Killing Floor 2

Killing Floor 2

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BULiK Apr 15, 2015 @ 2:03pm
Linux?
Your page doesn't mention linux or OSX at all, but I really need to know if Linux is either currently supported or confirmed for later down the pipeline, and when do you think you [devs] get that out?
Originally posted by [TW]Yoshiro:
Currently all progress on a Linux Client is indefinitely on hold. While progress was made towards getting the game client to run on the platform, we have been unable to find a person or persons to finish the work needed to make a client.

The major bottleneck has been getting the rendering system up and running (the key part of the client) as the engine now works on platform (the server is the engine minus a client and loading assets it doesn't need to render/trigger). During Killing Floor 2's development a choice was made to rewrite the DirectX rendering system. This in turn means many of the "turn key" Unreal porting solutions that existed do not apply to Killing Floor 2, as they all assume that the game is using the default Unreal 3 rendering pipeline.

So far the third parties we have talked to either do not want to undertake the creation of a new OpenGL rendering pipeline from the ground up (due to time and effort involved) or have quoted a price that makes it beyond consideration (the cost versus estimated return math does not come even close to making sense based on previous Killing Floor 1 Linux sales when charted against Killing Floor 2).

If that changes, we will be happy to re-open development of a Linux client, but until that point it is on hold.
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Showing 421-435 of 446 comments
Pray Jan 3 @ 1:52pm 
Originally posted by Pyc:
you wait linux port? :D it's no longer in roadmap

You got the source? No ketchup.
Last edited by Pray; Jan 3 @ 1:53pm
Pyc Jan 3 @ 1:55pm 
Originally posted by Pray:
Originally posted by Pyc:
you wait linux port? :D it's no longer in roadmap

You got the source? No ketchup.
read this thread (I know, it need more time)
A Global Moderator has marked a post as the answer to the topic above.
[TW]Yoshiro  [developer] Jan 3 @ 2:33pm 
Currently all progress on a Linux Client is indefinitely on hold. While progress was made towards getting the game client to run on the platform, we have been unable to find a person or persons to finish the work needed to make a client.

The major bottleneck has been getting the rendering system up and running (the key part of the client) as the engine now works on platform (the server is the engine minus a client and loading assets it doesn't need to render/trigger). During Killing Floor 2's development a choice was made to rewrite the DirectX rendering system. This in turn means many of the "turn key" Unreal porting solutions that existed do not apply to Killing Floor 2, as they all assume that the game is using the default Unreal 3 rendering pipeline.

So far the third parties we have talked to either do not want to undertake the creation of a new OpenGL rendering pipeline from the ground up (due to time and effort involved) or have quoted a price that makes it beyond consideration (the cost versus estimated return math does not come even close to making sense based on previous Killing Floor 1 Linux sales when charted against Killing Floor 2).

If that changes, we will be happy to re-open development of a Linux client, but until that point it is on hold.
Last edited by [TW]Yoshiro; Jan 3 @ 2:37pm
Pyc Jan 3 @ 3:02pm 
Originally posted by TWYoshiro:
If that changes, we will be happy to re-open development of a Linux client, but until that point it is on hold.
does this mean that the development is closed? and wait until something changes, there is no point
Opinel Jan 3 @ 3:13pm 
Originally posted by TWYoshiro:
Currently all progress on a Linux Client is indefinitely on hold. While progress was made towards getting the game client to run on the platform, we have been unable to find a person or persons to finish the work needed to make a client.

The major bottleneck has been getting the rendering system up and running (the key part of the client) as the engine now works on platform (the server is the engine minus a client and loading assets it doesn't need to render/trigger). During Killing Floor 2's development a choice was made to rewrite the DirectX rendering system. This in turn means many of the "turn key" Unreal porting solutions that existed do not apply to Killing Floor 2, as they all assume that the game is using the default Unreal 3 rendering pipeline.

So far the third parties we have talked to either do not want to undertake the creation of a new OpenGL rendering pipeline from the ground up (due to time and effort involved) or have quoted a price that makes it beyond consideration (the cost versus estimated return math does not come even close to making sense based on previous Killing Floor 1 Linux sales when charted against Killing Floor 2).

If that changes, we will be happy to re-open development of a Linux client, but until that point it is on hold.
While I understand the issues with contracting someone to make such a thing, I fail to understand how you can't find a person to employ as you once did previously. Unless you're telling me that there is nobody out there in the whole world with the skillset and looking for a job. It sounds like you aren't looking hard enough to hire new staff to work on this in house, which is ultimately disappointing. I can't forgive this, because it isn't asking you to do something unreasonable such as paying well over the return on investment for an outside studio.

Why is it difficult to hire people?
[TW]Yoshiro  [developer] Jan 3 @ 3:54pm 
Originally posted by Opinel:

Why is it difficult to hire people?

This industry, sadly, is quite full of studios willing to staff up for a project or need, only to let personnel or the entire team go when it is done. We are not one of those studios. We hire for the long term and only hire new staff when we feel we can keep them employed as long as they want to work for Tripwire. This means we are slow to grow at times, but our growth has been steady and we have not over extended.
Last edited by [TW]Yoshiro; Jan 3 @ 4:09pm
Opinel Jan 3 @ 4:11pm 
Originally posted by TWYoshiro:
Originally posted by Opinel:

Why is it difficult to hire people?

