Why no ray tracing (not even in the road map)?

[SVINOTA DELUXE]

I get it that AMD is sponsoring this game, but come on, their GPUs support ray tracing too. Nvidia does it better, sure, but why the hell not add it into a AAA game in 2024? Should be pretty standard by now. Such a gorgeous-looking game would really benefit from RT.

[Astronimo]

Ray tracing messes up with the correct idea.

If you want to use ray tracing and keep the idea of the scene, it will require more time to do and way heavier in performance.

Key part is that the game has stuff, that is not like irl. Especially warp related. Messing up with ray tracing for... What exactly?

[SVINOTA DELUXE]

Originally posted by Astronimo:

Ray tracing messes up with the correct idea.

If you want to use ray tracing and keep the idea of the scene, it will require more time to do and way heavier in performance.

Key part is that the game has stuff, that is not like irl. Especially warp related. Messing up with ray tracing for... What exactly?

I get your point, but RT doesn't really mess up stuff that is not 'IRL'. Take Doom Eternal for example, it has RT and I wouldn't say that literal Hell is something you can see in real life. Works great there.
Regarding performance, RT can always be turned off. There are no games that require you to have a GPU that supports RT (excluding stuff like Portal RTX, Quake 2 RTX, etc.).

Sure, it would take some time to figure out RT lighting and reflections, but in my opinion, it's definetely worth it and greatly adds to any game's atmosphere when done correctly.

[Astronimo]

Originally posted by SVINOTA DELUXE:

Originally posted by Astronimo:

Ray tracing messes up with the correct idea.

If you want to use ray tracing and keep the idea of the scene, it will require more time to do and way heavier in performance.

Key part is that the game has stuff, that is not like irl. Especially warp related. Messing up with ray tracing for... What exactly?

I get your point, but RT doesn't really mess up stuff that is not 'IRL'. Take Doom Eternal for example, it has RT and I wouldn't say that literal Hell is something you can see in real life. Works great there.
Regarding performance, RT can always be turned off. There are no games that require you to have a GPU that supports RT (excluding stuff like Portal RTX, Quake 2 RTX, etc.).

Sure, it would take some time to figure out RT lighting and reflections, but in my opinion, it's definetely worth it and greatly adds to any game's atmosphere when done correctly.

Doom RT is reflections on your gun and that's it.

FYI, modern methods are using baked lighting. It's already RT, it's just static. The game doesn't have night and day cycle, it doesn't need that.
As for reflections - I don't care. Not the type of game where you will have time for that.
Thus GI and Reflections are as is. Shadows aren't impressive anyway. So no more efficient usage of RT here, but also no performance loss.

And AMD isn't far away in RT. Especially price/performance.

[SVINOTA DELUXE]

Originally posted by Astronimo:

Originally posted by SVINOTA DELUXE:

I get your point, but RT doesn't really mess up stuff that is not 'IRL'. Take Doom Eternal for example, it has RT and I wouldn't say that literal Hell is something you can see in real life. Works great there.
Regarding performance, RT can always be turned off. There are no games that require you to have a GPU that supports RT (excluding stuff like Portal RTX, Quake 2 RTX, etc.).

Sure, it would take some time to figure out RT lighting and reflections, but in my opinion, it's definetely worth it and greatly adds to any game's atmosphere when done correctly.

Doom RT is reflections on your gun and that's it.

FYI, modern methods are using baked lighting. It's already RT, it's just static. The game doesn't have night and day cycle, it doesn't need that.
As for reflections - I don't care. Not the type of game where you will have time for that.
Thus GI and Reflections are as is. Shadows aren't impressive anyway. So no more efficient usage of RT here, but also no performance loss.

And AMD isn't far away in RT. Especially price/performance.

I guess all that you say is fair, though I would still like to have the option. Not that many high-budget games getting released nowadays => not that many games that support RT.

And AMD is the king of bang for your buck, not even trying to argue there.

[Elite Yautja]

Originally posted by Astronimo:

Originally posted by SVINOTA DELUXE:

I get your point, but RT doesn't really mess up stuff that is not 'IRL'. Take Doom Eternal for example, it has RT and I wouldn't say that literal Hell is something you can see in real life. Works great there.
Regarding performance, RT can always be turned off. There are no games that require you to have a GPU that supports RT (excluding stuff like Portal RTX, Quake 2 RTX, etc.).

