Age of Empires II: HD Edition

Age of Empires II: HD Edition

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Mars Jun 24, 2014 @ 11:36am
AI feedback
Feel free to list changes you want made to the new AI. If we as a community can make it easier on the devs to see what changes we want done.

List anything from Nerfs made on the lower difficulty to buffs needed for the Hardest difficulty.

Edit by Promiskuitiv: Edited the title, I will monitor this thread so feel free to leave your feedback about the new AI ("Computer") here! :)
Last edited by Mars; Jun 24, 2014 @ 6:40pm
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Showing 1-15 of 467 comments
Sir Jasper Trund Jun 24, 2014 @ 11:47am 
Here's a suggestion for the A.I - a small and insiginificant one for most people but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Some of the A.Is from the older FE mod would send comments to enemy human players at points in the game, essentially to be discouraging. AoM does the same thing, insulting players at random points. If you play online against A.I with friends a lot, this sort of thing really adds to the feel of the game. Things such as -

'If you seriously expect to win, you might want to arm those peasants of yours'

The devs could even have a bit of fun with it - set up a thread where people can suggest comments and they could pick the best/funniest :)

I'm aware this isn't nerfing or buffing but I'm sure many users will have helpful things to say on that!
Last edited by Sir Jasper Trund; Jun 24, 2014 @ 11:50am
Djuntas Jun 24, 2014 @ 12:38pm 
Good thread. Below is my POV on hardest

The AI is WAY TO predictable still. From the games Ive played againts AI on Arena, Arabia and Island I begin see the same patterns: When he attacks (On arabia thats about 18-20 minute mark, and his big attack happens 33-39 minute mark, abit uneven).

The AI can still be "♥♥♥♥ed around with" using lame tactics such as castle on the front, and trying to make a funnel, fuss the good old walling yourself then focus on getting 2-3 castle up is still effective. The AI are dumb enough to put archers etc to the castle.

ONE THING! I will say is that its nice that the AI useally moves from the Town center. The old AI when he did his first attack early feudal age I would always just take 1-2 villager and sacrifice, having the AI attack getting lured - But as soon as I go inside the TC now, the new AI steps away right away.

AI on water has been SIGNIFICANTLY improved. Sadly...Thats only if you ain't used to play on water. Twice I have won againts AI on water without trying hard. Basicly, you loss againts the AI if you don't take over water before 22-24 minute mark.

His castle time even if you attack him early on seems very fast (18 minutes), and when he hits castle age while you are busy spamming you're flismy galleys he suddenly masses fireships from new dock's he plants fast, so it aint easy to completely lock him down on water. BUT! If you manage to semi-lock him down with few docks killed, and get a castle time at around 20 minute mark, then just prepare to go full water - Then the AI won't even try to land on your isle (Witch the old AI did ? Wierd) cause he just seems totaly overwhelmed by you're ships.

TLDR; Arabia is perfect right now. Very good. Just needs some smarter stuff, to remove lame tactics. I can easly loss right now on Arabia (Actually glad when I win, cause the matches seems to be so long for me...Around 1:10 o.o)

Water is...meh. Booring. Last game I did on island 1v1 vs AI I won with like a 12 to 5k score or something...But you can easly loss vs AI on water if you aint fast with castle age yourself.

Arena (My favourite map) are to easy 1v1 AI. Basicly, its no challenge - Was kinda the same with the old AI. Just boom inside then hit imperial age and win by spamming more units than him.

Edit: Oh nice, stickied. If you want more input I will gladly continue on :) I mostly play 1v1 Arena/Arabia/Island.
Last edited by Djuntas; Jun 24, 2014 @ 12:43pm
StepS Jun 24, 2014 @ 1:20pm 
Related to walls: I believe this might be due to the wall targeting sn temporarily disabled for 3.6a hotfix (it caused sync issues). It should be back in a future patch, though.
Promiskuitiv Jun 24, 2014 @ 1:29pm 
Awesome feedback (i will keep it all in mind)!
And yes the AI will usually only try to land on your island when it has water-control or is pretty much at its population-cap. The AI really wants to avoid that you destroy a full transport ship on the open sea.

And what Steps said is correct, so when that's back the AI will behave a tiny bit better vs walls.

"If you want more input I will gladly continue on"
- Feedback is always greatly appreciated, so if anyone still has some feedback (preferably some that hasn't been mentioned before to keep this thread clean) then keep it coming! :)
Nightwolf Jun 24, 2014 @ 1:29pm 
Its possible to the AI to turn different behaviour. Like for example, one game he tried to do a scout rush, then maybe, boom, and so on? Or crazy attacks like full monks, etc? :)
Last edited by Nightwolf; Jun 24, 2014 @ 1:30pm
Promiskuitiv Jun 24, 2014 @ 1:35pm 
@Nightwolf: Yes the AI does already have several different strategy and also a mush (monk rush) which you mentioned is included. But this has a smaller chance to trigger than other strategies.

@SirJasperTrund: I will keep this in mind, for now we are concentrating on more pressing issues though. If we were to add such chats we would need to translate them into every language and implement it as usable "ID-chat" into the game first.
Against A.I. players I often build palisades around relics because the A.I. massively cheats and usually gets to them before I can. When the relics are walled in, they make no effort to bust down the walls to capture the relics. Is this something we can expect to see changed?

