What counters white and life-gain?

[Shoebsy]

I'm running into White/Black life-gain/kill decks pretty much all the time, everyday. I keep running into turn 4-5 Anji's Pridemate at more than 6/6. and if not that, black destroy combos that don't allow me any chance at playing.

So what do? I like Green/Blue combos.

[Malvastor]

If you're sticking with Green/Blue?

• Bounce. Ajani (and several of the other mainstays for lifegain decks) depend on counters, and those disappear when it goes back to your opponent's hand.
  
• Counter. Don't let their linchpins hit the field at all. And as a bonus, they'll start playing much slower when they're trying to calculate exactly what you're doing with those untapped islands.
  
• Bounce and counter. Kick it to their hand and counter it when they try to reapply.
  
• Pin. Bitter Chill or Flood the Engine will turn the most beefed up creature into a 30/30 paperweight (the latter will stop it from getting big in the first place if applied early)
  
• Steal. That's a nice 60/60 Mossborn Hydra you've got there[scryfall.com], mind if I borrow it?
  
• Deathtouch. No matter how big it is it dies to a 1/1 with Deathtouch, and Green has plenty of those- some even with Reach.

Now, that's all assuming you're married to Blue/Green. If you're willing to dip Red, consider Screaming Nemesis[scryfall.com]. Drop that and hit it with a single Shock or Blowing Off Steam and you can shut down all your opponent's lifegain for the rest of the game. A solid chunk of his cards will immediately become dumb muscle.

[Shoebsy]

Publicado originalmente por Malvastor:

If you're sticking with Green/Blue?

• Bounce. Ajani (and several of the other mainstays for lifegain decks) depend on counters, and those disappear when it goes back to your opponent's hand.
  
• Counter. Don't let their linchpins hit the field at all. And as a bonus, they'll start playing much slower when they're trying to calculate exactly what you're doing with those untapped islands.
  
• Bounce and counter. Kick it to their hand and counter it when they try to reapply.
  
• Pin. Bitter Chill or Flood the Engine will turn the most beefed up creature into a 30/30 paperweight (the latter will stop it from getting big in the first place if applied early)
  
• Steal. That's a nice 60/60 Mossborn Hydra you've got there[scryfall.com], mind if I borrow it?
  
• Deathtouch. No matter how big it is it dies to a 1/1 with Deathtouch, and Green has plenty of those- some even with Reach.

Now, that's all assuming you're married to Blue/Green. If you're willing to dip Red, consider Screaming Nemesis[scryfall.com]. Drop that and hit it with a single Shock or Blowing Off Steam and you can shut down all your opponent's lifegain for the rest of the game. A solid chunk of his cards will immediately become dumb muscle.

Thanks, i've been running a couple things like Bitter Chill and Out Of Air already, but it seems like every time I put down 2 or 3 things from white, they'll simply toss out a new copy next turn.

never heard of Kitnap tho, might push for that.

Deathtouch also might help, maybe ontop of stuff. I feel i'm losing out on stuff to actually win a game though, or quickly losing on draw, I know my options for both thoses issues, but it seems like just countering a couple spells from white simply having more presense, power and control does too much.

[Malvastor]

What's the path to victory for your Blue/Green decks? E.G. are you trying to pump a Mossborn Hydra to lethal size, fill the board with elf tokens, etc?

[Shoebsy]

Publicado originalmente por Malvastor:

What's the path to victory for your Blue/Green decks? E.G. are you trying to pump a Mossborn Hydra to lethal size, fill the board with elf tokens, etc?

Mossborn hydra is one of them, with springbloom druid or cirtrus path (forgot it's real name) I use archdruid's charm to pull Koma World-Serpent or Ghalta Stampede forpower. Arcanis for draw.

That's won me games but for the last week, white life-gain on a couple turns has simply beat me everytime, and i keep running into it, most of my games.

[JediKnightSky]

Publicado originalmente por Shoebsy:

I'm running into White/Black life-gain/kill decks pretty much all the time, everyday. I keep running into turn 4-5 Anji's Pridemate at more than 6/6. and if not that, black destroy combos that don't allow me any chance at playing.

