Lies of P is good and bad.

[master.yoda99]

I just finished the game and got the Rise of P ending. After beating the game in 30 hours my feelings about this game is mixed. I love the artistic direction in this game. Everything looks and sounds beautiful. The story is also better than most soul-like games. Performance wise this game brilliantly optimised and very stable. In 30 hours I only had one crash. With DLSS on, at 4K resolution and max settings, I mostly had over 100 FPS which is great and the game runs butter smooth.

But I did not enjoy the combat. This game want you play it like you play Sekiro and use perfect block (or Parry in Sekiro), but it doesn't let you cancel attacks and the perfect guard window is so short and unforgiving. Also even if you perfect block, it still drains your stamina. Furthermore, your weapon gets damaged and you need to sharpen it which adds artificial difficulty to the game. As result, even though Lies of P is not as difficult as Sekiro, but it is so frustrating and at times the frustrations kill the fun. Not to mention the character movement is clunky, and at times you get stuck at the wall and get hacked to pieces. The annoyance here is the combat is like Sekiro but the character doesn't have the fluidity and the speed of Sekiro, and so the rhythm feels off.

The bosses in this game have amazing arts and they look interesting. However often they only have certain move sets and they just spam the same attacks, but they have so much health which make the fights super long. Therefore, after a while (especially past mid game), the boss fights became more of a nuisance than rewarding experience.

As for level design, this game is ok. The levels are fairly linear. You need to find and activate "stargazers" which act like the bon fires in the Dark Soul games. There are also short cuts that can be opened so if you die and respawn, you can get back to where you were quickly. However, the positioning of these stargazers and shortcuts are questionable. Sometimes they put the next stargazer or the door to the shortcut very far away and after a mini boss. This means you often have little health by the time you reach the mini boss, and if you die, you respawn from the previous stargazeer and start again. Technically in those situations you can run away from the mini boss and go to the next stargazer, re-charge and come back. But it is still more annoying than fun.

They also use the common trope in Dark Soul games where they hide enemies around the corner to ambush you as you walk pass. This trope become old and annoying quickly, especially when you are walking on a beam and an enemy suddenly jump out from the corner to ambush you, pushed you off the beam so you fall to your death; this sort of stuff is just not fun.

Having said this Lies of P is not a bad game overall. I just wish I can like the game more but I can't because of the short comings I mentioned above. They obviously want you to play this game like Sekiro, and I think the game could have been amazing if the combat and the speed are also like Seikor. But sadly it is not and it is a bit clunky. So to me, this game is ok but not great. Also LIes of P is not an impossible game and if you persevere you can beat it in about 30 hours. However the experience is not going to be always good. Therefore I totally get why most reviews didn't give this game a 9 out 10 but rather it is somewhere between 7 and 8 and I think that is a fair assessment.

[JoJoFan87]

I agree though I love the game. Devs take note as he has listed every issue I have with the game thus far.

[Kamakura]

The attack spam is definitely a problem with certain bosses. Having to Perfect Guard like 5+ attacks, just to have them go into again right after, or some fights are so aggressive, that you'll burn down your weapon condition and you'll never have an opportunity to grind, and you can't stock up on urgent repairs.

Some fights are abit unbalanced too. I think it was Walker of Illusions, that's harder than a number of main boss fights I've done, primarily because you have an enemy that is very fast, and has an absurd amount of health. Usually you can tell if an enemy is kinda tanky a lot of the time, like the clown, notably tanky, makes a ton of sense, but scrawny, tall, brain lady with dual blades? Even more health than the Clown. That's a boss that is over-tuned.

[master.yoda99]

I forgot to add another issue; I noticed for some bosses, sometimes when they pull the big AOE attacks the range is so big their weapons or their body disappear from the field of view on your screen, so you can't even see them attacking, and as a result it is extremely difficult to time the block.

[zmanbuilder]

i Beat the game twice and is currently on a new game+ run, i felt like i won in spite of the game, not the best feeling, but i did end up liking the nameless puppet fight though.

