Divinity: Original Sin (Classic)

Divinity: Original Sin (Classic)

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KelnMaari Jul 24, 2014 @ 6:43pm
Linux, to be or not to be?
Questions for developers... Linux version in planed? Or not?
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Showing 376-390 of 419 comments
d10sfan Oct 22, 2015 @ 8:54pm 
Originally posted by Ssenkrad_II:
Originally posted by expe:
So what's the likelihood of Larian cancelling the Linux version and keeping the money backers gave them?

Zero percent. They have already offered refunds, probably in the hope that the group will just move on...

Doesn't sound like a group they (or any sane individual) would try to target anytime in the future, a minority in an even smaller minority that has zero patience/understanding.

Clearly they made a mistake making promises towards Linux users and frankly they are such a small target audience I don't know why they don't just cut their loses and wash their hands of the whole group; seems like keeping them dangling is doing no one any good.
I think Linux users have had plently of patience, it's been almost two years...
Ssenkrad_II Oct 22, 2015 @ 9:02pm 
Since release or since backing the game originally?
Wuffyhumps Oct 23, 2015 @ 12:06am 
Originally posted by Teodosio:
At the end of the day it is their loss really. Time ago I would have been willing to buy this game full price; now I won't touch it until it is 80% discount or more.

Or 100% off depending on your opinion of them, if you think it's still moral to donate anything at this point, and your budget. :D

It's too bad we can't see their income and expenditures so everyone would know if they actually need money or if they're just using and stealing from everyone. Corruption in capitalism is rampant these days...
Raze_Larian Oct 23, 2015 @ 3:15am 
Originally posted by Keyrock:
And now consoles, platforms that weren't even part of the Kickstarter, are getting the game BEFORE us Linux users are going to get to play it.

Originally posted by Swiftpaw:
By them releasing other versions first it is a clear violation that they COULD, but WON'T.

Given that the primary development platform at Larian is Windows, the Mac and Linux versions must be done after Windows (ie there is additional time needed for porting).
Given that the console versions have an extra certification process and a manufacturing time that must be taken into account for a retail release, while the PC version is digital only, the console version must be done before the PC version.

Obviously, the actual game content (changes, additions, balancing, etc) must be first. Without being able to have separate teams devoted to each platform simultaneously, the only option is to initially focus on the console versions, since they have to be done first. Of course there is some overlap, and these are not all discrete steps, but once the console versions start the certification process, any remaining console issues are cleaned up for final submission, and then the remaining PC specific issue can be looked at (updated keyboard/mouse UI, etc) and the the Windows version finished and sent through QA, and then Mac and Lnux.

You are ascribing financial and moral motives to a process that under the circumstances simply could not be done any other way.


The alternatives:

- no console versions
When the Linux engine was finished being ported earlier this year, it could have been updated to the released version of the game, and been out however long it took after that.
However, that would mean it would have no features added for the EE. D:OS would remain essentially how it is on Windows and Mac, GOTY material, yet with issue which could have been fixed with more development.

- console version, Linux version updated to the released code branch, and then again for the EE
Not feasible.

- console version, Linux version updated just to the released code branch
Ya, that would go over worse that getting a Linux version of the EE but not the original release.

Having the console versions is best for the game, and updating the Linux engine to the EE will make it possible to port future games more easily.
Assuming the EE does well, that means more can be invested into the next games, which will benefit everyone who likes RPGs in the long run.


Originally posted by Keyrock:
You are going to make way more money from console sales than from Linux's meager market share, so put all your effort into that

Most of the things that having a console version necessitated (controller support, engine optimizations and multithreading improvements) or allowed (local co-op, voiced dialogue, rewritten ending, changes to skills and quests, etc) benefit all versions of the game, including the Linux version.


Originally posted by Swiftpaw:
If there was justice in the world, they'd be forced to make it and/or punished for breaking that promise.

It is being made.

You do realize that Windows games get delayed, as well, right? The normal game development process involves changes, additions and cuts to features, localization, platforms, etc. Sometimes, entire games get cancelled.


Originally posted by TobiSGD:
one may think that that is all what they were after, a zero interest loan from Linux people, so that they can put more money in the other versions.

Really? Even if you think the amount of money that could be gotten that way is significant, add up Kickstarter's cut, which they are not refunding, bank fees, the wages and hassle having someone doing manual refunds, etc. How attractive do you think that 'zero interest' loan is looking?

Originally posted by TobiSGD:
Larian has abused how Kickstarter works to the fullest extent

Please look up how Kickstarter works.
Also, look up how many Kickstarter games are late, and see how many Windows users assume this is because the company involved is evil and lied from the start.