Sure, it would take some time to figure out RT lighting and reflections, but in my opinion, it's definetely worth it and greatly adds to any game's atmosphere when done correctly.

Doom RT is reflections on your gun and that's it.

FYI, modern methods are using baked lighting. It's already RT, it's just static. The game doesn't have night and day cycle, it doesn't need that.
As for reflections - I don't care. Not the type of game where you will have time for that.
Thus GI and Reflections are as is. Shadows aren't impressive anyway. So no more efficient usage of RT here, but also no performance loss.

And AMD isn't far away in RT. Especially price/performance.

You have clearly never played a fully implemented RT game, I suspect you don’t have the rig for it.

SM2 is actually the best type of game for such technology. There is a lot of interior environment, a lot of dark environments, a lot of lighting effects and a lot of shiny surfaces. So yeah, RT would be great.

As for a day and night cycle, it would be awesome for map variety.

[Astronimo]

Originally posted by Sliiiiders:

Originally posted by Astronimo:

Doom RT is reflections on your gun and that's it.

FYI, modern methods are using baked lighting. It's already RT, it's just static. The game doesn't have night and day cycle, it doesn't need that.
As for reflections - I don't care. Not the type of game where you will have time for that.
Thus GI and Reflections are as is. Shadows aren't impressive anyway. So no more efficient usage of RT here, but also no performance loss.

And AMD isn't far away in RT. Especially price/performance.

You have clearly never played a fully implemented RT game, I suspect you don’t have the rig for it.

SM2 is actually the best type of game for such technology. There is a lot of interior environment, a lot of dark environments, a lot of lighting effects and a lot of shiny surfaces. So yeah, RT would be great.

As for a day and night cycle, it would be awesome for map variety.

I've played cyberpunk with PT. Good enough?

Again. It's either braindead performance for absolutely nothing, or high performance.

I'm 100% sure, that due to swarms of nyds, real time lighting on their bodies will light 4090 in the fires of warp in a few minutes.

Additionally, ray tracing, especially path tracing, gives a pretty bland, but realistic look. While it's good for some games, I don't how it's good here.

Yes, it can be tweaked to serve the purpose,but the time to do that and performance hit will absolutely demolish the profit.

[Elite Yautja]

Originally posted by Astronimo:

Originally posted by Sliiiiders:

You have clearly never played a fully implemented RT game, I suspect you don’t have the rig for it.

SM2 is actually the best type of game for such technology. There is a lot of interior environment, a lot of dark environments, a lot of lighting effects and a lot of shiny surfaces. So yeah, RT would be great.

As for a day and night cycle, it would be awesome for map variety.

I've played cyberpunk with PT. Good enough?

Again. It's either braindead performance for absolutely nothing, or high performance.

I'm 100% sure, that due to swarms of nyds, real time lighting on their bodies will light 4090 in the fires of warp in a few minutes.

Additionally, ray tracing, especially path tracing, gives a pretty bland, but realistic look. While it's good for some games, I don't how it's good here.

Yes, it can be tweaked to serve the purpose,but the time to do that and performance hit will absolutely demolish the profit.

It is in any case an option to toggle or not.

Not having the choice to play with RT and HDR is bad

[Fluxion]

Yea, there's something wrong with my eyes apparently because ray-tracing on, off, high, low, it all looks the same to me.

I literally see no difference in any game that supports it and YES I've played plenty of games with full support.

I look at pictures of games side by side "RT on" "RT off"; they look the GD same to me. I mean.. there's maybe a subtle difference, but I'm dropping my performance and in some games causing downright issues with it on for just nothing impressive IMHO.

I don't know, last time I upgraded, I was so excited to get RT (even then not seeing a difference in pictures) but thinking I would notice in game. SUCH a major disappointment.

[SVINOTA DELUXE]

Originally posted by Fluxion:

Yea, there's something wrong with my eyes apparently because ray-tracing on, off, high, low, it all looks the same to me.

I literally see no difference in any game that supports it and YES I've played plenty of games with full support.

I look at pictures of games side by side "RT on" "RT off"; they look the GD same to me. I mean.. there's maybe a subtle difference, but I'm dropping my performance and in some games causing downright issues with it on for just nothing impressive IMHO.

I don't know, last time I upgraded, I was so excited to get RT (even then not seeing a difference in pictures) but thinking I would notice in game. SUCH a major disappointment.

