Chicken Invaders Universe

Chicken Invaders Universe

Waryth May 12, 2021 @ 10:13pm
Game has hidden paywall enough to be Pay-to-Win
EARLY ACCESS STATUS
Yes, I'm well aware that the game is in Early Access. What we have isn't final but the fact that it is being monetize during EA status doesn't change anything. EA Status can't be used as a scapegoat for this. This post is meant as a feedback & suggestion hoping it'll be changed before release.

Definition of Pay-to-Win
Using my own definition of pay-to-win:
    "You are required to pay because there's a paywall in order to win."

Leaderboard Competitiveness
Yes, you can win waves and missions but what about WINNING first place?

Image of Pay-to-Win Leaderboard[i.ibb.co]
    Website redirects to .png image. if you have anti-virus you shouldn't worry about accessing it
If only you can grind everything here to balance things out but you CANNOT. there is a PAYWALL that makes it a PAY-TO-WIN.

There's leaderboards here and the sad truth is that the leaderboards can be dominated by the whales. You can't attain first place and be the best when your opponents have superior spacecraft than everyone else and equip it with a lot of consumable enough to blast through the difficulty missions with ease and even ascend through the ranks for completing it very fast. People who pulled this stunt off gets rewarded multiple times than what an average F2Per would do.

CHICKEN HUNTER LICENSE = PAYWALL
The main problem of this P2W Paywall issue is the Chicken Hunter License. Many won't notice it or put a blind eye on it not until they've navigated all through the buttons to find things out.

Full detailed list of what Chicken Hunter License can provide:

PAYWALL/PAY-TO-DRESS FEATURES
    SKINS/TEXTURE
    • Wing texture CHL Exclusive 1
    • Wing texture CHL Exclusive 2
    • Wing texture CHL Exclusive 3
    • Front winglet texture CHL Exclusive
    • Fuselage texture CHL Exclusive 1
    • Fuselage texture CHL Exclusive 2
    • Pods texture CHL Exclusive
PAYWALL/PAY-TO-DRESS/PAY-TO-WIN FEATURES
    SKINS/MODEL
    • BX-9 Mjölnir

        Hardpoints
        6
        Satellites
        5
        Slots
        20
        Features: Firepower extender.


    • H&C 301 Cockerel

        Hardpoints
        2
        Satellites
        2
        Slots
        10
        Features: Reduced vacuum dynamic drag.


    • Müller M408 Cuisinier
        Hardpoints
        6
        Satellites
        4
        Slots
        18
        Features: Twin engines for improved maneuverability.

PAYWALL/PAY-TO-WIN FEATURES
    ADDITIONAL WEEKLY
    • Ironman Competition

        Allows players to participate in the leaderboard ranking that grants up to 90-900~ish Keys weekly!

The Pay-to-Win Method
If whales would want to win, all they have to do is buy a Chicken Hunter License and additional keys (7,500/15,000) to purchase any single CHL Spacecraft and consumable/upgrades.

Now all they have to do is simply participate Ironman Competition along with other leaderboard rankings to double, if not triple their gain.
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Showing 1-15 of 43 comments
Waryth May 12, 2021 @ 10:13pm 
I have some suggestions to solve this matter:

SOLUTION 1 "REMOVE Free-to-Play"
This is the easiest solution so far to balance everything out in terms of competitiveness. It removes the paywall by making everyone pay for the Chicken Hunter License right at the start. There won't be any more paywalls by then.

What about the ones who made progress to the game as F2P?
  • Either gift them Chicken Hunter License for playing Early Access
  • They'll have to purchase the game to continue.

If the game is dying sooner or later this is when you make the game Free-to-Play without Chicken Hunter License to make it available for everyone. Only keys as microtransaction are going to be available. Remember, no paywall.

