I suck at Sekiro games and parrying, should I pass on Clair Obscur?

[Blade]

I'm not looking to get stressed out and disappointed. I played for about 45 minutes on expedition and I died in the tutorial because I couldn't hit any parries. I can hit dodges no problem, even perfect dodges, but parries are just not going to happen. I don't have the motor skills and that just is what it is. I've been reading a lot on the game and it sounds like it's a truly amazing and wonderful game, but the reliance on the parry mechanic to be the main crutch for the difficulty is enough to completely over-shadow and ruin the game for people like me.

What's worse is the parries are harder than any action game that currently exists. Apparently late game, parrying is the only way you can finish of a lot of enemies, so at some point this game is going to expect me be able to parry, meaning I can't just dodge the whole game. Sometimes the enemy jumps and it's an attack, sometimes they jump and it's just a jump. Things are like that are completely unfair, it's also extremely frustrating because it literally requires inhuman cat-like reaction reaction time to parry or even dodge one of those dupes. It's essentially just forced damaged.

So to those who have actually played and are still playing, would you recommend I just pass and play something else? I did see there was a parry mod, it didn't take long for people to start making those except I play on GamePass because it's free. But I'm not sure how to install mods there.

[dustin1280]

Well the dodge timing is MUCH more forgiving and it avoids MOST damage...

It also has a story mode which has much more generous parry/dodge windows.

There is also a mod that makes the parry windows even larger.

You WILL have to make use of the dodge mechanic and the parry mechanic to some extent though. So if you absolutely hate that type of thing, this might not be the game for you unfortunately...

[Blade]

Originally posted by dustin1280:

Well the dodge timing is MUCH more forgiving and it avoids MOST damage...

It also has a story mode which has much more generous parry/dodge windows.

There is also a mod that makes the parry windows even larger.

You WILL have to make use of the dodge mechanic and the parry mechanic to some extent though. So if you absolutely hate that type of thing, this might not be the game for you unfortunately...

I don't hate it, I just suck at it. I mean I can dodge and parry in Souls Likes or games like rise of the ronin but those don't usually try to trick you the way this game does where an enemy can jump for an attack, and other times the jump is just a jump. The dodge I can do just fine, but like I said, I read that later in the game there are a lot of enemies that can only be killed with a parry. That's the part I'm worried about, is it true?

[gungadin22000]

I'd honestly skip this if you dislike parrying mechanics. It's the main gimmick of the game that sets it apart from other JRPGs.

The parrying timing is also fairly unintuitive, at least to me. If you want a game that has great parrying mechanics, get Lies of P.

[Jester]

This game is very accessible to every skill level.
Don't play Expert mode if you can't handle it. Either go Story mode or Expeditioner.
Expeditioner is for people who like classic turn base power scaling so you can tank a few more hits. Expert is for people who want it to become skill base and you're gonna have to Parry and Dodge a lot.

People crying about the parry is the same chumps forcing theirselves to play Expert mode when they're not up to par and wouldn't lower their ego. Don't fall in that same pitfall.

[Blade]

Originally posted by Haruspex:

This game is very accessible to every skill level.
Don't play Expert mode if you can't handle it. Either go Story mode or Expeditioner.
Expeditioner is for people who like classic turn base power scaling so you can tank a few more hits. Expert is for people who want it to become skill base and you're gonna have to Parry and Dodge a lot.

People crying about the parry is the same chumps forcing theirselves to play Expert mode when they're not up to par and wouldn't lower their ego. Don't fall in that same pitfall.

I was playing on Story. lmao and I'm not complaining, I clearly stated that I just suck, never said anything negative about the game so please don't project what other people are doing on me. :)

[dustin1280]

Originally posted by Blade:

I don't hate it, I just suck at it. I mean I can dodge and parry in Souls Likes or games like rise of the ronin but those don't usually try to trick you the way this game does where an enemy can jump for an attack, and other times the jump is just a jump. The dodge I can do just fine, but like I said, I read that later in the game there are a lot of enemies that can only be killed with a parry. That's the part I'm worried about, is it true?

I don't think there are counter ONLY enemies... Enemies will just take longer if you aren't parrying because parry is a VERY strong attack.

Someone also beat this game on expert making a defense build and just eating every hit while healing, so parry is not MANDATORY, just encouraged.