This is sad. To me, RT (especially with path tracing) just brings the visuals of a game to a whole next level. It's the main reason why I want to see it implemented into more games. I initially played Cyberpunk on an Xbox Series X, then built myself a killer PC and tried Cyberpunk there with everything maxed out. The difference in graphics just blew my balls off.

But, I mean, a friend of mine says that he doesn't see any difference between 30 and 60 fps. To each their own, I guess.

[EUROPE/RUSSIA=MORONS]

maybe the game looks good without it, and it would tank performance cuz the engine. case closed.

[It's a Mind Game]

Originally posted by SVINOTA DELUXE:

Regarding performance, RT can always be turned off.

This is not always true, for example "Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora" and "Star Wars: Outlaws" will not let you turn if off. Developer of those games essentially didn't bother to implement non-RT techniques for things like shadows, reflections and GI.

It saves them time, and they can focus on making RT technique look in a way that they want it to look. It isn't that uncommon for some scenes in some games to be visually worse with RT (even if technically superior), because developer didn't spend time tuning it, to make it look as they have envisioned that scene. This is mostly true for Global Illumination, since RT reflections and shadows rarely (if ever) are worse than non-RT technique; sometimes they can be buggy and have some artifacts/stability issues, especially when denoiser is crap.

[SVINOTA DELUXE]

Originally posted by It's a Mind Game:

Originally posted by SVINOTA DELUXE:

Regarding performance, RT can always be turned off.

This is not always true, for example "Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora" and "Star Wars: Outlaws" will not let you turn if off. Developer of those games essentially didn't bother to implement non-RT techniques for things like shadows, reflections and GI.

It saves them time, and they can focus on making RT technique look in a way that they want it to look. It isn't that uncommon for some scenes in some games to be visually worse with RT (even if technically superior), because developer didn't spend time tuning it, to make it look as they have envisioned that scene. This is mostly true for Global Illumination, since RT reflections and shadows rarely (if ever) are worse than non-RT technique; sometimes they can be buggy and have some artifacts/stability issues, especially when denoiser is crap.

What the actual ♥♥♥♥. Though, for Avatar, the minimum GPU is 1060, and for Outlaws, 1660. Is it about that "software ray tracing", which, I think, was used in the Crysis remasters?

[Astronimo]

In outlaws it's the same stuff as Lumen. It still tanks the performance, but the difference is not really noticeable.

Key part is high performance within a huge swarm. If it tanks - you die. They baked all the lighting since there is no day/night cycle, thus lighting won't change anyway. And Warp is a vfx anyway.

RT is good for dynamic (since it's real time), but GOOD RT (which is PAth tracing) kills the performance.

Saber uses their own engine, swarm engine. It's feature is rendering 100+ enemies with working AI and such. Apply reflections and lighting to those - 4090 will blow up even at 1080p.

Idk why whine about the lack of absolutely garbage feature within the current hardware. They want as many players as possible, they were working on optimising it as much as possible. It still looks wonderful.

[Fluxion]

Originally posted by SVINOTA DELUXE:

Originally posted by Fluxion:

Yea, there's something wrong with my eyes apparently because ray-tracing on, off, high, low, it all looks the same to me.

I literally see no difference in any game that supports it and YES I've played plenty of games with full support.

I look at pictures of games side by side "RT on" "RT off"; they look the GD same to me. I mean.. there's maybe a subtle difference, but I'm dropping my performance and in some games causing downright issues with it on for just nothing impressive IMHO.

I don't know, last time I upgraded, I was so excited to get RT (even then not seeing a difference in pictures) but thinking I would notice in game. SUCH a major disappointment.

This is sad. To me, RT (especially with path tracing) just brings the visuals of a game to a whole next level. It's the main reason why I want to see it implemented into more games. I initially played Cyberpunk on an Xbox Series X, then built myself a killer PC and tried Cyberpunk there with everything maxed out. The difference in graphics just blew my balls off.

But, I mean, a friend of mine says that he doesn't see any difference between 30 and 60 fps. To each their own, I guess.

Yea, little to no difference in Cyperpunk. And funny you mention fps... yikes... almost the same boat there too... very little difference.

4k and 1080 basically look the same to me...

Yea, I know...

[Viper]

Space Marine looks beautiful and doesn't need it. Ray tracing is overrated and makes games look darker IMHO since more areas will have more shadows in many game environments. I imagine the developers tested it and decided it wasn't worth to implement. This strange focus on lighting needs to stop, I much rather have higher polygonal entities and better textures, then just better lighting. Lighting is just one small equation to graphic fidelity.