Enabling download of non-linux games [EDIT: not installation or support. I do not call into question the "native experience"]

[Al'Bahtaar]

Seriously, that would be great, since some games can be runned through wine, being able to download them directly through the linux client would save large amount of hassle.

[EDIT] Ok, some clarifications. I did not realised it was such a polemic subject. Here is how I see it : that functionnality would obviously NOT be added under the LINUX GAMES category of the Library, but rather in the game properties, right-click in the ALL list.

[Olorin]

It doesn't belong in the client at all, and it defies logic. You can do whatever you want with Wine on your own computer, but this is a client for native binaries and dependencies.

[Tronic]

That would not make any sense. think about what you actually are requesting for.

just install steam under wine. that isent that hard.

[Al'Bahtaar]

Yeah that is just so much smart, simple and sensible to force people to run two instances of this so fast and lightweight client in order to run games they own, and that can be runned !

Just a few work about running steam under wine, with a 64bit linux it has always been a huge mess.

It would be an easy and pragmatic way of improving further the usability of the steam linux client.

[Olorin]

Originalmente postado por Al'Bahtaar:

Yeah that is just so much smart, simple and sensible to force people to run two instances of this extra fast and lightweight client in order to enable them to run games they own !

Because this is the Steam client for Linux based systems, and on Linux based systems we support native games? Oh, when we are at it, why not implement support for Cider, or an emulator for Android and iOS, or even Amiga. And that would just be the start. Let's have one for everything ever conceived.

Just a few work about running steam under wine, with a 64bit linux it has always been a huge mess.

And this is related in what way? If you want to improve Wine, developers and contributors can be reached in #winehq on Freenode, or from the web site.

It would be an easy and pragmatic way of improving further the usability of the steam linux client.

No, this is one of those ideas best suited for filing under "stupid ideas", so we can laugh at them from time to time.

[Al'Bahtaar]

Just chill, dude.

Originalmente postado por Olorin:

Originalmente postado por Al'Bahtaar:

Yeah that is just so much smart, simple and sensible to force people to run two instances of this extra fast and lightweight client in order to enable them to run games they own !

Because this is the Steam client for Linux based systems, and on Linux based systems we support native games? Oh, when we are at it, why not implement support for Cider, or an emulator for Android and iOS, or even Amiga. And that would just be the start. Let's have one for everything ever conceived.

Please note I do not suggest any support, installation, emulation or implementation of anything from the Steam client. I am merely pointing out that, as a Steam and Linux user, like yourself (which does not make any of us parangons of the Clean and Proper Way of Living the Software), I would have great use of accessing the installation files that are provided to other platforms, which could anyway be retrieved through some devious way. Provided there is no DRM or legal reason, it would be just granting access to something already availaible and accounted, for ergonomy's sake.

Originalmente postado por Olorin:

Just a few words about running steam under wine, with a 64bit linux it has always been a huge mess.

And this is related in what way? If you want to improve Wine, developers and contributors can be reached in #winehq on Freenode, or from the web site.

I certainly know how to contact such a community and report significant issues, as I would (and does as often as possible) gladly contribute to any project that alleviates the human burden. But here, I would have to deal with not only wine project, but all the stuff involved in the chain up to the multilib. I do not think it is worth it to waste the time of all these dedicated and competent people, onto some petty issue that could be addressed in a much saner way.

Most significantly, I prefer, as you do (but in a less honest way), native linux software, that is the reason I prefer Linux Steam client than using the windows one through wine.

Originalmente postado por Olorin:

It would be an easy and pragmatic way of improving further the usability of the steam linux client.

No, this is one of those ideas best suited for filing under "stupid ideas", so we can laugh at them from time to time.

And that was just rude.