[Loi]

A perfect dodge has the exact same timing as a parry, so if you can hit those then you can hit parries. So once your dodges are mostly/all perfect then you've learnt the attack and just change your button, but you really don't need to parry if you can dodge, it just increases your damage.

Things are like that are completely unfair, it's also extremely frustrating because it literally requires inhuman cat-like reaction reaction time to parry or even dodge one of those dupes. It's essentially just forced damaged.

Parrying is *not* a reaction mechanic. It's a timing mechanic. The game tells you which move they are about to use and give various audio/visual cues - you will see the same attack over and over again throughout your playthrough and once you learn the timing you do not need to "react." I play this game a lot on my phone and I can parry when I'm on the bus streaming from my house - the latency is not an issue because the game telegraphs the attacks.

[Jester]

Originally posted by Blade:

Originally posted by Haruspex:

This game is very accessible to every skill level.
Don't play Expert mode if you can't handle it. Either go Story mode or Expeditioner.
Expeditioner is for people who like classic turn base power scaling so you can tank a few more hits. Expert is for people who want it to become skill base and you're gonna have to Parry and Dodge a lot.

People crying about the parry is the same chumps forcing theirselves to play Expert mode when they're not up to par and wouldn't lower their ego. Don't fall in that same pitfall.

I was playing on Story. lmao and I'm not complaining, I clearly stated that I just suck, never said anything negative about the game so please don't project what other people are doing on me. :)

Never said you're one of them if you got hit by the stone I threw in the air that's not on me. Clearly told you don't fall in the same pitfall.

On topic, Dodges are fine. You're gonna finish the game relying on it. A bit slow on the damage but story mode health is lowered anyway so it's all good.
There are attacks in Expert mode that straight up deletes your character from existence(the battle) if fail to dodge/parry but that doesn't exist in story mode. It just lets you tank it like it any other hit.
You're gonna be just fine.

[Bekhent]

Originally posted by dustin1280:

Originally posted by Blade:

I don't hate it, I just suck at it. I mean I can dodge and parry in Souls Likes or games like rise of the ronin but those don't usually try to trick you the way this game does where an enemy can jump for an attack, and other times the jump is just a jump. The dodge I can do just fine, but like I said, I read that later in the game there are a lot of enemies that can only be killed with a parry. That's the part I'm worried about, is it true?

I don't think there are counter ONLY enemies... Enemies will just take longer if you aren't parrying because parry is a VERY strong attack.

Someone also beat this game on expert making a defense build and just eating every hit while healing, so parry is not MANDATORY, just encouraged.

Few optional bosses and loot enemies that require parrying to beat. Other than that, it is manageable if you don't have a massive ego. Like stated before. The story is incredible. I would recommend playing on story mode just to experience it. There are also mods if you are still having trouble, which are very easy to install.

Or you can boost defense and just eat hits, even if you suck at the mechanic you can work around it. There is dodging, healing, defense stat, shields. So you have quite a few options :D

[Blade]

Originally posted by Loi:

A perfect dodge has the exact same timing as a parry, so if you can hit those then you can hit parries. So once your dodges are mostly/all perfect then you've learnt the attack and just change your button, but you really don't need to parry if you can dodge, it just increases your damage.

Things are like that are completely unfair, it's also extremely frustrating because it literally requires inhuman cat-like reaction reaction time to parry or even dodge one of those dupes. It's essentially just forced damaged.

Parrying is *not* a reaction mechanic. It's a timing mechanic. The game tells you which move they are about to use and give various audio/visual cues - you will see the same attack over and over again throughout your playthrough and once you learn the timing you do not need to "react." I play this game a lot on my phone and I can parry when I'm on the bus streaming from my house - the latency is not an issue because the game telegraphs the attacks.

People keep saying that but it does feel like those attacks switch up. For example in the tutorial this girl does a 3 stage attack where she charges at me to attack, but the wind up time varies every time, sometimes she swings as soon as she reaches me, sometimes she's takes a few seconds after reaching me to swing, so that's not timing, that's reaction. Her second attack is a jump, sometimes it's an attack, and sometimes she's just jumping in the air, that's not timing, it's deception, then her third attack is a dive bomb attack that also has varying windup times and animations. Those variations are what always get me because it tries to trick you and fake you out.