Originally posted by Ssenkrad_II:
They have already offered refunds, probably in the hope that the group will just move on...

That would be a naively optimistic hope.

Originally posted by Ssenkrad_II:
Doesn't sound like a group they (or any sane individual) would try to target anytime in the future, a minority in an even smaller minority that has zero patience/understanding.

Hopefully it is just a minority of a minority, though. There are Linux users that do understand the development process, and even if not happy about the delay due to the original mistake about the middleware, recognize that Larian is trying to do the right thing here.


Originally posted by Swiftpaw:
Or 100% off depending on your opinion of them, if you think it's still moral to donate anything at this point

I'm pretty sure you do not understand what morality is.
Last edited by Raze_Larian; Oct 23, 2015 @ 3:22am
d10sfan Oct 23, 2015 @ 6:58am 
Hopefully you can understand why people are frustrated though. It dosen't look good to a consumer when the console versions, something that wasn't on the radar, gets released before a Linux port. This sort of thing wouldn't have happened, had this company done their research before promising something they couldn't deliver in the original version of the game.
After reading this thread: I am ashamed to be a Linux user with this much hate I am surprised they even release a Linux port.
I would have given the Linux users their money back and discontinued the Linux port after reading this thread and I think that if you ask for a refund you get it with no questions asked.

PS: Playing it on my windows partition.
d10sfan Oct 23, 2015 @ 7:15am 
Originally posted by malfunctioning.eddie:
After reading this thread: I am ashamed to be a Linux user with this much hate I am surprised they even release a Linux port.
I would have given the Linux users their money back and discontinued the Linux port after reading this thread and I think that if you ask for a refund you get it with no questions asked.

PS: Playing it on my windows partition.
People have been able to get refunds, which is good. Some would still like the game as promised though. I believe people have a reason to be frustrated.
d10sfan Oct 23, 2015 @ 7:16am 
One piece that confuses me about the earlier post about the timeline offered being the only one workable is why Larian posted on their twitter in a reply that the plan was to release Linux same day as Windows. If the timeline used now was the only ever going to work, why did they say that?
Artist of Chaos Oct 23, 2015 @ 8:12am 
Okay since Raze is confusing the issue let me try. Larian already had a good portion of the game done before the kickstarter. Like morons they didn't use a cross platform engine or tools (middleware that excluded Linux) and made promises they couldn't keep (time and time again) because they still don't understand how to do cross platform properly.

@raze you can't defend them as hard as you try because of the lost credibility from jerking around a fan base that believed in Larian and was burned several times. The lack of updates and news concerning the Linux version being very telling how much they care. There isn't a possiblity of them coming out of this in a positive light so you may as well slink back to whatever rock you hide under and stay there until a Linux version does manifest for all the good your hollow words have done.

@others who think the Linux users aren't being super grateful that at least they haven't washed their hands of us alltogether... Wow you guys are the worst defending this dishonest practice. Shame on you and I hope you do go back to Windows and ARE GRATEFUL that windows allows you to "rent" your PC as it sends everything you do back to big brother.

@those getting upset. All we can do is wait sadly. Cursing and complaining isn't going to help anymore Larian has proven it gives 0 fahks what Linux users want or have to say about anything. Sadly I kickstarted this game and thanks to it will never kickstart another. Larian's inablitly to produce a product for us isn't the problem. It's their complete outlook at how useless Linux gamers are and all the complaining (to Larian anyhow) probably won't make any difference in this case.

Edit: afterthought, If Larian was upfront with the problems saying "sorry guys we're having some trouble porting thanks to middleware issues and looks like we have to write that ourselves sorry for the delay" it would of went miles to making the wait not so painful as almost a year of silence. I still do appreciate that it's coming to Linux, as Raze said porting isn't a very easy task, and that's true. However their credibility isn't good enough at this point for us to think that even if we do get it, it maybe buggy, or given their track record if their are bugs they will never be fixed. If Larian wants respect for putting out a Linux version now, they're going to have to prove they deserve it, bottom line.
Last edited by Artist of Chaos; Oct 23, 2015 @ 8:18am
sudoreboot Oct 23, 2015 @ 9:16am 
@Raze, I do not think you possess the technical knowledge you claim you do and what you say makes little sense. There is no need to develop for one platform first just because it is the platform it is being developed -on-. You can develop on whatever platform you wish and still make sure it is crossplatform compliant. Obviously neither you or your collegues understand this as you have failed pretty hard to do this.

I'm a hobby game dev myself and I develop exclusively on Linux; supporting Win, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS and HTML5 is super duper simple as long as you don't go out and license yourself some proprietary, platform exclusive tool or library.