[Kamakura]

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

i Beat the game twice and is currently on a new game+ run, i felt like i won in spite of the game, not the best feeling, but i did end up liking the nameless puppet fight though.

I wanted to like that fight more, it was way more enjoyable than Lax and Simon, but to me, the 2nd Phase is spoiled abit because I find there's too many flashy effects on him, so it gets really hard to truly follow his attacks and get the timing down.

[Okat]

maybe you felt frustrated because you went into it thinking it is sekiro and played like sekiro, and since you didn't get the sekiro gameplay your experience became worse. The parry timing is way too short for you to perfect guard flurry of attacks in this game. It can be done, but I see people trying to do exactly that and get frustrated they can't do it. I just either run out of it, dodge it or guard it. It's not sekiro, don't play like one. The game is incredibly fluid, but if you try to play like sekiro to spam block between attacks, of course, it's going to feel clunky.

[SpaceHobo]

Originally posted by Okat:

maybe you felt frustrated because you went into it thinking it is sekiro and played like sekiro, and since you didn't get the sekiro gameplay your experience became worse. The parry timing is way too short for you to perfect guard flurry of attacks in this game. It can be done, but I see people trying to do exactly that and get frustrated they can't do it. I just either run out of it, dodge it or guard it. It's not sekiro, don't play like one.

Pretty much why the game will stay mediocre, people will defend terrible design till their death.

[master.yoda99]

Originally posted by Okat:

maybe you felt frustrated because you went into it thinking it is sekiro and played like sekiro, and since you didn't get the sekiro gameplay your experience became worse. The parry timing is way too short for you to perfect guard flurry of attacks in this game. It can be done, but I see people trying to do exactly that and get frustrated they can't do it. I just either run out of it, dodge it or guard it. It's not sekiro, don't play like one. The game is incredibly fluid, but if you try to play like sekiro to spam block between attacks, of course, it's going to feel clunky.

But this game does want you to use perfect block, because it rewards you for going on the offence instead of dodging and running away, so it does want you to play like Sekiro. And guarding doesn't work against bosses who spam 8 or 9 consecutive attacks followed by a red attack, you need to perfect block in those situations. In this game guarding only works for some "normal" enemies who don't spam as many attacks and so you can attack them and get the health back.

[Lynfinity]

Originally posted by master.yoda99:

But this game does want you to use perfect block so it does want you to play like Sekiro.

It wants you to use every offensive and defensive tool at your disposal. Some attacks you better of parrying, other attacks are really hard to parry so you better of dodging, and then there's also regular block which has definetely-not-Rally system attached to it.

The path to success is to use everything, and to keep in mind that Lies of P is its own game. Relying on one single tool too much will get you killed more times than you'd care to admit.

[master.yoda99]

Originally posted by master.yoda99:

Originally posted by Okat:

maybe you felt frustrated because you went into it thinking it is sekiro and played like sekiro, and since you didn't get the sekiro gameplay your experience became worse. The parry timing is way too short for you to perfect guard flurry of attacks in this game. It can be done, but I see people trying to do exactly that and get frustrated they can't do it. I just either run out of it, dodge it or guard it. It's not sekiro, don't play like one. The game is incredibly fluid, but if you try to play like sekiro to spam block between attacks, of course, it's going to feel clunky.

But this game does want you to use perfect block so it does want you to play like Sekiro.

Originally posted by SpaceHobo:

Originally posted by Okat:

maybe you felt frustrated because you went into it thinking it is sekiro and played like sekiro, and since you didn't get the sekiro gameplay your experience became worse. The parry timing is way too short for you to perfect guard flurry of attacks in this game. It can be done, but I see people trying to do exactly that and get frustrated they can't do it. I just either run out of it, dodge it or guard it. It's not sekiro, don't play like one.

Pretty much why the game will stay mediocre, people will defend terrible design till their death.

Yep if they make the perfect block/parry more responsive with a larger window, and also let you cancel attacks, then this game will be so much more fun and rewarding to play. It might make the game a little easier but the way I see it, the game is hard enough already, so if they can make the combat more fun it is worth it.

