trigger conditions for every constitution if you fullfill them you are in the pool of a "dice throw"

the conditions are found here
http://www.eu4wiki.com/Institutions

[Tohtori Leka]

There is always some amount of randomness. I tested this with my current game which is not ironman. I saved the game just before the first year each institution can appear and after the institution appeared I reloaded the game from that save and when the the institution appeared again it appeared in different province and different country. Tested it with multiple times and there was variation in it, so there is randomness in the choice.

[Tohtori Leka]

Originally posted by Bird the III:

Originally posted by equinox1911:

Afaik there are true details on the mechanics behind Institution spawn mechanics beyond the stuff in the wiki. Which only clarifies Global Trade as spawning in the highest value trade node.
The rest is just speculation on my part.
Renaissance: i think this one is pure random, it just chooses from the list of provinces or tags that meet the requirement.
Colonialism: the tag to found the first colony or the one with the most.
Printing Press: possibly the first nation to switch state religion.
Manufactories: the tag that has the most manufactories, maybe considering number of em vs provinces owned
Enlightenment: same as manufactories but for universities.

Those are at least my suspicions, it's hard to test since they are so rare and i only play ironman these days.

as far as i understand them they are all semi-random.

there are some trigger conditions for every constitution if you fullfill them you are in the pool of a "dice throw"

the conditions are found here
http://www.eu4wiki.com/Institutions

You can also find them in-game in the institutions tab when you hover over the year of it's first possible appearance. It also gives you a checklist if you meet the conditions or not.

[equinox1911]

With what institution did you do the test?

[Tohtori Leka]

Originally posted by equinox1911:

With what institution did you do the test?

Colonialism and Printing Press both. I would assume it's the same with the rest too since most of the game mechanics are probabilities.

[Joe Chip]

I believe institutions can only spawn in Europe though. There is no chance of centering them in Asia.

[Tohtori Leka]

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

I believe institutions can only spawn in Europe though. There is no chance of centering them in Asia.

Only Renaissance is tied to Europe, Italy to be more specific. The others can at least in theory appear in other places but in practice it's more probable that they spawn in Europe. In a normal game it would be really hard to center them elsewhere and take also a lot of luck but it is possible.

[equinox1911]

Reading through the files the only one that can be predicted and is deterministic is Global Trade. It will always go to the tag that owns most of the trade in the higest value trade node.

The rest are all [met condition] = [chance to get it] on a provincial level. The only thing that is unclear are these:
start_chance = 25 #in 100 for when a province can_start
They differ from 5 - 25 and i am not really sure what they do as they seem to be per institution. Maybe the system is set up that for the event a list is generated with all eligible provinces, then the order is randomized after that every entry until success will have the start_chance as a % of spawning.

Anyways it seems the only way to influence the outcome (besides GT) seems to be getting a bigger number of eligible provinces.

Btw someone at pdx doesn't like Golestan, it is literaly the only province were feudalism can't spawn :)

[equinox1911]

Well printing press is bound to europe for all intense and purposes.

[equinox1911]

To facilitate manufactories you should put you capital in the higest number area and devlop everything in it to 20.

[equinox1911]

Same goes for enlightenment, but you NEED a 5/5/5 ruler.
Welp i was hoping the code would allow for more player agency in it, but there we have it :S