Thoughts on adding difficulty levels to cantos

[Malbarrow]

Missed the pre-nerf fights and wanted to probe some thoughts

[Caxapok]

Originally posted by Silver l>>>:

A no 000 challenge will be fun to see, specially for casual who just "win rate", maybe they iliteracy curse may be broken

Are you crazy? Casuals will eat you without bread

[Caxapok]

Originally posted by Birp:

Anyways, whatever, I beat most of Canto 6 first try blind, then I tried some fights again with various teams, won first try, yeah I guess I'm just supremely lucky.

Nah, devs just gave you easy version of game. Corruption, everything is bought... ahah

[Ryo]

I think that idea would be absolutely useless.
People would still want to get the full rewards, if doing something in hardmode doesn't reward you more than doing it in normal it wouldn't matter/be fair to the people trying harder.
And then if the rewards were greater in HM instead of NM the people complaining about hard mode would still complain anyways because they'd be cut off from the "actual" reward if they were to play normal.
And people would tell them "just play normal mode" if they start whining on this board changing absolutely nothing to the initial problem in the best case scenario, exacerbating the problem by giving the trolls tools to taunt them in the worst.

tl;dr would be a lot of work for absolutely no result, 90IQ idea from a design standpoint.

[Lycan]

To be honest, the problem exists simply because... the game has been in easy mode for a long time. Because you can carry EGO resources, you can stay in one round of the dungeon to farm like 100 of Sins Resources and spam them in later stages, so, basicly, cheese. With the removal of Dungeon for this Canto, casual players have to learn to play the game correctly, and we have something like this.

So, I am opposed to the idea of 'easy mode', simply because the game has been in easy mode for a long time, and now it's still in easy mode. It just stops allowing people to cheese the fights and casual players go ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy. Learn to play the game instead of complaining. Instead of 'Why PM makes X so hard', you should ask 'My team is X what strategy can I use to beat this boss?'

[Caxapok]

They cant avoid human inadequacy or defeat human illogicality, any idea or movement, good it or bad will be criticized by haters(or cry babes, as vets or Homosapiens calls them).

But you know, that devs cant just do nothing, right?

[Oodanna]

just went around looking at some identities and there are some genuinely powerful 2 star identities, not for their raw damage output, but effects, most notably would be red note sinclair for rupture teams, as well as, and this one can be nasty against multi coin enemy skills, ncorp heathcliff who has a 2 plus coin drop skill 2

[Ryo]

Originally posted by Oodanna:

just went around looking at some identities and there are some genuinely powerful 2 star identities, not for their raw damage output, but effects, most notably would be red note sinclair for rupture teams, as well as, and this one can be nasty against multi coin enemy skills, ncorp heathcliff who has a 2 plus coin drop skill 2

Some 0 identities are already plenty powerful as is, people just don't even consider them.
Base Heathcliff is one of the best blunt damage dealers you can get, with a 22 power S3 clash that can dish some real damage after a single Bodysack use.
Base Hong Lu can recover sanity with his passive at such a high pace and has such a good clashing power and damage he basically runs full throttle after 1 turn.
Base Outis is one, if not the strongest 0 ID out there, outperforming a lot of higher rarity IDs easily, and her base E.G.O has almost no cost but boosts her in terms of clashing power and DPS for the rest of the battle in some kind of "use once and forget" deal not dissimilar to Heathcliff.
Yet I've seen a whole bunch of people playing Outis never once using To Páthos Máthos in whole fights because... idk? they don't like winning or something?

[Oodanna]

Originally posted by Ryo:

Originally posted by Oodanna:

just went around looking at some identities and there are some genuinely powerful 2 star identities, not for their raw damage output, but effects, most notably would be red note sinclair for rupture teams, as well as, and this one can be nasty against multi coin enemy skills, ncorp heathcliff who has a 2 plus coin drop skill 2

Some 0 identities are already plenty powerful as is, people just don't even consider them.
Base Heathcliff is one of the best blunt damage dealers you can get, with a 22 power S3 clash that can dish some real damage after a single Bodysack use.
Base Hong Lu can recover sanity with his passive at such a high pace and has such a good clashing power and damage he basically runs full throttle after 1 turn.
Base Outis is one, if not the strongest 0 ID out there, outperforming a lot of higher rarity IDs easily, and her base E.G.O has almost no cost but boosts her in terms of clashing power and DPS for the rest of the battle in a kind of "use once and forget" not dissimilar to Heathcliff.

some of the base identities are straight up garbage, but then theres Hong Lu, Heathcliff, Ishmael, and Outis being better than some 000 indentities (staring at you zwei gregor)

[Ryo]

Originally posted by Oodanna:

some of the base identities are straight up garbage, but then theres Hong Lu, Heathcliff, Ishmael, and Outis being better than some 000 indentities (staring at you zwei gregor)

I don't even know about calling Zwei Gregor bad. Guardian greatly improves the survival of your entire party and synergize so well with counter / shield tank IDs it could fool me into thinking its an E.G.O.