This industry, sadly, is quite full of studios willing to staff up for a project or need, only to let personnel or the entire team go when it is done. We are not one of those studios. We hire for the long term and only hire new staff when we feel we can keep them employed as long as they want to work for Tripwire. This means we are slow to grow at times, but our growth has been steady and we have not over extended.

As to the engine team itself, it is one of our newest teams at Tripwire. We often contract with third parties to help us fill in development gaps left by how our team is grown.
Fair enough. While I am still displeased, at least I can come to understand, and genuinely respect your position and status. That said, I would really urge you to do the very best you can to find someone that works for not just the project, but you guys as a studio.

I appreciate everything you do, and Killing Floor has been a solid pillar in my gaming life for quite a while now. That said, I can and do run KF2 pretty well under Wine. Specifically wine-2.21 (Staging). I have not yet noticed any issues with this at all, except that I cannot convince Steam to use the in-game overlay. Until such time as the game can run natively on Linux, I can at least be happy knowing it IS playable. That said, is there perhaps anything you could do to make a sort of half-port that just wraps it through wine but under the main linux native Steam for the time being?
Well, though I am sad that the version is indefinitely on hold, I'm at least happy that you haven't just been sitting on your laurels, either. I had a feeling that the heavily customized UE3 would make the project very difficult. If nothing else, you don't appear to have written off the possibility of making a Linux version it seems.

If nothing else, I appreciate you letting us know and being honest about it.

As a final note, have you heard of Icculus? His site is here: https://icculus.org/~icculus/ He has been advertising for a while that he ports games for free/his Patreon supporters. If nothing else, he might be worth investigating.

It's a long shot, but you never know.

Regardless, thank you for the time you have spent responding to us. I think I can say safely that we appreciate it.
Originally posted by TWYoshiro:
Originally posted by Opinel:

Why is it difficult to hire people?

This industry, sadly, is quite full of studios willing to staff up for a project or need, only to let personnel or the entire team go when it is done. We are not one of those studios. We hire for the long term and only hire new staff when we feel we can keep them employed as long as they want to work for Tripwire. This means we are slow to grow at times, but our growth has been steady and we have not over extended.
based af

sucks though was gonna gift a friend this game during the sale but then he told me he has a mac and doesn't run most window games without linux
Pray Jan 4 @ 4:43am 
The dream is dead 2014-2017. :2016villain:
Thanks Yoshiro for the explanation.

I have to agree with what others have said, where the very least that could be done is to wrap the game in Wine. This wasn't an option when the game was first released, but Wine has caught up to the point where the game runs flawlessly in DirectX 10 mode.

That way, you don't need to rewrite anything. All that's required is a bit of additional testing before releasing new builds - which should be a thing regardless.
Pyc Jan 4 @ 5:16am 
Originally posted by boltronics:
Thanks Yoshiro for the explanation.

I have to agree with what others have said, where the very least that could be done is to wrap the game in Wine. This wasn't an option when the game was first released, but Wine has caught up to the point where the game runs flawlessly in DirectX 10 mode.

That way, you don't need to rewrite anything. All that's required is a bit of additional testing before releasing new builds - which should be a thing regardless.
release AAA-game with wine? not good idea:)
Originally posted by TWYoshiro:
Originally posted by Opinel:

Why is it difficult to hire people?

[…] We hire for the long term and only hire new staff when we feel we can keep them employed as long as they want to work for Tripwire. This means we are slow to grow at times, but our growth has been steady and we have not over extended.
You know that Linux developers usually can write more software than Linux-specific code and could help you with debugging the engine code itself, right?
Surely you also know that bug-free software doesn't really exist and Tripwire is a company which can probably use an additional programmer, not only for this project but also other games.

The potential developer can also probably work on server or networking code which often involves Linux knowledge.

You could also have one of your current programmers who's willing to undergo further training visit a Linux programming course, which would probably be cheaper than hiring a new person.

So while I appreciate responses ITT, I don't really take your response without a grain of salt. I hope you can re-evaluate the position you're posting here, since, as many others ITT stated, the demand for a Linux client is there.

I get that the modifications to a heavily modded UE3 engine would be non-trivial, but you could also sell the ported code to other developers struggling with bringing UE3 to Linux, since even if it's a dying engine, there are a lot of games made with it still being sold and developed further. Even if the port doesn't really work, the effort put into it could prove valuable in the long run, as it may help your programmers write more portable code in the future.

And last but not least, you could hire a 3rd party as suggested ITT, maybe even just help one guy with a passion to port with a few hundred Euros every month to give you valuable feedback for sorting out bugs.

Sure, I'm just a backseat programmer and I don't know your company, but I guess there's more to this than just "we can't find anybody". Maybe it's just too expensive, but then state exactly that. Throw us some numbers on ROI calculations because I guess you have been doing that.
Originally posted by Pyc:
release AAA-game with wine? not good idea:)

You mean like Two Worlds, X-Blades, Earth 2160, Knights and Merchants, System Shock 2, World War II: Panzer Claws and Iron Sky Invasion, to name but a few?
Pyc Jan 6 @ 6:03am 
Originally posted by boltronics:
Originally posted by Pyc:
release AAA-game with wine? not good idea:)

You mean like Two Worlds, X-Blades, Earth 2160, Knights and Merchants, System Shock 2, World War II: Panzer Claws and Iron Sky Invasion, to name but a few?
I doesn't know this games
ok, this is good ports? I try kf2 via wine and this is unplayable for me
Last edited by Pyc; Jan 6 @ 6:03am
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Date Posted: Apr 15, 2015 @ 2:03pm
Posts: 446