SOLUTION 2 "CHL can be perm. obtained for 20,000~ keys"
Reward your free-to-play players who's been loyal to the game and keeping the communities alive. All they have to do is keep playing the game for 20,000 keys and have to grind additionally.
76561199162088641 May 13, 2021 @ 1:38am 
H&C 301, Muller M408, BX-9 can be bought without a CHL, just the key price is doubled without CHL. Also Muller M408 Cushiner is worse than Muller M404 Pi Deliverer though, since while M408 has 2 more slots, it also has a slightly bigger hitbox, while also having 4 satellite slots. Bombers are also too slow to be viable, so better stick with H&Cs and Mullers.
Last edited by _notSoRandom :D; May 13, 2021 @ 1:41am
Waryth May 13, 2021 @ 1:46am 
Originally posted by _someRandomDude:
H&C 301, Muller M408, BX-9 can be bought without a CHL, just the key price is doubled without CHL. Also Muller M408 Cushiner is worse than Muller M404 Pi Deliverer though, since while M408 has 2 more slots, it also has a slightly bigger hitbox, while also having 4 satellite slots. Bombers are also too slow to be viable, so better stick with H&Cs and Mullers.
doesn't matter, still paywall.

Hitbox are no big deal when you can just let some of your consumable do the projectile clearing.
76561199162088641 May 13, 2021 @ 2:08am 
Originally posted by Waryth:
Originally posted by _someRandomDude:
H&C 301, Muller M408, BX-9 can be bought without a CHL, just the key price is doubled without CHL. Also Muller M408 Cushiner is worse than Muller M404 Pi Deliverer though, since while M408 has 2 more slots, it also has a slightly bigger hitbox, while also having 4 satellite slots. Bombers are also too slow to be viable, so better stick with H&Cs and Mullers.
doesn't matter, still paywall.

Hitbox are no big deal when you can just let some of your consumable do the projectile clearing.
Projectile clearing isn't the best thing superweapons can do through. Dimensional Phase-out makes you invincible for 4 seconds(also the first superweapon to receive a nerf), and pros often use Damage Amplifiers to triple the damage out for 10 seconds for quickly killing enemies. However, mountable slots are limited to 30, so a pay-to-win not-so-pro player will use up all available superweapons earlier.
Enhawk May 13, 2021 @ 3:11am 
This is some ripe bullcrap. I've personally managed to get on leaderboards with no equipment whatsoever on a H&C 101 before micros were implemented. There were dedicated changes made to challenges suggested by the community to level the playing field as much as possible, so that the only deciding parameter was skill. There is also no real benefit to the last models of ship series (although this is a fault of the game's design rather than an intentional choice).


Originally posted by Waryth:
I have some suggestions to solve this matter:
There's leaderboards here and the sad truth is that the leaderboards can be dominated by the whales. You can't attain first place and be the best when your opponents have superior spacecraft than everyone else and equip it with a lot of consumable enough to blast through the difficulty missions with ease and even ascend through the ranks for completing it very fast. People who pulled this stunt off gets rewarded multiple times than what an average F2Per would do.

You do realize that these players (whom you call "whales") have been playing the game since the release when there were no microtransactions to speak of and have been the heart and soul of the community for a long time. The CHL isn't a paywall, it's a joke with no real benefit. Just get better at the game. Even if you end up on the leaderboard, if you're tanking up equipment you're going to lose money anyway, and to stay there you need to grind, which ironically is what you see as "loyal", and that is exactly what they have been doing. The challenges are skill based. There's even bonuses for doing it equipmentless and for flying it with a starter ship for crying out loud.

tl;dr the game suffers heavily in terms of MMO design but it's nowhere near pay-to-win. Yes, you can pay to speed up the process, but currently nobody does that, and it's not a requirement to play.
Last edited by Enhawk; May 13, 2021 @ 3:17am
GgWw1175 May 13, 2021 @ 3:17am 
I fail to see how any of this is "pay to win". At the current point, this is (unfortunately) a glorified single-player game with leaderboards. The only things you can "win" are higher spots on said leaderboards and dares. Just because a player is getting more keys than another one doesn't mean they're "winning". It just means they're getting more keys.

