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VShadow
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 12:21am
[solved!] Strange mystery "numbers" on phone in Here and There Along the Echo (spoilers)
This thread discusses a certain element of the telephone interaction in the "Here and There Along the Echo" game. If you don't already have the (free) download, it is a supplement to the regular acts of Kentucky Route Zero, and it was released on the KRZ website. The thread discussing it is here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/231200/discussions/0/620695877139986585/

Warning! This thread contains spoilers about the phone "game", specifically "the numbers." If you haven't heard the numbers within the game yet and would prefer to find them yourself before reading this thread, you should stop now ;)

SPOILERS AHEAD

UPDATE: Mystery solved
Message decoded (or at least part(s) of it). See post #5 below for how it was solved.


Decoded:

By night we suffer, wandering, night frees the imprisoned spirits,
and his cage abandoned Cerberus himself strays. At dawn the law demands return to the
pools of Lethe: we are borne across, and the ferryman counts the load he’s carried.


Post #6 has information on the source of this selection.

Read the rest of this post if you'd like to try to solve the mystery yourself!

Here is the audio of the mysterious numbers

http://youtu.be/msar8tdc4zs


-Overview-
If you let the phone sit for a while without picking up the receiver, it will ring. You can receive several different calls this way. All of them are slightly odd; one of them is a female voice reciting a long string of numbers. In and of itself, this is strange, but when you consider the inspiration for this, it becomes even stranger.

-Numbers Stations-
Numbers stations are real-world shortwave radio broadcasts.

From Wikipedia:
A numbers station is a type of shortwave radio station characterized by unusual broadcasts, reading out lists of numbers or incomprehensible morse code messages. The voices are often created by speech synthesis and are transmitted in a wide variety of languages. The voices are usually female, although sometimes men's or children's voices are used.
Full entry on Number Stations: Wikipedia[en.wikipedia.org]

Very little is known about these stations, they don't always transmit constantly. Sometimes they will just begin transmitting a series of single digit numbers (ex: one-four-five-nine...), sometimes it will include letters or words in the sequence. Some of these stations have been traced (not easy) using triangulation to government property in various locations around the US and the world. There are tons of conspiracy theories as to who is behind these stations, ranging from governments to illuminati to aliens to drug runners and hoaxers. They've been documented as far back as World War 1.

-Here and There Along the Echo-
You can receive a call that sounds exactly like a numbers station broadcast. The entire broadcast is 40 minutes long. It starts with 7011 (pause) 2 (pause) 7011. From that point on, every single segment is a series of five numbers, a pause, a repetition of those exact same five numbers, a pause, and then a new sequence of five numbers and so on.

-What do they mean?-
Who knows. Very few real-world numbers transmissions have been decoded, so KRZ's numbers broadcast could just be an easter egg homage to the real things.

-May 8th Cardboard tweet of an actual numbers station video-
Cardboard Computer tweeted a link to a random youtube recording of a numbers station in response to a question about how far along Act 4 was (in %).

Here's the tweet from May 8, 2014: May 8th tweet
Audio of a numbers station (real life) Youtube Video
(it's creepy as heck - ignore the fact it was posted on April 1, there are any number of other numbers stations videos like that one - the video isn't an April Fool's joke.)

I don't believe there was any significance to choosing that particular youtube video, it was just a witty response to the question. Maybe the creators simply felt numbers stations are so cool and intriguing that they put one in the game for fun. If this were true, however, why create a 40 minute long sequence?

The Numbers
Here's a transcription of the numbers

The recording begins with:

7011 (pause) 2 (pause) 7011 (pause)

The following are then groups of five numbers in this format:

aaaaa (pause) aaaaa (pause) bbbbb (pause) bbbbb (pause) ccccc (etc)

(extra line breaks after every 5 sets are for easier browsing only)

63244 76131 84086 58068 65071

87198 82223 73047 10187 76204

91054 68056 54049 00174 79228

28007 98137 90032 17046 01171

81084 19134 34063 05139 52087

28068 49078 17194 11057 99171

96041 67042 36181 24193 47071

61041 63083 50126 52159 62171

87081 07185 27144 98133 57044

45039 16182 10152 73080 20179

26081 06190 67187 00007 68136

37031 54071 26084 14185 69026

59008 05067 76048 32009 19010

54009 84137 43031 75149 48138

96042 72034 26027 15048 75178

96017 35041 81177 55200 64187

54073 17087 10123 86184 17047

79114 77058 88183 84191 15175

92002 94247 00186 57004 05192

71034 04009 48229 42132 97199

27076 17043 99117 34000 49225

08033 14040 33127 80000 69139

58037 12185 03170 76044 42196

69206 75179 39131 77194 45144

12190 44073 38049 32156 98141

49142 62116 63187 88142 12055

02118 53046 29190 56079 75047

34228 96049 87004 00171 97044

92012 96144 30179 37138 96047

21001 70021 53172 99140 13181

37180 50002 93131 79034 91190

52077 73042 58056 04047 81172

34176 56243 62125 11007 08138

15026 03141 73201 64134 84195

04185 48197 12072 32047 46110

47145 08002 06036 73075 20044

07189 97021 73001 79170 43179

70088 60040 19034

(that's the entire 40 minute recording - 188 units of 5 digits, plus the initial 7011-2-7011)

