Steam Proton "Only for AMD users", Nvidia users are discriminated

[Yazloz]

If you have got an Nvidia GPU, you need to know that the new versions of Steam Proton "are only available for AMD GPUs".

I want to know what we need to expect. Do we need to wait a new Nvidia Driver to solve this situation, or we need a new Steam Proton version to support Nvidia GPUs?

Trying to play Cyberpunk, Flight Simulator or Red Dead Redemption 2 is frustrating. You will have a crash every 20 minutes or less.

Nvidia players will leave Linux if Steam Proton doesn't work on Nvidia GPUs.

My last Steam Proton version that works is 5.0.10, that was released a lot of months ago.

[x_wing]

AFAIK, the problems are related to Nvidia drivers and some missing features. AMD probably works better because Valve devs can develop the required fix at driver level.

So, It's not that Nvidia gets discriminated by proton devs, it's just that getting the fixes depends of Nvidia devs.

[Yazloz]

Originally posted by x_wing:

AFAIK, the problems are related to Nvidia drivers and some missing features. AMD probably works better because Valve devs can develop the required fix at driver level.

So, It's not that Nvidia gets discriminated by proton devs, it's just that getting the fixes depends of Nvidia devs.

I am waiting a lot of weeks for a solution, and Nvidia has lauched the last Nvidia 460.32.03 a few days ago.

The problem still exists.

[Zugastach]

♥♥♥♥ u Nvidia (linus Torvalds)

[Yazloz]

Originally posted by Cheshire:

♥♥♥♥ u Nvidia (linus Torvalds)

xD, I am thinking of buying a new AMD RX 6800 XT and sell my GTX 1080 Ti.

[ripper81]

There are many cases where Nvidiausers have a clear advantage when it comes to gameperformance and graphical bugs in linuxgames both native and nonnative titles. The thing is that Valve can access the sourcecode of the MESA Drivers as they are developed under opensource. So they can fix problems with Proton or the driver itself. Nividiadrivers are
proprietary so nearly every fix needs to be adressed by Nvidia.

[Yazloz]

Originally posted by ripper81:

There are many cases where Nvidiausers have a clear advantage when it comes to gameperformance and graphical bugs in linuxgames both native and nonnative titles. The thing is that Valve can access the sourcecode of the MESA Drivers as they are developed under opensource. So they can fix problems with Proton or the driver itself. Nividiadrivers are
proprietary so nearly every fix needs to be adressed by Nvidia.

Ok, thanks for the info. In that case, Nvidia is leaving their Linux users for the last.

"There are many cases where Nvidiausers have a clear advantage"
What cases, DLSS ? Stability ?

Have AMD GPUs got a lot of problems wiith MESA Drivers?

I haven't got an AMD GPU, I want to know if AMD GPU works better on LInux or if it has got a lot of stability problems and crashes.

Have you got and AMD GPU?

[AbedsBrother]

Originally posted by Yazloz:

"There are many cases where Nvidiausers have a clear advantage"
What cases, DLSS ? Stability ?

Depends on the game. An Nvidia gpu frequently has an fps advantage in Linux, even if the Radeon card is even with the Nvidia gpu in Windows. The margin isn't usually large fwiw.

Originally posted by Yazloz:

Have AMD GPUs got a lot of problems wiith MESA Drivers?

Mesa drivers work great for me (Manjaro KDE)

Originally posted by Yazloz:

I haven't got an AMD GPU, I want to know if AMD GPU works better on LInux or if it has got a lot of stability problems and crashes.

I have a 5700XT. Performance is generally rock-solid. The main problem with Radeon on Linux is the lack of any decent GUI-based over-clocking / undervolting software. (If you don't mind using the console / terminal to overclock, then it's fine.)

[Hex: Devour Ass]

Please just search the internet at least once before creating unnecessary threads that decrease the quality of this forum.

At the moment AMD users are just benefiting in many instances (Wayland, Proton, ...) because of the GPU driver code is actually open source in the kernel and thus development is way easier with their hardware.

NVIDIA does only provide proprietary closed source drivers (there are open source ones but they are mostly slower and have less features because they are not directly made by NVIDIA themselves) so you need to learn to wait until NVIDIA is implementing the features that the developers made and fixes bugs/optimizes their code.

NVIDIA users are in now way discriminated by Linux/Proton developers - it is more so that NVIDIA users on Linux are discriminated by NVIDIA themselves.
The only solution if you really feel this way is to either to install Windows or switch to AMD at this moment.

