Have you ever seen Hammerpoint's proof

[Diogenes]

I been reading a lot over the last couple of month's about hackers and ban's and people calling everyone on the game a hacker because they have been killed. Guy's just because you got killed in an online pvp game doesn't mean that everyone is a hacker. You really need to get this idea out of your head's that if you die in a pvp orientated world, sometimes it just comes down to being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If thing's carry on like this, the game world will implode because sooner or later the person doing the accussing will be the accussed. It will end up being person against person, everyone at each other's throat's and that won't make for a good game experience.

Anyway what I am going to ask is if any of you guys who have been banned, Fairly or unfairly and I also don't want to know if you use hack's or not since that has no bearing on the question, Have ever been given or seen any of this "undeniable" proof that Kewk and the dev's at Hammerpoint claim that they have when, or after, they ban you?

[Dr. Vroom]

They provide zero proof of bans. ever. they also have a clause saying they dont have to in their ToS agreement.

Also, not to start this argument, but at least half the players hack, Ive watched friends(who have esp) play, and it is crazy how people know exactly where he would be. Lying prone inside the post office behind the desk? people sater at him through the back wall.
Coming over the top of a hill 300m away? odd that the guy fighting zombies in the town instantly run from the zombies and find a hiding spot.
watching people play ring around the rosie with buildings, pillars, trees, everything.

Im sure MANY of the banned people were indeed hacking, but I also have no doubt in my mind many were not. They never provide proof, and will tell you that straight up if you ask.

[Diogenes]

Messaggio originale di theolaf:

They provide zero proof of bans. ever. they also have a clause saying they dont have to in their ToS agreement.

Also, not to start this argument, but at least half the players hack, Ive watched friends(who have esp) play, and it is crazy how people know exactly where he would be. Lying prone inside the post office behind the desk? people sater at him through the back wall.
Coming over the top of a hill 300m away? odd that the guy fighting zombies in the town instantly run from the zombies and find a hiding spot.
watching people play ring around the rosie with buildings, pillars, trees, everything.

Im sure MANY of the banned people were indeed hacking, but I also have no doubt in my mind many were not. They never provide proof, and will tell you that straight up if you ask.

That's not the main point Olaf, What I am trying to acertain is what you have already more or less said. That a person is hung before they have even been tried.

Can you imagine what the world would be like if the judicial system operated in the same manner?

[Ada Wong]

Messaggio originale di GANuclearShadow:

Isn't this discussion pointless at this point

According to http://www.vacbanned.com there are 1,601,551 VAC banned accounts on Steam.
This is gathered by users who have a public profile and at-least displayed being banned while being public so there is actually more than this. Do you think Valve would have the time to review each and every one of these cases? .

My prespective, they do have time to review em, Valve is a big company and one of the Best, Unlike Hammerpoint, they dont even have enough man power to do so, Can't really compare Valve and Hammerpoint, just way off.

With a big company as Valve, i'am sure they have tons of People who are responsible for reviewing players reports.

[iSay]

Valve don't need to review all their banned cases, VAC is designed to catch software that alters the game and it makes damn sure it's not wrong. Which is why when it has got it wrong, it's in masses and not individual cases. It logs these changes so any time a person contacts them claming to be innocent it can be easily reviewed and verfied by support; see BurtonJ's posts.

Hammerpoint, on the other hand, rely on chance that people are cheating from statistics, with zero evidence that the game has been altered in any way. Then relies on their support to decide whether or not that person is -probably- cheating.

[Diogenes]

Messaggio originale di GANuclearShadow:

Messaggio originale di iSay:

Valve don't need to review all their banned cases, VAC is designed to catch software that alters the game and it makes damn sure it's not wrong. Which is why when it has got it wrong, it's in masses and not individual cases. It logs these changes so any time a person contacts them claming to be innocent it can be easily reviewed and verfied by support; see BurtonJ's posts.

Hammerpoint, on the other hand, rely on chance that people are cheating from statistics, with zero evidence that the game has been altered in any way. Then relies on their support to decide whether or not that person is -probably- cheating.

Don't get me wrong I think VAC is the best anti-cheat there is. I'm simply speaking the reality that each case cannot be determined by a employee regardless of the quality of the anti-cheat.
Whether it be Valve, Hammerpoint, or any other developer.

I'm glad court cases aren't handled in the same way to be honest, yet they can find the time to deal with those in most civil countries adequately and on a much larger scale.