As explained above, you can buy the highest tier spacecraft of each family without CHL - the price is just doubled. Even then, they're not all that great. The H&C 301 is pretty much the only good one, though if you really want more satellites then it's probably better to just invest into an M404-PI. The M408 is a downgrade from the M404-PI, and while the BX-9 is quite broken in terms of damage output, it's also way too big and slow to be viable.
Waryth May 13, 2021 @ 3:18am 
Originally posted by _someRandomDude:
Projectile clearing isn't the best thing superweapons can do through. Dimensional Phase-out makes you invincible for 4 seconds(also the first superweapon to receive a nerf), and pros often use Damage Amplifiers to triple the damage out for 10 seconds for quickly killing enemies. However, mountable slots are limited to 30, so a pay-to-win not-so-pro player will use up all available superweapons earlier.
Yeah I get it, a pay-to-win not-so-pro player won't be able to do much about it anyway..

BUT THE FACT REMAINS that.. there's a PAYWALL in the system! and that itself is pay-to-win. It doesn't matter if they do it or not as long as they have the upper hand than what others don't have. It's the game business model that is ruining the free-to-play genre.

Its their own game I understand but once you've unlocked everything then now what? the rest are NOT unlockable. This is when they require you to pay to unlock the final spacecraft and other paintjobs.

It's NOT free as you don't get to access everything. If it's free and I get to play it then what about a DEMO? A demo isn't listed as free? What's the difference between this and a demo if I couldn't get to unlock everything.
Waryth May 13, 2021 @ 3:19am 
Originally posted by The Senate:
You do realize that these players (whom you call "whales") have been playing the game since the release *when there were no microtransactions to speak of*
What's there to whale when there's no microtransaction to speak of? that's NOT the definition of whale that you're bringing up.

Originally posted by The Senate:
The CHL isn't a paywall, it's a joke with no real benefit.
Do you even MATH? Numbers accumulate and gives better advantage depending on how it's been used.

Originally posted by The Senate:
This is some ripe bullcrap. I've managed to get on leaderboards with no equipment whatsoever on a H&C 101.
It's because the game is still in an EARLY ACCESS STATE. There's even a possibility of an account wipe so the whales whom you're trying to underestimate are still in goldfish stage.

Once the game is officially released, the results are going to be different since there's no account wipes.
Enhawk May 13, 2021 @ 3:32am 
Originally posted by Waryth:
What's there to whale when there's no microtransaction to speak of? that's NOT the definition of whale that you're bringing up.
You made the post on the assumption that the current players dominating the leaderboards were stocking up on those key micros. The thing is, they weren't, and aren't, and tactics to dominate the leaderboards used before micros were introduced are still valid i.e. they haven't changed the scene whatsoever since it's skill, not equipment deciding what goes on the leaderboards.
Originally posted by Waryth:
Originally posted by The Senate:
The CHL isn't a paywall, it's a joke with no real benefit.
Do you even MATH? Numbers accumulate and gives better advantage depending on how it's been used.
I... don't get what's being accumulated here. Please clarify. The CHL is a one-time purchase that unlocks some things. If you're talking about key microtransactions, there's no sum of money that could possibly beat the people grinding it out currently.
Originally posted by Waryth:
It's because the game is still in an EARLY ACCESS STATE. There's even a possibility of an account wipe so the whales whom you're trying to underestimate are still in goldfish stage.

Once the game is officially released, the results are going to be different since there's no account wipes.
I've followed the development of this game for three years now. There never has been an account wipe for players with more than two hours of playtime. My own current account is two years old.
Mama Shinki May 13, 2021 @ 3:36am 
Even if you attempted Ironman or Double Team... Would you dare to try it again? Consecutively? And waste all your perishables or Special Weapons again? Sure, you gain 3 times the keys, but is it worth the amount of preparation required? Will you gain more than you spent to get number 1 on the Ironman Leaderboards?

And as for the CHL: It's only an option. Not a MUST.

