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PAYDAY 2 > General Discussions > Topic Details
Yastin Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:18pm
Explaining the #SkinKick
It occurs to me that a lot of people do not understand the rationale behind kicking 'Skinners', as they're called. I am going to attempt to explain here, not to support or to condemn, but to inform.

I repeat, I am not advocating or condemning the Skin Kicking crowd in this post, merely explaining so that people can stop asking why, or getting the wrong message and spreading false information.

The tactic here is not unlike a denial of service or DDoS attack. The veteran players are kicking skin users so that they get to play less, and are frustrated by their inability to progress in game. The hope is that through excluding 'Skinners', they make them quit buying skins, as the skins negatively impact their game. A simple, brutal, and effective attack against the buying process.

-Are they targetting 'fun'?

No. They are targetting and excluding the most objectionable and visible sign of change.

-Are they mad because they cannot afford skins?

No. They usually have many DLCs, and many hours of play. They are the ones that monetization could benefit most, in fact, because they will likely get the most safes, playing as much as they do.

-How do I avoid them?

Don't equip a weapon with a skin before joining. Ask about the skins in chat before changing your loadout. They may still kick, even if they didn't say they hate them, but most of them are reasonable enough that they will say their intent up-front, and you may judge whether or not to use your skin.

Just remember. Host-kick is allowed, and servers are peer-to-peer. You are not going to get anyone banned, and you will be sharted upon most mightily if you bring your skin troubles to the forum.

This is... -Mostly- a civil protest, and so they feel they have the right to do what they are doing. And they do, as they're hosting. You won't win by complaining to them, they won't change their minds.

If you want to make their lives harder, it is unfortunately nearly impossible. Players without skins, and players that hate skins outright are impossible to differentiate, so kicking non-skinned sorts will not gain any ground. The best revenge, if you must take any, is to ignore them and continue to play.

EDIT; To further combat ignorance!

Part 2:The reasoning explained further.

-Is it because stats?

Not entirely. Though stats play a part for most of the kickers, it is not the most prominent reason.

-Is it because a two-year-old promise?

Also not entirely, but this is a BIG reason.

-That's stupid, it's two years old!

Promises don't expire. Games do

-Why, then?

Mostly because this was crimefest. Crimefest was always the time Overkill gave back. They gave the community tasks. Big ones. They made 'em hard, and we did 'em for free stuff. We got characters, heists, masks... All available for not a single penny. All for being a unified group.

-Aren't safes free?

Yes. But the drills are -unobtainable- without money or trading. Bartering isn't free, so this 'free' update is not free. That is the point.

These three main things combined have spurred the hate. And sadly, there's nothing to be done for it but to understand the situation and react accordingly. Do not think that this is recruitment. Do not think that this is defense.

But also, remember. Whoever you are, the ones on the other side are people too. If you don't care about the politics, don't try to get involved. Just avoid it all. If you want skins, buy them. If you want to stand up to the MCs, do that. It's not my concern who you are, just be informed either way.
Last edited by Yastin; Oct 17, 2015 @ 12:53am
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Showing 1-15 of 232 comments
vRad.exe Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:19pm 
aham*Racist* aham, aham
Akutare Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:20pm 
Originally posted by Yastin:

The tactic here is not unlike a denial of service or DDoS attack. The veteran players are kicking skin users so that they get to play less, and are frustrated by their inability to progress in game.

And you're expecting to persuade me to believe that this isn't completely toxic?
NightRaven Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:24pm 
Originally posted by Rad:
aham*Racist* aham, aham

Those who supports shady business practices are the reason why company continue to do♥♥♥♥♥♥like this. Because they know those people would suck up to anything. So nothing wrong with this simple actions to get rid of such people.
Starbreeze_Stockholder (Banned) Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:25pm 
#skinkick
Yastin Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:32pm 
Originally posted by Akutare:
Originally posted by Yastin:

The tactic here is not unlike a denial of service or DDoS attack. The veteran players are kicking skin users so that they get to play less, and are frustrated by their inability to progress in game.

And you're expecting to persuade me to believe that this isn't completely toxic?

Did I say it wasn't? I did not, I compaired it to a commonly loathed method of trolling major corporations.

I did however, state how to somewhat easily circumvent your troubles.

It is not within your ability to stop this behavior, however. You will not get overkill to ban people for kicking skinners, it's too easy to fake. You will not be able to use your skin sometimes, if you want to avoid this problem, and no amount of counter-complaining can make it any different. They are doing all that they can for a cause they believe in, even if they're doing it in a 'bad' way. You don't have to agree. You don't have to like them, but there is no easy way to stop them, there is no implementation short of removing host-kick that will work, as I see it, and the community will truly turn virulent if -that- is done.

TL;DR: Do what is in your power to avoid the issue, there isn't anything that anyone else can do to help you. Only what you can do to help yourself.
Akutare Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:38pm 
Originally posted by Yastin:

Did I say it wasn't? I did not, I compaired it to a commonly loathed method of trolling major corporations.

I did however, state how to somewhat easily circumvent your troubles.

It is not within your ability to stop this behavior, however. You will not get overkill to ban people for kicking skinners, it's too easy to fake. You will not be able to use your skin sometimes, if you want to avoid this problem, and no amount of counter-complaining can make it any different. They are doing all that they can for a cause they believe in, even if they're doing it in a 'bad' way. You don't have to agree. You don't have to like them, but there is no easy way to stop them, there is no implementation short of removing host-kick that will work, as I see it, and the community will truly turn virulent if -that- is done.

TL;DR: Do what is in your power to avoid the issue, there isn't anything that anyone else can do to help you. Only what you can do to help yourself.