I don't really know if I'm for or against it. It's sort of an exploit, but screw the computer players.
Last edited by Tired_David -; Jun 24, 2014 @ 1:49pm
Sir Jasper Trund Jun 24, 2014 @ 2:47pm 
Just played a game with a friend against the Easiest AI to test how difficult it is. It attacked once near the start of the game, in a feeble sort of a way. It then didn't attack again for the enite game, except to repel an attack, despite having a fairly large army (according to the end-of-game stats). Is this intentional...? We were playing The Forgotten, on Black Forest. AI was Italians (chosen via Random). Thanks.
Loggy Jun 24, 2014 @ 2:56pm 
Originally posted by Tired_David:
When the relics are walled in, they make no effort to bust down the walls to capture the relics. Is this something we can expect to see changed?

That's not something that AI scripters can avoid without more functionality added by UserPatch (which would be added to the HD version by whoever works on the engine nowadays). All scripters do to make monks take relics is to create monks and have them idle - the engine tasks them on relicpicking automatically. Similarly they love trying to overstuff monasteries with relics, and once more that's an engine thing.

Anyway, as Promi's mentioned on a number of other threads, the new default AI doesn't cheat at all.
Promiskuitiv Jun 24, 2014 @ 3:02pm 
because the A.I. massively cheats

It doesn't cheat.

Also read Loggy's post for the answer on the walled-relic issue.

Just played a game with a friend against the Easiest AI to test how difficult it is. It attacked once near the start of the game, in a feeble sort of a way. It then didn't attack again for the enite game, except to repel an attack, despite having a fairly large army (according to the end-of-game stats). Is this intentional...?

It probably still didn't feel like it would win a fight, the AI will 100% attack at some point though (when it's pop-capped and has all the upgrades it wants).
Is there any way that the old Conquerors AI could be set as the default? Allow players the option to use the new AI...just don't have it as the default going in.
brandontrek1 Jun 24, 2014 @ 6:34pm 
Originally posted by Tired_David:
Is there any way that the old Conquerors AI could be set as the default? Allow players the option to use the new AI...just don't have it as the default going in.

i feel that this should be an option, whatever changes were made to the new AI i can't stand it. I am an average to fair player, but getting bum rushed by 30 ships when i barely have enough resources to make 10 ships doens't seem right. since the changes were made i haven't played a game with AI that i have actually enjoyed.
Mars Jun 24, 2014 @ 6:35pm 
So these are mostly for Arabia, haven't looked at its performance on any other map yet. Does it play on custom random maps like Land nomad and michi? Will it cut wood with SO's in michi?

1. Its up-time / BO - I've noticed that its fastest Feudal has been around ~13 min as huns. This gives me about two minutes for my 21 pop scrush to get a) get stable and scouts built and b)plenty of free time to raid

2) It continues to send vills back to resource camps as long as my men don't attack them on the trip there allowing me get easy picks there as well.

3) While co-op / specting one of them I notice its boar lures / sheep are generally a walk or longer from tc. Highly inefficient and probably part of the reason for its late up-times.

4) If the comp is going to FC it would be nice if it would drush so as to simulate a real players FC better because without it it becomes to easy to pressure him.

5) If I recall you said there were problems scripting the AI to wall ... if that is not the case then if it could do wall-offs in certain areas to protect resources that would be nice.

6) The AI will build lumber-camps for stragglers when it should build them in more efficient places i.e. a forest.

7) Its FC should be followed by immediate knight pressure (depending on the civ) or x-bow pressure.

I'll try out some other maps like islands and see what about that later. But these is all I have at the moment, will add more should I come across it.

*edit This is for hardest AI setting. (and some grammatical errors are fixed)
Last edited by Mars; Jun 24, 2014 @ 7:08pm
Promiskuitiv Jun 24, 2014 @ 7:24pm 
1) Yes, i'd also like the AI to go up earlier. The only thing directly affecting this which i am working on at the moment is making boar hunting more consistent though - at the moment it's not unusual for the AI to lose a boar lurer and i'm working on minimizing the chances of that happening. But even if it would work out as well as i hope it will be then this will only eradicate some worst-case scenarios (and not improve the best-case scenarios). Though i still have this whole issue in mind (which doesn't necessarily mean that i'll be able to do something about it (since 1) some other AI issues are more important and 2) i'd have to try achieving faster feudal times without being able to lure deer to the TC which humans can do (etc)).

2) Sadly it's not possible to do anything about that.

3) I'm still in the process of optimizing boar lures, but i can't alter the sheep placement.

4) With the options available it's impossible to code a drush that doesn't just suicide its militia.

5) Yes, the AI can only wall in a huge square around its own home town-center.

6) That shouldn't happen, though if it happens i also have no way of preventing that from happening. The only thing i can do is increase the radius of where the lumber-camp can be placed, though if it's too high then it may be too close to the enemy.

7) Yeah, sometimes it's not aggressive enough. I'll take a look at that once i'm done with more important issues. Though no promises that i will actually make changes to that, it depends on how well the changes work when testing. If i make the AI attack too early then it may just end up losing its units due to the lack of human micro skills.

Edit: No promises. Some things may not be able to be achieved, so i tell you this now instead of letting you down later.
Last edited by Promiskuitiv; Jun 24, 2014 @ 7:26pm
Firebird Jun 24, 2014 @ 9:44pm 
I've only played a couple of games against the new AI so far so I'm not sure how much help this will be, but I did notice a couple of things. In both games I played (on moderate) the AI seemed rather slow to respond to counters. It kept sending wave after wave of knights and light cav even though my army was made up of literally nothing but camels and pikemen. It did eventually mix things up but it took quite a while.

Also in the second match it seemed prone to suicidal town centre assaults, attacking it first with two scouts and later a couple of groups of four to six. Seemed like a rather silly waste.

Otherwise it looks good so far, definitely more challenging than the original AI. I look forward to playing some more matches against it.
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Date Posted: Jun 24, 2014 @ 11:36am
Posts: 467