Decoding the numbers
Any ideas? I don't have much at this point (if they can even be decoded). I get the sense that 7011 (pause) 2 (pause) 7011 might be the decryption key because it's the only oddball in the entire thing, but other than that I'm lost. I've googled the heck out of 5 number encryption, the number "7011" (which doesn't seem to be significant). I've tried stringing the numbers together and throwing them into various hex/decimal/ascii converters, and found nothing.

Potentially useful tool: Ascii/Hex/Binary/Decimal converter[www.asciitohex.com]

So if anyone is interested in taking a crack at it, post here and maybe we can find something interesting hidden in there.

Be aware, however, that this could be a wild goose, intended to be just as mysterious and unsolvable as a real-world number station.

-Observations-
1 - Suigetsushin theorized that each segment could represent a date. (Format is not YY_DD_M, but this theory did led to observation #2 below)

2 - The 3rd number in each segment is always 0, 1, or 2* (most are 0 and 1, with a few rare 2s).
The 5th number is never 0. The 5th number is rarely 0, and a 0 doesn't appear as the 5th digit until after the 10 minute mark
Last edited by VShadow; Nov 4, 2014 @ 10:40pm
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roomer8
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 2:22am 
I found a possible pattern: They could be dates: YY_DD_M, although you can't have dates from october to december because it would need 6 numbers..dunno, I love this kind of things, will think more about this in the near future :D!

EDIT: I didn't see that one of the numbers has a 00 in the DD position, so my theory is clearly wrong :/
Last edited by roomer8; Nov 3, 2014 @ 2:24am
#1
VShadow
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 3:11am 
Originally posted by Suigetsushin:
I found a possible pattern: They could be dates: YY_DD_M, although you can't have dates from october to december because it would need 6 numbers..dunno, I love this kind of things, will think more about this in the near future :D!

EDIT: I didn't see that one of the numbers has a 00 in the DD position, so my theory is clearly wrong :/
Yeah, it's not YY_DD_M, but your post just pointed out something incredibly interesting:

The number in the center position (_ _ x _ _ ) is always 0, 1, or 2. This could be very significant, and might even prove that these are more than random numbers. I'll be transcribing the rest of the audio when I get a chance (as I said, it's 40 min long so it takes some time).

Also possibly significant: So far, the last number (_ _ _ _ x) is never a zero.A zero appears in the 5th slot, but the first time this happens is after 10 minutes into the recording. So zeroes are rare in the 5th spot.

Last edited by VShadow; Nov 3, 2014 @ 3:57am
#2
roomer8
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 3:24am 
Yeah, I just realised it too, but you already wrote that! I'll keep in mind this info!

EDIT: Did you notice that when the third digit is 2, the number after that is always in the 0-4 range?

It looks like the numbers 3 and 4 together only form numbers from 00 to 24....
Well to me it looks like the hours of the day or some 24-based system...
The only weak point of this is that the 2 in third position is very rare, we don't have enough cases to treat this information as a rule.
Last edited by roomer8; Nov 3, 2014 @ 4:48am
#3
VShadow
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 6:20am 
I may be onto something big... Using your theory about the 3rd and 4th digits (no numbers larger than 25), this relates to our alphabet. Be back in a second to see where this takes me!

#4
VShadow
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 6:34am 
UPDATED - solution to the numbers

Here's how the cipher works:

First of all, I'm ignoring the 1st, 2nd, and 5th digit. For now, I will look at them as garbage digits.

The third and fourth digits are the key, since they are always from 00 to 25, which = our alphabet. 0 = A, 1 = B, and so on through 25 = Z.