Oh and by the way there is no goal in this game, it's an MMO
Last edited by Mama Shinki; May 13, 2021 @ 3:41am
Waryth May 13, 2021 @ 3:53am 
Originally posted by The Senate:
You made the post on the assumption that the current players dominating the leaderboards were stocking up on those key micros. The thing is, they weren't, and aren't, and tactics to dominate the leaderboards used before micros were introduced are still valid i.e. they haven't changed the scene whatsoever since it's skill, not equipment deciding what goes on the leaderboards.

Here's what I actually wrote in case you missed it:
Originally posted by Waryth:
There's leaderboards here and the sad truth is that the leaderboards can be dominated by the whales.
"CAN be dominated by the whales"

Yes. you're right as of now. The game just got released on Steam this year while you're on your 3rd year. I'm not saying there is a current whale that is a threat in the leaderboards but that possibility exist in the near future.

Originally posted by The Senate:
I... don't get what's being accumulated here. Please clarify. The CHL is a one-time purchase that unlocks some things.
So to sum things up you're replying in my post without any issues in paywall and has a Chicken Hunter License while debunking my statements...? Of course you won't have any issues because you paid for the license! ...for a game branded as free-to-play which is ironic.

Originally posted by Mama Sariel:
Even if you attempted Ironman or Double Team... Would you dare to try it again? Consecutively? And waste all your perishables or Special Weapons again? Sure, you gain 3 times the keys,
To my knowledge, you can simply enter a mission without any lives and get rewards and the keys you've collected. It's an additional mission which is a content that can't be played without CHL.

Originally posted by Mama Sariel:
And as for the CHL: It's only an option. Not a MUST.
and that option you speak of gives advantage, that fits the Pay-to-Win or rather I wanna emphasize it as a paywall.

I have to pay for CHL to get the last 3 remaining spacecraft upgrades.

You'd be right if it was only for the paintjobs but come on, we're talking about UPGRADES here. This is no pay-to-dress as you think it is.

Do you all even care about stats at all? It sounds like all of you would just be fine owning a counterfeit iPhone when that's not the true power of an iPhone.

H&C 201 Pullet & H&C 301 Cockerel may look the same but they're NOT. They're not identical, in fact one of them is superior.
Last edited by Waryth; May 13, 2021 @ 3:54am
Mama Shinki May 13, 2021 @ 4:22am 
Originally posted by Waryth:
To my knowledge, you can simply enter a mission without any lives and get rewards and the keys you've collected. It's an additional mission which is a content that can't be played without CHL.
Indeed, it is. But if you tried the said mission, you'll find out why it requires a CHL.

Originally posted by Waryth:
I have to pay for CHL to get the last 3 remaining spacecraft upgrades.
To an extent, that is true. But you can actually buy them as "Contraband" for double the key cost. (It's stupid I agree)
However, the real question comes in for said "upgrades":
Are they actually going to help you at all? Will you win more missions? Or are they just something else you can just use for the heck of it?

The H&C 301 Cockerel in comparison to the H&C 201 Pullet, has an extra Satellite port, and has 2 more item slots. There is no downsides to this one.

The M408 in comparison to the M404-PI, only has 2 extra item slots, and another hardpoint slot. It also has a bigger hitbox than the M404.

The BX-9 in comparison to the BX-8, has an extra hardpoint slot, satellite port and Item Slot. It also has 2 extra firepower levels (Max of 20)
It also has a slower speed and larger hitbox than the BX-8.

The "H&C" ships have the smallest hitbox in the game.

The "Muller" ships have slightly bigger hitboxes, each ship after the M400 having increasingly larger hitboxes. But they are capable of holding more supplies in comparison to the H&Cs.

The "BX" ships have two weapon pylons, a speed limit, and the largest hitboxes. Each BX after the BX-6 have increasing speed limits, hitboxes, and firepower limit. BX-6 has a max of 14, BX-7 with a max of 16, BX-8 with a max of 18, and the BX-9 with a max of 20.
(A Weapon Pylon gets upgraded with each firepower level, but the left pylon takes priority first. So if you have FP 15, the left Pylon would have 8 firepower, and the right Pylon would have 7 firepower. When you have 16, both Pylons will then have 8 firepower together.)