This is just self destructive, but you can keep believing that it actually has purpose.

Kicking people just because they had a skin and even telling them that it was just because of that isn't going to make them have a sudden change of heart over what they already paid for, it's like the equivalent of the people that were kicking Jiro players.

People already get told all the time to host their own games, and they will, but will just likely be more prone to kick people that don't have skins as retaliation for what happened to them.

Stat boosts on skins need to go, but picking on people that wanted a skin on their favorite weapon without a boost is a bit ludicrous.
Last edited by Akutare; Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:39pm
drewbstar Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:39pm 
Remember that time we had the sticky about "HYOG" and what not to do?
I remember.
never forgetti
Yastin Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:43pm 
Originally posted by Akutare:

This is just self destructive, but you can keep believing that it actually has purpose.

Kicking people just because they had a skin and even telling them that it was just because of that isn't going to make them have a sudden change of heart over what they already paid for, it's like the equivalent of the people that were kicking Jiro players.

People already get told all the time to host their own games, and they will, but will just likely be more prone to kick people that don't have skins as retaliation for what happened to them.

Jesus Christ, Kid, read the first bit again. I'm not using this thread to say yay or nay to the idea. I'm not pushing it. Im explaining the reasoning so people stop saying it's one way or another.

These players want other players to feel bad for buying into the skins.

The skin is the pellet, these guys are the electrodes, and you're the hamster.

That is the jist of it.

Is shock therapy going to work? That's to be seen, but there's the thing, you don't have to show anyone y'grabbed the damn pellet, so don't, until you know there's no shock coming.

Be smarter than a hamster.
MGeez Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:45pm 
No it is standing against a bad mechanic and punishing the those who blindly accept it.
Akutare Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:52pm 
Originally posted by Yastin:

Jesus Christ, Kid, read the first bit again. I'm not using this thread to say yay or nay to the idea. I'm not pushing it. Im explaining the reasoning so people stop saying it's one way or another.

These players want other players to feel bad for buying into the skins.

The skin is the pellet, these guys are the electrodes, and you're the hamster.

That is the jist of it.

Is shock therapy going to work? That's to be seen, but there's the thing, you don't have to show anyone y'grabbed the damn pellet, so don't, until you know there's no shock coming.

Be smarter than a hamster.

Breaking into the ad-hominems already?

You can say you're not supporting it in any way, but you're still promoting it just by making this thread, whether or not you're just trying to spread the info.

People spending money the way they want to is none of your business, you can kick them if you want to, it's your game, but don't be surprised if it happens to you for the opposite reason because of this dumb crusade.

Complaining about it is one thing but adding even more toxicity into this waste plant of a community isn't needed.
Last edited by Akutare; Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:52pm
Professor Nep Nep Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:55pm 
Originally posted by Akutare:
I would just like to say it's not really a dumb crusade, it's entirely justified because of how ovk has gone back on their word on the one thing they said for years would never happen, are people going about it wrong? yeah, yeah they are but it's still justified and people will do what they think is right in ths situation. It's sad but nothing can be done about it as people won't stop kicking skinners and vice versa unless something happens
Last edited by Professor Nep Nep; Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:56pm
Yastin Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:57pm 
Originally posted by Akutare:

Breaking into the ad-hominems already?

You can say you're not supporting it in any way, but you're still promoting it just by making this thread, whether or not you're just trying to spread the info.

People spending money the way they want to is none of your business, you can kick them if you want to, it's your game, but don't be surprised if it happens to you for the opposite reason because of this dumb crusade.

Complaining about it is one thing but adding even more toxicity into this waste plant of a community isn't needed.

It's not an Ad Hominem, it's blatant frustration that a post reading, "This is information so you know what's happening and how to avoid most of it." is considered support of a thing you disagree with.

I guess by not taking sides here, your side, in particular, I have become your enemy, and you feel the need to say that I am wrong, even for spreading accurate information?

If you feel that I am providing innaccurate information, explain. If you see bias in the OP, explain. If your objection is simply that I am not with you, you are no better than your opposition. Good day.
IrishHellbringer Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:58pm 
#SkinKickEngaged no skins in my game.
Akutare Oct 17, 2015 @ 12:07am 
Originally posted by Yastin:
It's not an Ad Hominem, it's blatant frustration that a post reading, "This is information so you know what's happening and how to avoid most of it." is considered support of a thing you disagree with.

I guess by not taking sides here, your side, in particular, I have become your enemy, and you feel the need to say that I am wrong, even for spreading accurate information?

If you feel that I am providing innaccurate information, explain. If you see bias in the OP, explain. If your objection is simply that I am not with you, you are no better than your opposition. Good day.

If you were truly neutral about skins, this thread probably wouldn't exist.

Spreading information about what equates to actively targeting and ruining the game experience of others is likely going to make more people do it, aka promoting it, and in my eyes is why I think what you're doing is wrong, not because I think you're partaking in it.

You can have your opinion about it, and I can have mine, but this kind of stuff is where it starts moving away from that and into purposely affecting others because of your opinion.
Last edited by Akutare; Oct 17, 2015 @ 12:08am
TheCampingOwl Oct 17, 2015 @ 12:11am 
To all of you that buy skins, personally i will never buy skins, i have plenty of DLC's and the money for it, but skins are just not my thing.
However, if you find yourself getting kicked from lobbies and you can't host your own lobby because your internet is bad, feel free to join me when i'm playing, you won't get kicked for skins or anything else.
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PAYDAY 2 > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Oct 16, 2015 @ 11:18pm
Posts: 232