How to get started with Source Engine (2)

[EvilBone]

Hi there,
I want to start the Development of a little RTS Game. I have more than 10 year experience in C++ development. I have spend weeks now to try out any web-links to find any information to get started with source engine. Everywhere ist talking about source engine is free, but ending up in non helpfull information. I did not find any understandable descriptions or tutorials how to setup the development environment based on the source engine, just for an own game. I have installed Source SDK, but it looks like only to be applicable for modification development of already existing games like HalfLive or Portal. Every of the tools is not starting e.g. Hammer Editor says there isn't a configuration file available. I think Source SDK, sound promising, but is not applicable for my needs.

Does anyone can give me a hint where to find the required information?
* Where to get/download a working game development environment based on source engine?
* How to setup the game development environment?
* Is it a good idea to deal with valve source engine environment?

[Dmitriy]

What you can get is the source code and assets of HL2, HL2:MP, Alien Swarm. Then you can modify any of them to make your RTS game/mod. There is already an RTS mod called Lambda Wars.

1. https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013
Assets are in Steam - Library - Tools - Source sdk base 2013
2. https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SDK2013_GettingStarted
basically you need Visual Studio 2013 installed. just click generategameprojects.bat and it will create solution. Open it and build your client.dll and server.dll. they are copied into mod_hlmp/bin(for HL2:MP mod). If you put mod_hlmp folder into your sorcmods folder and restart steam it will show you your mod in steam library.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=232923055
3. it depends what are you up to. Lambda wars have been in development for 5+ years afaik.

[libertarian ettin]

Just so you know, if you want to make a commercial game with Source you'll have to get a Havok license which costs $25k.

https://partner.steamgames.com/documentation/source_games

Also the errors you are getting from Hammer are caused by using the outdated Source SDK Launcher. You'll want to install Source SDK Base 2013 (you'll need it for running your mod anyways) and use the Hammer in its bin folder (Steam/SteamApps/common/Source SDK Base 2013/bin/Hammer.bat).

[Wazanator]

If you are looking to make an RTS game you are looking at the wrong engine I'm afraid. Source 1 uses bsp tech which while good for games like Quake and Half-Life 2 is not good for more open world games like an RTS. It is possible (as there have been about 2 or 3 RTS mods at this point) but it's like using a hammer to put a screw in a board, yeah you can do it but it doesn't make it the best tool for the job. Not to mention the Source coding community is not large at all, learning Source and coding with it is an uphill battle because there is not a lot of good documentation. There's some good articles on the wiki but they a lot are outdated at this point because they were written between 2005-2010. A number of things have changed during that time which makes previous code examples not work without some troubleshooting and that is not ideal honestly for someone who is trying to learn the engine.

I would look at the Spring Engine[springrts.com] the code is open source with a GNU GPL v2 which means that your code must be open sourced but everything else can be closed source (so things like texture, models, sounds, etc) so as to provide the community and future developers the ability to learn off your code. If you want to make a for profit RTS game on a budget that's where I would start. Other engines you should consider would be Unity and Unreal 4. I mean you could even probably consider a more 2D focused engine if you wanted.

I hope this next bit doesn't get me a ban but I would be hesitant at this point in time to recommend holding out for Source 2.

We still know very little about the engine but what we do know so far doesn't exactly put it as a strong competitor to Unreal 4 yet outside of the networking is apparently very well done. People are making some really amazing things with Unreal 4, there's a large community, direct developer support and a lot of tutorials and examples already out there. On top of that the longer Source 2 is not released the further Unity and Unreal get ahead in terms of user foothold and when it is looking like there won't be huge differences between the two it becomes harder to convince developers who are already have a feel for the other engines to switch.

Valve has done a lot for developers and the modding community but in the last couple of years they have slipped quite a bit and let down people. They put to much reliance on the community to update their wiki for them and develop the tutorials and fixes they should be doing. I hope it's a case of them being too occupied with Source 2 and making sure that launches really well and support from there on out will be amazing with well documented code and a group in charge of running community relations between developers and the Source 2 team but at this point I have very little hope given the track record. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Valve is great at making tech but they are not great at documenting that tech for third party use and I don't blame them as that is the least fun part of development.

That said Ludwig has done a great job of looking after the SDK 2013 repo and I wish more of Valves employees were hands on with the community like he is.

[Dmitriy]

I disagree with the statement that Source engine is bad for RTS. Just look at Alien Swarm and Dota 2. Afaik Dota2 was based on things from Alien Swarm code base. Lambda Wars is based on Alien Swarm. Just take the Alien Swarm code from Alien Swarm SDK(Steam - Library - Tools) and you're ready for an RTS. AS's Hammer is more up to date then the one from SSDK 2013. asw_drone_simple(if I remember the name correctly) is the perfect NPC to start coding your RTS units.

[Wazanator]

Like I said it is possible to make an RTS I just wouldn't recommend it when there are engines out there made specifically for it. Not to mention if he is looking to go indie Source 1 is for sure not the way to go.

[EvilBone]

WOW! Thank you all for the quick and extensive response! I have found very good hints to think about it.

So briefly, I want to tell you about my ideas regarding the various game engines:

I thought the source engine in combination with steamworks may have some advantages if I plan one day to go via valve's greenlight to publish the game. But license fee for the game engine definately is a no go from my point of view. I think I will spend a lot of time, but not earn any bucks by the game the next 5 years. I am nosy regarding source engine 2, but I am not sure if I will get lost regarding missing knowledge of valve specifics. Its true, DOTA is a very impressive game.

The Spring engine is very similiar to the game engine of Warzone 2100, which has been my favorite RTS all over the years. But the Spring engine has some disadvantages from my point of view: It is dedicated to be developed under linux, but my development platform is windows. And it is using LUA for game logic. I prefer C++ for game logic. And I don't feel spring engine will be a technical innovation.

The unity engine offers everthing for beginners of game development. Unity is almost offering beginners tutorials in a lovely way. It seems to be a good joice to get startet with game development. But it's required the professional version to develop a game with C++, which is not free. So personal, I am not motivated to go ahead with unity.

I never had a look into the unreal engine evironment. But I will check this the next time.

[EvilBone]

OMG - Unreal Engine 4 is so amazing !!!

* It is free for all learning and development purposes.
* It offers similiar tutorial and example stuff as Unity does.
* It has C++ API, and a very good MS Visual Studio integration. Thats a way better than Unity.
* I think, I am fine with UE4 ...

[僕の名前 (仮)]

I know it's off-topic but you should not use Source, use UE4. Or wait for Source 2.

[meleon]

GY8I

[Mike]

This thread was quite old before the recent post, so we're locking it to prevent confusion.