You just don't want to do QA for the other platforms while you develop using obscure and platform exclusive tools and try to hack crossplatform into it after the fact.

That said, I do not believe this behaviour is malicious in nature. Using us Linux users as a sort of interest-free loan makes no sense as we are such a small market to begin with, the "loan" would be pretty small in the grand scheme of things. No, I think this just reeks of incompetence and a lack of interest in actually making this work. This in conjunction with all your promises however makes this whole deal rather immoral and I will not support your company even a little bit until you have done some rethinking of your practices and an apology or two from the higher ups. Not that I expect this to happen, so this game is off my wishlist and your upcoming titles no longer interest me.
Mr.Fall Oct 23, 2015 @ 9:47am 
Originally posted by SudoReboot:
@Raze, I do not think you possess the technical knowledge you claim you do and what you say makes little sense. There is no need to develop for one platform first just because it is the platform it is being developed -on-. You can develop on whatever platform you wish and still make sure it is crossplatform compliant. Obviously neither you or your collegues understand this as you have failed pretty hard to do this. /quote]

Well on Windows they will use DirectX and on Mac OS X/Linux OpenGL. It isn't that easy to keep that crossplatform. And I don't think the actualy game logic is hard to port, but the displaying stuff is.

Originally posted by SudoReboot:
I'm a hobby game dev myself and I develop exclusively on Linux; supporting Win, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS and HTML5 is super duper simple as long as you don't go out and license yourself some proprietary, platform exclusive tool or library.

Yeah, and because of that you have super knowledge about graphics development. Mobile develpment is a joke regarding this.

Originally posted by SudoReboot:
You just don't want to do QA for the other platforms while you develop using obscure and platform exclusive tools and try to hack crossplatform into it after the fact.

You are right about this, it isn't that hard to guarentee it from the start and it is a lot cheaper to care about this much earlier. There should be _one_ codebase for all plattforms, no _ports_ for others. If some doesn't follow this, they need more time and more ressources in the end. @Raze

Originally posted by SudoReboot:
That said, I do not believe this behaviour is malicious in nature. Using us Linux users as a sort of interest-free loan makes no sense as we are such a small market to begin with, the "loan" would be pretty small in the grand scheme of things. No, I think this just reeks of incompetence and a lack of interest in actually making this work. This in conjunction with all your promises however makes this whole deal rather immoral and I will not support your company even a little bit until you have done some rethinking of your practices and an apology or two from the higher ups. Not that I expect this to happen, so this game is off my wishlist and your upcoming titles no longer interest me.

Yeah, Larian should have try to hire some _real_ Linux graphics devs, which I don't think theys did and then they just didn't know what experience could have told them.
sudoreboot Oct 23, 2015 @ 10:05am 
Originally posted by Sharaka:
Yeah, and because of that you have super knowledge about graphics development. Mobile develpment is a joke regarding this.
I didn't intend to come off as an expert, I merely meant to imply that I have some basic understanding of cross-platform development, hence I included the word "hobby".
Last edited by sudoreboot; Oct 23, 2015 @ 10:06am
Ssenkrad_II Oct 23, 2015 @ 10:06am 
Originally posted by malfunctioning.eddie:
After reading this thread: I am ashamed to be a Linux user with this much hate I am surprised they even release a Linux port.
I would have given the Linux users their money back and discontinued the Linux port after reading this thread and I think that if you ask for a refund you get it with no questions asked.

PS: Playing it on my windows partition.

+1
Mr.Fall Oct 23, 2015 @ 10:08am 
Originally posted by SudoReboot:
Originally posted by Sharaka:
Yeah, and because of that you have super knowledge about graphics development. Mobile develpment is a joke regarding this.
I didn't intend to come off as an expert, I merely meant to imply that I have some basic understanding of cross-platform development.

Yeah I got that, sorry for being a bit harsh. But cross plattform development is more than just "Win, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS and HTML5".

As long as you don't use native APIs you are fine, but for Divinity, DirectX will be used on Windows and Xbox (where here the API is again different compared to the windows one), OpenGL(ES) on others (and then EGL, GLX and CGL).

So in the end you have 4 different APIs you have to support through your code base and I assume you never did it. And there is nothing wrong with this (you not having to code like this, and Larian wanting to support the mayor graphics API)
Last edited by Mr.Fall; Oct 23, 2015 @ 10:09am
Mr.Fall Oct 23, 2015 @ 10:11am 
It was stupid and costly though to develop an own graphic engine.
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Date Posted: Jul 24, 2014 @ 6:43pm
Posts: 419