So, for the first several groups of numbers (including the 7011, but interpreting it as 07011), we have this:

07011 63244 76131 84086 58068 65071 87198 82223 73047 10187 76204 91054 68056 54049 00174 79228 28007 98137 90032 17046 01171 81084 19134

STEP 1
Eliminate the "noise" (the 1st, 2nd, and 5th digits)

results (all digits lie from zero to 25):

01 24 13 08 06 07 19 22 04 18 20 05 05 04 17 22 00 13 03 04 17 08

STEP 2

Substitute. 00=A, 01=B, 02=C, etc.

results:

BYNIGHTWESUFFERWANDERING

(By night we suffer wandering)

I will post again after I've finished the whole message!
Last edited by VShadow; Nov 3, 2014 @ 8:28am
#5
VShadow
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 6:44am 
DECODED MESSAGE:

B Y N I G H T W E S U F F E R W A N D E R I N G N I G H T F R E E S T H E I M P R I S O N E D S P I R I T S A N D H I S C A G E A B A N D O N E D C E R B E R U S H I M S E L F S T R A Y S A T D A W N T H E L A W D E M A N D S R E T U R N T O T H E P O O L S O F L E T H E W E A R E B O R N E A C R O S S A N D T H E F E R R Y M A N C O U N T S T H E L O A D H E S C A R R I E D

With spaces:
By night we suffer wandering night frees the imprisoned spirits and his cage abandoned cerberus himself strays at dawn the law demands return to the pool of lethe we are borne across and the ferryman counts the load he's carried

And cleaned up with punctuation; thanks to Voider for pointing out this is a direct quote from "Elegiae" (elegies) by Sextus Propertius (For some reason, my Google-fu failed me earlier today when I was working on it!)

By night we suffer, wandering; night frees the imprisoned spirits,
and his cage abandoned Cerberus himself strays. At dawn the law demands return to the
pools of Lethe: we are borne across, and the ferryman counts the load he’s carried.

Link to the entire work is here (this quote is from the section titled "Cynthia: From Beyond the Grave" PDF[people.uncw.edu]

And here's the selection in its context:
Write, on a column’s midst, this verse, worthy of me but brief, so the traveller,
hurrying, from the city, might read:
HERE IN TIBUR’S EARTH LIES CYNTHIA THE GOLDEN:
ANIO FRESH PRAISE IS ADDED TO YOUR SHORES.Propertius 12
And don’t deny the dreams that come through sacred gateways: when sacred dreams
come, they carry weight. By night we suffer, wandering, night frees the imprisoned spirits,
and his cage abandoned Cerberus himself strays. At dawn the law demands return to the
pools of Lethe: we are borne across, and the ferryman counts the load he’s carried.
Now, let others have you: soon I alone will hold you: you’ll be with me, I’ll wear away
the bone joined with bone.’
After she’d ended, in complaint, her quarrel with me her shadow swiftly slipped from
my embrace.

It seems some of this could be referring to the workers in the Hard Times distillery, if not all the characters in KRZ.

Cerberus is the three headed guard dog of the underworld. Wikipedia[en.wikipedia.org]

The ferryman is probably referring to Charon, who ferries the dead to the underworld. Wikipedia[en.wikipedia.org]

Please note there may be more hidden within the numbers (because I disregarded the 1st, 2nd, and 5th digits as decoys).
Last edited by VShadow; Nov 3, 2014 @ 7:31pm
#6
VShadow
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 7:52am 
So major kudos to the guys at Cardboard Computer for throwing a very cool puzzle our way. I'm felling like there might be more hidden things to be decoded in the phone calls you receive, since some of the others are very mysterious sounding.

Thanks Suigetsushin for really honing in on the unique nature of the 3rd and 4th digits, which led me to the solution!
Last edited by VShadow; Nov 3, 2014 @ 8:17am
#7
roomer8
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 9:06am 
Wow, awesome job, VShadow! probably the ferryman is a double reference to Charon and to the real ferryman of the Mucky Mammoth, The ferry boat we have to get on at the end of act 3!
Kinda OT, but I was thinking: every intermission episode was an introduction to the next act:
-Limits and Demonstrations is about Lula's art and architecture, misplaced things and places, and so is act ii (bureau of reclaimed spaces, museum of dwellings);
-The entertainment brings on front the importance an weight of debt and alcoholism in the story, and act iii culminates in the Hard times distillery and Conway's debt;
-Here and there along the Echo is a guide about tours on a subterranean river, and we already know that act iii ends with the party waiting for the mucky mammoth to reach dogwood drive.

I expect the next act to be boat-centered, also for the anchor-road on the zero, with all those navigation-related objects (beacon, compass, buoy, whirlpool..., The whirlpool look seriously dangerous for Conway & co.!)


I will concentrate on the remaining digits of this code in order to know if they're relevant or only a noise to hide the real information we already got, and then onto the others mysterious messages!
#8
VShadow
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 9:18am 
Yes, I totally agree about all your analysis. I played the three acts before any of the intermission acts, so I've forgotten some of the chronology, but you're correct about the connections. I would guess that Act 4 would focus on the river (as hinted in this intermission, the message hidden in the numbers, and the ferry at the end of act 3).

I think soon I'll go back and play through the game from the beginning including the intermissions to really solidify the story in my mind.

