Antichamber > General Discussions > Topic Details
cottonrhetoric Jul 13, 2013 @ 10:53am
these aren't really puzzles
A puzzle is something you can look at and think your way through. With VERY few exceptions, the challenges in this game can't be solved by any thinking beyond "try everything and see what randomly works." The game is a nice visual treat but it's way too arbitrary to be considered a puzzle game. Of course, it's designed that way on purpose, and these abstract non-puzzle games have a place in the world, but categorizing it as a puzzle game is a little misleading.
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Wolfx10 Jul 13, 2013 @ 12:33pm 
You have 0.3 hours playtime. try to get to the later game before saying this
Ange1ofD4rkness Jul 13, 2013 @ 12:39pm 
Really? I think my way through them and don't randomly try. I have personally come to realize that certain sets up can be solved certain ways.

Well let me ask you this, would you call Portal a puzzle game?
tombo Jul 13, 2013 @ 1:34pm 
That's completely wrong. Once you understand the game's logic and your abilities within the game, it becomes a magnificent puzzle game. I can see why it would seem confusing and random at first though.
Infensus Jul 13, 2013 @ 2:09pm 
I finished it, it wasn't a clever game. I was really disappointed the entire game is about these stupid block puzzles, and many solutions involve doing stupid stuff like staring at an eye until it blinks (that's not clever and doesn't take any thinking), or jumping around until a door opens.
Ange1ofD4rkness Jul 13, 2013 @ 2:55pm 
LOL sounds like you brute forced it.

Personally I love those like knot window things that when you look through them, changes the enviroment
Californ1a Jul 13, 2013 @ 6:15pm 
It's not a game about solving puzzles. It's a psychological exploration puzzle game. It does includepuzzles, but it's mostly about exploring the map and trying to figure out/learn the newly gained mchanics with each gun.
Ange1ofD4rkness Jul 13, 2013 @ 7:00pm 
Multiple guns? LOL I have been having a fun time before I even got the 1st gun, and now I read there are more that offer different abilities?
Last edited by Ange1ofD4rkness; Jul 13, 2013 @ 7:00pm
lgiu Jul 13, 2013 @ 8:33pm 
have youtried it more than 10 seconds before saying this?
cottonrhetoric Jul 14, 2013 @ 4:26am 
No I haven't played the whole game, yes I've played it for a while. Most of the obstacles were solved by saying "what if I jump through it?" or "what if I walk through it?" or "what if I walk backwards through it?" or "what if I walk slowly through it?" or "what if I walk through the left side of it?" or "what if I retrace my steps and hope that things are different this time?" And then when that one doesn't work, try the others.

It's all arbitrary. It's not logical. Therefore it's not a puzzle game.

It's a visual treat, sure, and I can see why some people like it. I agree with Californ1a saying it's about psychological exploration.

To Ange1ofD4rkness, yes, Portal is a fantastic example of a true puzzle game, and imo one of the best in the genre.
BlueCrayon Jul 14, 2013 @ 4:39am 
^ ... Thats essentially the tutorial areas.

That's like saying a FPS sucks because the first 2 missions were too slow paced.
Cego em Tiroteio Jul 14, 2013 @ 4:55am 
I was sceptical as yourself. But after playing it for a while, I realised that that what we could point as "arbitrary" is a needed cognitive step, as learning a language before you can enjoy a book. Or maybe more like smelling coffee to wash out dulled senses as we've been playing so many games that conditioned us to ignore a lot of what we see (art assets are often just eye candy for very simple invisible walls that guides us through a linear path).

The jump suggestion that screw us, the changing environment and the seemingly inconsistent rules... these steps were needed to get me off of my confort zone in what we've been undestanging as "game".

I mean, Anti chamber uses graphics and written language and meta language to present you puzzles. It's up to you to perceive and decode. By the way, didn't we all found adorable how, in Portal 2, we were supposed to say "apple" pressing the space bar?

But even before that, the premise that a puzzle game is "something you can look at and think your way through" is subjective and somewhat inadequate. A puzzle is not necessary presented to you as a whole at a time. Take for example chess ending games, you can only see as deep as you've exercized for, and yet you won't see all the possibilities even if you succeed.
Cego em Tiroteio Jul 14, 2013 @ 5:02am 
Originally posted by cottonrhetoric:
It's all arbitrary. It's not logical. Therefore it's not a puzzle game.

This is also a bit fallacious. Anti chambers is "solvable". You are just forgeting that perceiving and decoding communication (aka exploring) is part of the puzzle. Rudimentarly, you must sense, rationalize and act. Perception is not a passive process in our minds.
Grey Acumen Jul 14, 2013 @ 5:22am 
Some of the puzzle aspects, such as the exploration, is arbitrary, but it still promotes the idea of "question everything" it's not a logical puzzle, but a creative form of puzzle. It's also a matter of becoming aware of what ways your perception can be controlled.

Later on, if you are actually paying attention, you will begin to realize that there actually IS a logic. The whole "stare at eye until it blinks" thing is taught to you indirectly during at least 2 different instances, but connecting that together to apply it towards other instances in which you see that eye requires logic.

Learning how to use the blocks, and figuring out the new abilities to the guns takes trial and error. What isn't obvious right away is that the color of the blocks, as well as the color of some of the lighting along each hall will help you determine which gun is needed to solve teh puzzles in that direction.

It's not arbitrary, but the logic is subtle.
iamaspacecow Jul 14, 2013 @ 5:39am 
I agree completely. When you finally realize how to solve one of the perspective puzzles, it's such a rush
Heisenbourg Jul 14, 2013 @ 6:13am 
Originally posted by Wolfx10:
You have 0.3 hours playtime. try to get to the later game before saying this

Pretty much this, the abstract reasoning required by the end of the game can be headache-inducing.

Yes, there are people who will moan about the game as they brute force their way through it in 3x the time, but those of us who like to step back and think will beat the game a whole lot faster.
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Antichamber > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Jul 13, 2013 @ 10:53am
Posts: 90