[Blade]

Originally posted by Haruspex:

Originally posted by Blade:

I was playing on Story. lmao and I'm not complaining, I clearly stated that I just suck, never said anything negative about the game so please don't project what other people are doing on me. :)

Never said you're one of them if you got hit by the stone I threw in the air that's not on me. Clearly told you don't fall in the same pitfall.

On topic, Dodges are fine. You're gonna finish the game relying on it. A bit slow on the damage but story mode health is lowered anyway so it's all good.
There are attacks in Expert mode that straight up deletes your character from existence(the battle) if fail to dodge/parry but that doesn't exist in story mode. It just lets you tank it like it any other hit.
You're gonna be just fine.

You never know on Steam Forums. Some people are just trolls so I just wanted to set a boundary. But okay, if the difference between dodging and parrying is just damage output then it's not as rough as I thought.

[Loi]

Originally posted by Blade:

People keep saying that but it does feel like those attacks switch up. For example in the tutorial this girl does a 3 stage attack where she charges at me to attack, but the wind up time varies every time, sometimes she swings as soon as she reaches me, sometimes she's takes a few seconds after reaching me to swing, so that's not timing, that's reaction. Her second attack is a jump, sometimes it's an attack, and sometimes she's just jumping in the air, that's not timing, it's deception, then her third attack is a dive bomb attack that also has varying windup times and animations.

"Maelle performs a combo" is a three-stage attack which ends with a jump.
"Maelle attacks" is where she will stand and hold her sword for a moment before attacking.

The timing for these moves is always the same, they are different moves and the game tells you which one she is about to do. The parry window is small so perhaps you feel like the timings are changing when you miss one, but they are the same every time, and this is true throughout the entire game.

[GeminiEclipse]

You can do just fine with dodge. The parry only boss can be beaten with another gimmick though you might need to come back later when you have more damage. And as someone else said, perfect dodge is the same timing as parry. So you definitely can parry, but it will take longer to get used to than dodge.

I'm not entirely sure, but as far as I know the reason attacks seem to have different start ups for the same attack is because they are timed to the music.

[Nova eXelon]

Originally posted by Blade:

People keep saying that but it does feel like those attacks switch up.

If you are into it there is a mod that extends the parry/dodge animations making the invulnerability window longer.
https://www.nexusmods.com/clairobscurexpedition33/mods/28

Keep in mind though if you install the longest version (5x longer) you might stay in the parry animation for so long that you can't parry all follow up attacks if they are quick enough. But 2x or 3x easier should be fine.

In the latter half of the game there are definitely enemies with wind up attacks so long that you can hit parry three times before the attack finally comes out. So putting enough points into defence is still worth it.

On a side note I don't understand why the devs felt the need to put parry into the game in the first place. There are soooo many passive skills that lets you build an absolute tank, glass canon, strong with mostly base attacks, vampire (life steal), dare devil (can't be healed but dishes out more) and so on.
Even with no grinding at all characters will get to 9999HP damage well before the end of the game.

[Jester]

Originally posted by Nova eXelon:

Originally posted by Blade:

People keep saying that but it does feel like those attacks switch up.

If you are into it there is a mod that extends the parry/dodge animations making the invulnerability window longer.
https://www.nexusmods.com/clairobscurexpedition33/mods/28

Keep in mind though if you install the longest version (5x longer) you might stay in the parry animation for so long that you can't parry all follow up attacks if they are quick enough. But 2x or 3x easier should be fine.

In the latter half of the game there are definitely enemies with wind up attacks so long that you can hit parry three times before the attack finally comes out. So putting enough points into defence is still worth it.

On a side note I don't understand why the devs felt the need to put parry into the game in the first place. There are soooo many passive skills that lets you build an absolute tank, glass canon, strong with mostly base attacks, vampire (life steal), dare devil (can't be healed but dishes out more) and so on.
Even with no grinding at all characters will get to 9999HP damage well before the end of the game.

Take a look at the creative director's favorite game which would explain a lot. I think adding parry into this game is the right step. Been playing turn based for almost two decades at this point and they're seriously getting stale and all they did was make animations flashier for your attacks or some weird gimmick in recent years. Old marios games from the ds figured this out much early on.