[Aletheia]

It is not Sekiro. It borrows a little from it though. Lies of P is meant to be played with counter and evade in mind, BOTH.

[JP]

Originally posted by SpaceHobo:

Originally posted by Okat:

maybe you felt frustrated because you went into it thinking it is sekiro and played like sekiro, and since you didn't get the sekiro gameplay your experience became worse. The parry timing is way too short for you to perfect guard flurry of attacks in this game. It can be done, but I see people trying to do exactly that and get frustrated they can't do it. I just either run out of it, dodge it or guard it. It's not sekiro, don't play like one.

Pretty much why the game will stay mediocre, people will defend terrible design till their death.

Skill issue. You can perfect guard every attack in the game. If you aren't patient enough to learn how to do so, you have a whole arsenal of defensive tech at your disposal.

[JP]

Originally posted by master.yoda99:

Originally posted by master.yoda99:

But this game does want you to use perfect block so it does want you to play like Sekiro.

Originally posted by SpaceHobo:

Pretty much why the game will stay mediocre, people will defend terrible design till their death.

Yep if they make the perfect block/parry more responsive with a larger window, and also let you cancel attacks, then this game will be so much more fun and rewarding to play. It might make the game a little easier but the way I see it, the game is hard enough already, so if they can make the combat more fun it is worth it.

The window is honestly pretty big and easy to hit, and also forgiving if you hit it early. GIT GUD

[Pink Eye]

Originally posted by master.yoda99:

it might make the game a little easier

Naaah. Where a lot of these souls like tend to fumble on is embracing clunky, jank difficulty instead of focusing on being good action game first then difficulty later. The difficulty itself should stem from the boss design, enemy design, and so on. It shouldn't make the game easier if the player is not being frustrated over their toolset - that's the wrong kind of difficulty, and is also why a lot of these souls likes get forgotten. It's funny how the best souls likes are those that go into different direction rather than mimicking Dark Souls.

Take for example Ninja Gaiden for the Xbox. Fluid controls. Responsive gameplay. It focuses on being a good action game first by facilitating smooth gameplay. The difficulty then comes from the enemies themselves - good difficulty. Another is Nioh 2. Again very responsive gameplay, it doesn't feel bad to operate at all, and the difficulty comes from the bosses as well as the enemies.

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

keep in mind that Lies of P is its own game.

in my experience, when someone says that it's to excuse bad game design. No offense. Especially when people bring up examples of how x or y game did z thing better.

[master.yoda99]

Originally posted by Lynfinity:

Originally posted by master.yoda99:

But this game does want you to use perfect block so it does want you to play like Sekiro.

It wants you to use every offensive and defensive tool at your disposal. Some attacks you better of parrying, other attacks are really hard to parry so you better of dodging, and then there's also regular block which has definetely-not-Rally system attached to it.

The path to success is to use everything, and to keep in mind that Lies of P is its own game. Relying on one single tool too much will get you killed more times than you'd care to admit.

The regular block doesn't work well against bosses who spam 7 or 8 very fast and powerful attacks in rapid succession and followed by the red attack which can only be diffused by a perfect block. The regular block only works on some "normal enemies" who don't spam as many attacks which allow you to counter attack and regain some health. In combat, the game rewards you for going on the offence instead of running away and using dodge, so this is like Sekiro. Mastering perfect block is essential to beating this game. But the parrying window is too short and unforgiving, and it doesn't let you cancel attacks.

There are other annoyances like when you are walking on a beam or along the cliff edge, you see a treasure box, but as you run towards it, they have enemies hiding around the corner and then surprise push you off the ledge as you walk past, and you end up falling to your death. That is extremely annoying too. I just don't see how that sort of stuff is an exercise of your skills.

This guy also made some valid criticisms about the game - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd4okFNgb2U&ab_channel=Elbethium

I am not bashing the game. I want the game to be more fun because I absolutely love Krat and the artistic direction. I would like to play NG+, and try different story choices. But as of now, I don't want to go through the game the 2nd time because my first playthrough wasn't fun. When I beat the nameless puppet today, my feeling was "relived" and that is not a good sign.