[SXX]

Originalmente postado por Al'Bahtaar:

Seriously, that would be great, since some games can be runned through wine, being able to download them directly through the linux client would save large amount of hassle.

https://twitter.com/joedaviso/status/195225127745617920
@ID_AA_Carmack So when are we getting Linux binaries for Rage?
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/195249588557451264
@joedaviso I heard it ran fine under Wine. No plans for a native linux client.

And this is the only guy who release source code of expensive AAA engines as open source, under GPL.
Do you need any other explanation why you're idea is bad?

[SXX]

And just my personal opinion:
I don't want to pay for any bunch of Wine-packages in Linux Steam.
Because I already had to run games in Wine with tons of problems, without proper tech-support and guarantee.
There is no way to make Linux-gaming with wine because it's have tons of patent-related problems, Valve could get sued for if they try to distribute any wine binaries, as well as developer.

[Al'Bahtaar]

Originalmente postado por ShX:

Originalmente postado por Al'Bahtaar:

Seriously, that would be great, since some games can be runned through wine, being able to download them directly through the linux client would save large amount of hassle.

https://twitter.com/joedaviso/status/195225127745617920
@ID_AA_Carmack So when are we getting Linux binaries for Rage?
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/195249588557451264
@joedaviso I heard it ran fine under Wine. No plans for a native linux client.

And this is the only guy who release source code of expensive AAA engines as open source, under GPL.
Do you need any other explanation why you're idea is bad?

You guys are raging because Carmack is not dedicating financial resources to adapt a huge code, depending on numerous proprietary technologies not exploitable on GNU/Linux, for a handful of nerds ?
Then, you would rather keep a bad usability to force businessman to consider financing a proper linux port ? You guys are serious ?

I do think that the key here is the volume of gamer that would cross the kernel Rubicon. More people on our side (we are on the same, remember?) will bring more native binaries for linux developped, better graphic drivers, and so on. Wine is not gonna hamper Linux development on the long term, as it could contribute to GNU/Linux adoption from moderately nerdy gamers on the short term, and that is what we need now the most.

[Al'Bahtaar]

Originalmente postado por ShX:

And just my personal opinion:
I don't want to pay for any bunch of Wine-packages in Linux Steam.
Because I already had to run games in Wine with tons of problems, without proper tech-support and guarantee.
There is no way to make Linux-gaming with wine because it's have tons of patent-related problems, Valve could get sued for if they try to distribute any wine binaries, as well as developer.

You are misinterpreting what I said. There is no need for steam to distribute anything more they are already distributing.
And I do not think neither that Wine gaming is a solution. But occasionnaly, it can turn out to be a temporary relief.

If I remember well, it was Trine, in the Humble Bundle, that has a so-called linux version which was a dirty wine hack : that pissed me off.

[SXX]

Originalmente postado por Al'Bahtaar:

You guys are raging because Carmack is not dedicating financial resources to adapt a huge code, depending on numerous proprietary technologies not exploitable on GNU/Linux, for a handful of nerds ?

id Software engines never use any proprietary technologies because they all going to be open source, it's Carmack's decision.

It's not cost anything to port their games to Linux.
Years before 100% porting was done by only one id employee in his free time.

Originalmente postado por Al'Bahtaar:

Then, you would rather keep a bad usability to force businessman to consider financing a proper linux port ? You guys are serious ?

Yes. Because it's only way to support platform. Wine-packed windows binaries it's not platform support at all.
It's just only waste of resources because wine never will be even 90% windows-compatible.

If you like wine so much, why do you need native client? Steam inside wine give you 99% of games and performance isn't worse.

[Olorin]

I and other people oppose it strongly for several important reasons. Horrible workarounds done with Wine are around. This is of course the reason for us not wanting to send out signals about Wine being a real solution, because it's not. When you write "depending on numerous proprietary technologies not exploitable on GNU/Linux" you fail to understand how Wine works. It's really just converting Windows calls to native calls, but this comes with a penalty involving performance loss. The cite can actually be considered to be a lie. You mention "a handful of nerds", but fails to see where the market is moving. Wine promotes "bad usability", which you also fail to see. I could rather ask you whether you are serious or not. We can't provide half finished solutions like Wine to people, they won't accept it. Wine will hamper native ports as people like you promote it so strongly. Let the Wine people follow their path, but don't mix it up with ours or Valve's. If you do need access to the Windows version of Steam without installing Microsoft Windows, use PlayOnLinux or similar interfaces.