[voidlich666]

Originally posted by Ryo:

some of the base identities are straight up garbage, but then theres Hong Lu, Heathcliff, Ishmael, and Outis being better than some 000 indentities (staring at you zwei gregor)

Singling out Zwei Greg as the "worse than base 000" when SunCliff exists is...a choice.

[Ortaign]

I'm not a fan of difficulty modes in gacha games, they usually end up adding nothing much to the game either being too easy or tuned to a degree that requires cheesing, whaling or needs a specific comp to clear it, which obliterates team building.

Though whaling doesn't really do much in Limbus Company, so people would just cheese instead.

[Caiocas]

Originally posted by voidlich666:

Originally posted by Ryo:

some of the base identities are straight up garbage, but then theres Hong Lu, Heathcliff, Ishmael, and Outis being better than some 000 indentities (staring at you zwei gregor)

Singling out Zwei Greg as the "worse than base 000" when SunCliff exists is...a choice.

Yeah SunCliff is still bad even with the sanity loss passive from most of this canto, copium tells me they`ll fix him on uptie 5 but who knows, maybe this ID being bad is an internal joke at PM and they`ll make him gain even more sp on clash wins

[Ryo]

Originally posted by Caiocas:

Originally posted by voidlich666:

Singling out Zwei Greg as the "worse than base 000" when SunCliff exists is...a choice.

Yeah SunCliff is still bad even with the sanity loss passive from most of this canto, copium tells me they`ll fix him on uptie 5 but who knows, maybe this ID being bad is an internal joke at PM and they`ll make him gain even more sp on clash wins

Zwei Gregor is decent if what you need is your team surviving very hard hitting attacks or if you're using IDs that either performs better at low health, or deal more damage by upkeeping a shield like Dieci Rodion, and I've seen him solo mirror dungeons.

Suncliff is perfectly fine, if not actually on the better end the moment people utilize his counter at the proper time (during double skill situations mixed in with his 1 or 3 or when attacks are focused on him) and the day when people actually realize that you aren't supposed to win your clashes with his skill 1 but actually lose them to build him to a sanity range (usually -20) and stop constantly trying to clash with his 2 and 3 when he has over 0 sanity is the day people will actually get results from him. On the other end he does need proper support to really shine (I.E Nclair, Sister Don or Manor Faust) making him hard to use properly.
I am in fact convinced that the main reason people trash talk Suncliff is because they keep pressing the auto button that works against what he does and don't see him do anything worthwhile as a result, tl;dr if you press auto and see Suncliff with a "dominating" clash turn 1 this is NOT a good situation for him and it would take you 2 seconds to select his skill 1 and put him in a losing clash situation instead which IS what you should be doing instead until he has -20 sanity.

Now on the other hand I'd really like to see a single person actually give proper results with a Blade Lineage Salsu Sinclair, I tried using him for a whole week and ended up with very high damage, in a full lineage team like 3 times when the damn stars align and he also is a counter setup character with the main difference with suncliff being that he's actually made out of paper.
For me at least that 000 is probably the one worst 000 in the entire game because his stats work completely against his gameplan.

[voidlich666]

Originally posted by Caiocas:

Suncliff is perfectly fine, if not actually on the better end the moment people utilize his counter at the proper time (during double skill situations mixed in with his 1 or 3 or when attacks are focused on him) and the day when people actually realize that you aren't supposed to win your clashes with his skill 1 but actually lose them to build him to a sanity range (usually -20) and stop constantly trying to clash with his 2 and 3 when he has over 0 sanity is the day people will actually get results from him. On the other end he does need proper support to really shine (I.E Nclair, Sister Don or Manor Faust) making him hard to use properly.
I am in fact convinced that the main reason people trash talk Suncliff is because they keep pressing the auto button that works against what he does and don't see him do anything worthwhile as a result, tl;dr if you press auto and see Suncliff with a "dominating" clash turn 1 this is NOT a good situation for him and it would take you 2 seconds to select his skill 1 and put him in a losing clash situation instead which IS what you should be doing instead until he has -20 sanity.

Honestly, all the finagling you have to do just to make him functional beyond dead weight is part of the problem. The other IDs you mention shining with support really shine with support: Manor Faust w/ Manor Outis can inflict near-permanent uptime Echoes of the Manor, Sister Don gets some crazy nuke potential after enough Envy Res, and NClair rewards you with absurd raw damage for managing his sanity properly. What does SunCliff offer that's worth letting him lose clashes and facetank for several turns instead of just turning Tremor into pseudo-Fragile with Oufi, or getting far better damage with still solid defenses from Pequod, or even N Corp with his borderline exclusive Plus Coin Drop?