[ripper81]

Originally posted by Yazloz:

Originally posted by ripper81:

There are many cases where Nvidiausers have a clear advantage when it comes to gameperformance and graphical bugs in linuxgames both native and nonnative titles. The thing is that Valve can access the sourcecode of the MESA Drivers as they are developed under opensource. So they can fix problems with Proton or the driver itself. Nividiadrivers are
proprietary so nearly every fix needs to be adressed by Nvidia.

Ok, thanks for the info. In that case, Nvidia is leaving their Linux users for the last.

"There are many cases where Nvidiausers have a clear advantage"
What cases, DLSS ? Stability ?

Have AMD GPUs got a lot of problems wiith MESA Drivers?

I haven't got an AMD GPU, I want to know if AMD GPU works better on LInux or if it has got a lot of stability problems and crashes.

Have you got and AMD GPU?

I was a longterm Nvidiauser. However i have switched to AMD because i needed a fast replacement for a defective Nvidia GPU. The first Card i got back then was a RX 590. Right now i am using an RX 5700 Card.

However i will give you some pros and cons regarding AMD GPU'S and the opensource driver (AMDGPU + MESA).

Pros:

1. Easy drivermanagement regarding driverupdates and installation.

2. Opensource Development.

3. Better out of the box experience on linux.

4. In some cases (like Proton and Wayland) early adoption of features and bugfixes.

Cons:

1. Depending on the Releasecycle of your distribution it can take a long time until newer GPU'S even get baseline support on linux.

2. Very limited support for GPU based videoencoding. Nothing that compares to NVENC.

3. No GPU Computing support (OpenCL) with the opensource driver. CUDA is only available on Nvidia anyway.

4. No GUI for configuration. Features like Freesync must be turned on by manually editing configfiles.

5. Buggy behaviour with some games especially native titles that leave the games either completely broken or graphical glitched.

[Yazloz]

Originally posted by catbox:

which version of proton is for AMD only?
proton 5.13 works fine even with older drivers (440.x)
the current stable driver is 450.x,
455.x adds 3xxx series cards, and 460.x adds other fixes and features but it is a Beta driver.
so if youre not using 450.x (or have a 3xxx card) then you dont speak for the majority of nvidia linux gamers.

what FEATURE is being left out for nvidia drivers/cards?
you need to explain a bit more why Proton is not good for Nvidia

infact if you go to the nvidia website and compare the updates and features
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/unix/linux-amd64-display-archive/
you might have a bit more information to make a real claim that nvidia + proton crashes games or/not


the other problem is that proton 5.13 + steam runtime solider (beta) is having a LOT of problems running AT ALL. which is not the fault of PROTON or nvidia

"proton 5.13 works fine"
If works fine means crashing every 20 minutes, low fps and some graphical glitches, yes, it works fine.

"why Proton is not good for Nvidia?"
Try to use 5.13 with Nvidia 460.32.3 drivers on Cyberpunk and you will undestand why Proton is not for Nvidia users.

I understand that is not a Valve problem, the problem is on Nvidia, but the reality is that Proton doesn't work well with Nvidia GPUs on their last Proton versions.

I played well with 5.0.10 Proton Version, but with 5.13 I feel marginated, the problems increase and after wait 2 months, the situation is the same.

What do you want me to say? Do you want me to say that Proton works fine? Ok, but I don't think that this is the reality.

Thanks to Valve for Steam Proton and the effort to maintein the gaming on Linux, I really apreciate that, but it's frustrating to play a game with the last versión of Proton if you are a Nvidia user.

[Yazloz]

Originally posted by AbedsBrother:

Originally posted by Yazloz:

"There are many cases where Nvidiausers have a clear advantage"
What cases, DLSS ? Stability ?

Depends on the game. An Nvidia gpu frequently has an fps advantage in Linux, even if the Radeon card is even with the Nvidia gpu in Windows. The margin isn't usually large fwiw.

Originally posted by Yazloz:

Have AMD GPUs got a lot of problems wiith MESA Drivers?

Mesa drivers work great for me (Manjaro KDE)

Originally posted by Yazloz:

I haven't got an AMD GPU, I want to know if AMD GPU works better on LInux or if it has got a lot of stability problems and crashes.

I have a 5700XT. Performance is generally rock-solid. The main problem with Radeon on Linux is the lack of any decent GUI-based over-clocking / undervolting software. (If you don't mind using the console / terminal to overclock, then it's fine.)

Originally posted by ripper81:

Originally posted by Yazloz:

Ok, thanks for the info. In that case, Nvidia is leaving their Linux users for the last.

"There are many cases where Nvidiausers have a clear advantage"
What cases, DLSS ? Stability ?

Have AMD GPUs got a lot of problems wiith MESA Drivers?

I haven't got an AMD GPU, I want to know if AMD GPU works better on LInux or if it has got a lot of stability problems and crashes.

Have you got and AMD GPU?