So what do? I like Green/Blue combos.

Poison. Always the best way to make all the health in the world mean nothing. Green is pretty good at that.

[PyroMail.com]

Aetherize is a nice solution to all creature-heavy decks in blue.

[Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn]

I think blue-green deck is overall weak against life gain. White and black have great board wipes. Black and red have cheap single-target removals. Red has great healing prevention.

Bouncing enemy creatures to their owner's hand is risky, because lifegain profits the most from enter triggers. Aetherize could be strong against lifegain decks (there are many variants of them), but when I played my lifegain deck, my variant usually won the game for me instead.

Deathtouch is neat - "Dragon Sniper" costs 1 green mana, which is cheap. But your opponent needs to attack first, which can be a huge drawback, because the opponent may decide to keep creatures alive for more lifegain triggers. If you're playing landfall creatures, consider adding "Skyserpent Seeker" (its value is questionable, but it surprisingly fits your case).
There are green spells that make your creature deal damage to an enemy creature. If your creature has deathtouch, then it will kill the enemy. Consider such spells if you have creatures with deathtouch.
If by any chance you have big creatures in deck, consider playing "Monstrous Emergence". It's a cheap removal that can deal a huge amount of damage.

Blue color has some cheap auras that might weaken an enemy creature. The problem is, these auras have some drawbacks. For example, "Bitter Chill" won't prevent that creature from using its abilities, which means it will be pointless to use it on many lifegain targets.

Auras that steal enemy creatures might be a huge help. Keep in mind that in Bo3, your opponent may play some enchantment hate to take them back.

To be honest, I think the best strategy against lifegain decks is to simply do what your color combination can do the best. So, pretty much ramp faster than your opponent and flood the board with even stronger creatures.

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

With how they do matchmaking, adding screaming nemesis is likely to keep you from seeing life gain at all. Just saying

[nul]

Publicado originalmente por ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ:

With how they do matchmaking, adding screaming nemesis is likely to keep you from seeing life gain at all. Just saying

Yeah, cause in weighted queues, Screaming Nemesis is a stronger card.
And in unweighted queues, people don't play lifegain.

[Shoebsy]

Publicado originalmente por Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn:

I think blue-green deck is overall weak against life gain.

I agree pretty much with all you've said, never seen Monsterous Emergence or Skyserpent seeker before tho! thank you for that, i'll probably play Monsterous Emergence since Archdruid' charm pulls Koma or Ghalta from my deck often.

I feel like i'm at a total disadvantage fighting white/black anytime, White seems undervalued with combos like (Healer's Hawk + Ajita's pridemate) simply ramping up on their second turn, not to mention all the other insanely easy synergy with white lifegain. I can't ramp up because of things like pacificy or cheap aura's that come out just as fast.

Publicado originalmente por Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn:

To be honest, I think the best strategy against lifegain decks is to simply do what your color combination can do the best. So, pretty much ramp faster than your opponent and flood the board with even stronger creatures.

This was my strategy, I feel my Blue/Green deck now pulls what I need, nearly on demand and can grab lands and mana rocks very fast, unless I simply get a silly unlucky opening hand, but i've been losing very consistently against even the smallest life ramp of white/black. When my opponent gets unlucky with being land-locked at 3-4, they're still reaching 40-50 life that I can widdle down with koma, but by that time, they'll find something to lock it down, or simply use 1-2 mana to kill or exile.

Having big heavy creatures is great, Koma has ward protection ontop of that silly +4 Koma Coils, but even reaching 8+ mana, with Hulking Raptor, With Spingbloom druid, with Herd Hierloom... I still can't beat out a simply angel deck with literally any amount of the massive choice of their "+1 when you gain life".

Like goblin rush decks? I understand that's their whole point, and out-pacing them with a big creature is the goal

But white life-gain, even with a few black cards for control? Genuinely feel like theres no chance unless they get unlucky and pull nothing.

[TotalTriscuit]

It could be worse, you know... It could be what I do... Flying with lifelink and token spam thanks to Elspeth Storm Caller and Resplendent for buffing and giving everything lifelink.