[Tronic]

Originalmente postado por Al'Bahtaar:

Yeah that is just so much smart, simple and sensible to force people to run two instances of this so fast and lightweight client in order to run games they own, and that can be runned !

Just a few work about running steam under wine, with a 64bit linux it has always been a huge mess.

It would be an easy and pragmatic way of improving further the usability of the steam linux client.

if you have any problems with the 64 bit version of wine. then just type these commands in your terminal, and you will get a 32 wine prefix http://www.waydotnet.com/blog/2010/10/winetricks-gentoo-64-bit-wineprefix/

So dont complain about steam. valve are doing a great job right now.

[matt]

I advice you to learn how to use Search option, since there are like thousands of this pointless nonlinuxgamesdownload/WINEimplementation/otherstupididea threads.

Btw

Originalmente postado por Al'Bahtaar:

If I remember well, it was Trine, in the Humble Bundle, that has a so-called linux version which was a dirty wine hack : that pissed me off.

It was Limbo, not Trine.

[johndrinkwater]

Trine & Trine 2 are *very* good ports.
Back on topic, there have been numerous requests already for this, easily findable with a search, do we need more threads about it?

[Al'Bahtaar]

Once again, I do not advocate for any Wine workaround provided through Steam, or encouragement to use it, neither do I ask for support on its 64bit version support in Steam forum.

For the sake of usability and ideology, I would like to use Wine less often and for less things. To make Linux a usable and attractive gaming platform (and that is with the max of popular games), we can not dismiss wine yet for running games, but that would be an improvement to dismiss the need of it to download them.

Originalmente postado por Olorin:

I and other people oppose it strongly for several important reasons. As you mentioned, Trine had a horrible workaround, but that was later replaced with a native port. This is of course the reason for us not wanting to send out signals about Wine being a real solution, because it's not.

And you guys really need to get over yourself : sending signals !? The only thing that is up to us at this point, is helping gamer friends trying to move on Linux, showing it is not so hard and that they can play a good number of games, in order not to repel themselves with some "Wait for the native port".
Encouraging native ports is Gabe's lot, because it is a money game at the time being. Carmack could have helped as well, it is a shame he does not, so much for your open-source hero...

Originalmente postado por Olorin:

When you write "depending on numerous proprietary technologies not exploitable on GNU/Linux" you fail to understand how Wine works. It's really just converting Windows calls to native calls, but this comes with a penalty involving performance loss. The cite can actually be considered to be a lie.

I certainly could have been unclear there, but not dishonest or lying. DirectX is certainly not fully exploitable. I regret as well the performance hit, and look forward the time Wine will not be necessary anymore. OpenGL, I miss you.

Originalmente postado por Olorin:

You mention "a handful of nerds", but fails to see where the market is moving.

You fail to see my point there, and I certainly do see the gaming world evolving in the right direction, and we owe the HiB guys a lot there.

Originalmente postado por Olorin:

Wine promotes "bad usability", which you also fail to see. I could rather ask you whether you are serious or not. We can't provide half finished solutions like Wine to people, they won't accept it. Wine will hamper native ports as people like you promote it so strongly. Let the Wine people follow their path, but don't mix it up with ours or Valve's. If you do need access to the Windows version of Steam without installing Microsoft Windows, use PlayOnLinux or similar interfaces.

We obviously disagree on the extent of the role Valve has to get to be successfull there. As mentionned before, IMHO it would need all means necessary to get up linux adoption. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)#Wine_vs._native_Unix_applications