I was a longterm Nvidiauser. However i have switched to AMD because i needed a fast replacement for a defective Nvidia GPU. The first Card i got back then was a RX 590. Right now i am using an RX 5700 Card.

However i will give you some pros and cons regarding AMD GPU'S and the opensource driver (AMDGPU + MESA).

Pros:

1. Easy drivermanagement regarding driverupdates and installation.

2. Opensource Development.

3. Better out of the box experience on linux.

4. In some cases (like Proton and Wayland) early adoption of features and bugfixes.

Cons:

1. Depending on the Releasecycle of your distribution it can take a long time until newer GPU'S even get baseline support on linux.

2. Very limited support for GPU based videoencoding. Nothing that compares to NVENC.

3. No GPU Computing support (OpenCL) with the opensource driver. CUDA is only available on Nvidia anyway.

4. No GUI for configuration. Features like Freesync must be turned on by manually editing configfiles.

5. Buggy behaviour with some games especially native titles that leave the games either completely broken or graphical glitched.

Thank you very much for the info to both.

[Yazloz]

Originally posted by NiklasAnonym:

Please just search the internet at least once before creating unnecessary threads that decrease the quality of this forum.

At the moment AMD users are just benefiting in many instances (Wayland, Proton, ...) because of the GPU driver code is actually open source in the kernel and thus development is way easier with their hardware.

NVIDIA does only provide proprietary closed source drivers (there are open source ones but they are mostly slower and have less features because they are not directly made by NVIDIA themselves) so you need to learn to wait until NVIDIA is implementing the features that the developers made and fixes bugs/optimizes their code.

NVIDIA users are in now way discriminated by Linux/Proton developers - it is more so that NVIDIA users on Linux are discriminated by NVIDIA themselves.
The only solution if you really feel this way is to either to install Windows or switch to AMD at this moment.

I don't think that exposing the opinion of an user is something unnecessary if it serves for changing this situation by the hand of Nvidia or Valve.

[x_wing]

Originally posted by Yazloz:

"why Proton is not good for Nvidia?"
Try to use 5.13 with Nvidia 460.32.3 drivers on Cyberpunk and you will undestand why Proton is not for Nvidia users.

I understand that is not a Valve problem, the problem is on Nvidia, but the reality is that Proton doesn't work well with Nvidia GPUs on their last Proton versions.

I played well with 5.0.10 Proton Version, but with 5.13 I feel marginated, the problems increase and after wait 2 months, the situation is the same.

What do you want me to say? Do you want me to say that Proton works fine? Ok, but I don't think that this is the reality.

If you understand the one that is in fault is Nvidia, then you will agree that this topic title is completely misleading. So, I suggest you to go in to Nvidia forums and search for a thread where you can ask them to add support for the required features that Proton needs (you can get the details of the missing feature here: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2020/12/cyberpunk-2077-working-on-linux-for-amd-gpus-proton)

Believe me, the problem you're facing is from a margination issue. Margination is when a dev only test their games with one GPU brand and then you the others GPU brand users have to wait for a workaround at driver level because the tested driver doesn't follow the specification of the graphic API (yeah, that's normally the problem that Mesa users have with native games only tested with Nvidia).

[Chorriwuarri]

the problem is steam runtime, dx12 and nvidia

you can check the steam runtime soldier github and you will understand the amount of problems that occur with it, for example if you have two gpu like intel + nvidia and also you have vulkan installed on both gpu, steam runtime is unable to choose the second gpu and will always start the game with intel, the temporary solution they give is to delete vulkan on intel side, but I think you could also give an easy way to disable steam runtime which is a big creator of problems, my games work perfect without runtime

another problem is the dx12 translation, it is ineffective with nvidia gpus lower than turing and according to what i read in github they are not going to fix it for those gpu because there is no communication with nvidia and it is too expensive for being obsolete graphics.

so the third big problem is nvidia and their lack of communication and interest in the community.

[Yazloz]

Originally posted by Deivi:

the problem is steam runtime, dx12 and nvidia

you can check the steam runtime soldier github and you will understand the amount of problems that occur with it, for example if you have two gpu like intel + nvidia and also you have vulkan installed on both gpu, steam runtime is unable to choose the second gpu and will always start the game with intel, the temporary solution they give is to delete vulkan on intel side, but I think you could also give an easy way to disable steam runtime which is a big creator of problems, my games work perfect without runtime

another problem is the dx12 translation, it is ineffective with nvidia gpus lower than turing and according to what i read in github they are not going to fix it for those gpu because there is no communication with nvidia and it is too expensive for being obsolete graphics.

so the third big problem is nvidia and their lack of communication and interest in the community.

Thanks for the info.