I have so many thoughts on the allegory and symbolism as well as perhaps some literal interpretations (are these characters actually living in purgatory? A computer simulation? A dream?). Even though much of it has been covered by some great posts, I'll eventually have to write my thoughts down or I'll go nuts.
#9
shawn·m
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 2:54pm 
Impressive, very impressive work.
#10
Voider
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 3:24pm 
I apologize if this was mentioned earlier, but if the decoding is correct, which I believe it is, then it is a direct quote from Sextus Propertius's "Elegiae."

As such, I would consider seeing how the Elegiac Couplet, the rhyming scheme used in that poem, would help you with this decoding.
Last edited by Voider; Nov 3, 2014 @ 3:31pm
#11
jacobhockey13
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 6:16pm 
It's either referring to The Aeneid or The Divine Comedy or most likely both. Counting the load refers to how Conway and his squad are still mortal and their bodies weigh down the ship opposed to the boys at Hard Times (who are literally skeletons and empty of body). In The Divine Comedy when this happens Dante enters the Fifth Circle which is the wrathful. Previous circles were gluttony and avarice which loosely matches with debt. First act would have to be about Limbo.

Also, the fact they are going on a river now (fraught with whirlpools = Charybdis?) brings obvious parallels with The Odyssey. Besides the obvious searching for Dogwood Drive which is similar to Odysseus's quest to return home. Also, I can't be the only one to have named my dog Homer.

Lastly, has anyone tried dialing the number with the extensions? I know for a fact there were two and I wrote them down but I was too lazy to redo it and try it.
#12
Voider
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 6:30pm 
Originally posted by jacobhockey13:
It's either referring to The Aeneid or The Divine Comedy or most likely both. Counting the load refers to how Conway and his squad are still mortal and their bodies weigh down the ship opposed to the boys at Hard Times (who are literally skeletons and empty of body). In The Divine Comedy when this happens Dante enters the Fifth Circle which is the wrathful. Previous circles were gluttony and avarice which loosely matches with debt. First act would have to be about Limbo.

Also, the fact they are going on a river now (fraught with whirlpools = Charybdis?) brings obvious parallels with The Odyssey. Besides the obvious searching for Dogwood Drive which is similar to Odysseus's quest to return home. Also, I can't be the only one to have named my dog Homer.

Lastly, has anyone tried dialing the number with the extensions? I know for a fact there were two and I wrote them down but I was too lazy to redo it and try it.

It is a direct quote from Sextus Propertius's "Elegiae."
#13
VShadow
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 7:22pm 
Originally posted by Voider:

It is a direct quote from Sextus Propertius's "Elegiae."
Thanks! Google failed me earlier in searching (not sure why), but I've fixed the quotes and cited the source.

Originally posted by jacobhockey13:

Also, the fact they are going on a river now (fraught with whirlpools = Charybdis?) brings obvious parallels with The Odyssey. Besides the obvious searching for Dogwood Drive which is similar to Odysseus's quest to return home. Also, I can't be the only one to have named my dog Homer.
We know that they've drawn from a number of plays and literary works, so I would say it likely that the Odyssey, Aeneid, as well as Dante's Inferno are used in an allegorical sense to some degree. The Inferno's mythology is practically woven into our modern perceptions of hell and purgatory, so it's almost impossible to do a story about the dead (or a purgatorial existence) and not have at least some connectivity. If you look at the nine circles of hell in Inferno, you could probably see all of them displayed in KRZ. (Limbo, lust, gluttony, greed, anger, heresy, violence, fraud, treachery ... I'd say KRZ has most of those covered -- or it will in the future -- but then again, so does almost any work of fiction).

Lastly, has anyone tried dialing the number with the extensions? I know for a fact there were two and I wrote them down but I was too lazy to redo it and try it.
Yup! There are even more extensions that have been discovered (check the "full" thread on Here and There Along the Zero for more).
Last edited by VShadow; Nov 3, 2014 @ 7:38pm
#14
jacobhockey13
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Nov 3, 2014 @ 8:59pm 
Originally posted by VShadow:
Originally posted by Voider:

It is a direct quote from Sextus Propertius's "Elegiae."
Thanks! Google failed me earlier in searching (not sure why), but I've fixed the quotes and cited the source.

Originally posted by jacobhockey13:


Lastly, has anyone tried dialing the number with the extensions? I know for a fact there were two and I wrote them down but I was too lazy to redo it and try it.
Yup! There are even more extensions that have been discovered (check the "full" thread on Here and There Along the Zero for more).


Thanks VShadow and Voider. I've just been checking out the other threads and wanted to say they are really cool. You guys do a really good job and I am amazed by how smart/erudite people are here.
#15
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Date Posted: Nov 3, 2014 @ 12:21am
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