The BX-9 may seem godly, but are you able to use it efficiently and not crash into every bullet that comes your way, even with the largest hitbox, and slowest speed?

For your information: The "features" at the bottom of the ship description are just merely cosmetic. They actually have no effect on your ship at all, it's just there for show.
I'm talking about this btw: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/830384220055797790/842362424890753034/Screenshot_413.png

Originally posted by Waryth:
It sounds like all of you would just be fine owning a counterfeit iPhone when that's not the true power of an iPhone.
I prefer Android :V

Originally posted by Waryth:
H&C 201 Pullet & H&C 301 Cockerel may look the same but they're NOT. They're not identical, in fact one of them is superior.
The H&C 301 Cockerel & Muller M400 Caterer may look different, but they're the same. They may look different, but one of them is better than the other.
Last edited by Mama Shinki; May 13, 2021 @ 4:28am
GgWw1175 May 13, 2021 @ 4:25am 
Originally posted by Waryth:
It sounds like all of you would just be fine owning a counterfeit iPhone when that's not the true power of an iPhone.
Why would I own a counterfeit iPhone, or a real one for that matter, if I could just own something that isn't an iPhone? The physical mute switch is nice, but not a dealbreaker.

Originally posted by Waryth:
I have to pay for CHL to get the last 3 remaining spacecraft upgrades.
For the fourth (I think?) time - you do not have to pay for CHL to get the last 3 ships.
Last edited by GgWw1175; May 13, 2021 @ 4:25am
Enhawk May 13, 2021 @ 4:32am 
Originally posted by Waryth:
Originally posted by The Senate:
You made the post on the assumption that the current players dominating the leaderboards were stocking up on those key micros. The thing is, they weren't, and aren't, and tactics to dominate the leaderboards used before micros were introduced are still valid i.e. they haven't changed the scene whatsoever since it's skill, not equipment deciding what goes on the leaderboards.

Here's what I actually wrote in case you missed it:
Originally posted by Waryth:
There's leaderboards here and the sad truth is that the leaderboards can be dominated by the whales.
"CAN be dominated by the whales"

Yes. you're right as of now. The game just got released on Steam this year while you're on your 3rd year. I'm not saying there is a current whale that is a threat in the leaderboards but that possibility exist in the near future.
If you've played the game for longer than an hour, you'd know this to not be the case.
Originally posted by Waryth:
No, it doesn't. Even if you stock up completely there's still no chance to get onto the leaderboards if you lack skill; the game is designed thus.
Originally posted by The Senate:
I... don't get what's being accumulated here. Please clarify. The CHL is a one-time purchase that unlocks some things.
So to sum things up you're replying in my post without any issues in paywall and has a Chicken Hunter License while debunking my statements...? Of course you won't have any issues because you paid for the license! ...for a game branded as free-to-play which is ironic.
I don't own a license. There is a paywall, but it does not give benefits that can give someone an advantage considerable enough to dominate leaderboards. Please understand that. It's incredibly clear from your post that you haven't played the game long enough to actually know what the stats are and how they affect gameplay. I assume you're talking about the keys that you can buy, in which case you could just grind the keys to give virtually the same result and be advantaged still due to the skill gained along the way. Understand the nature of the challenges here.
Originally posted by Waryth:
Originally posted by Mama Sariel:
Even if you attempted Ironman or Double Team... Would you dare to try it again? Consecutively? And waste all your perishables or Special Weapons again? Sure, you gain 3 times the keys,
To my knowledge, you can simply enter a mission without any lives and get rewards and the keys you've collected. It's an additional mission which is a content that can't be played without CHL.
Keys gained by those missions are the same keys as those gained by other methods. There is no difference in the keys obtained by, Supernova missions, or Chicken Invasions, or anything else. Please understand that.
Originally posted by Waryth:
Originally posted by Mama Sariel:
And as for the CHL: It's only an option. Not a MUST.
and that option you speak of gives advantage, that fits the Pay-to-Win or rather I wanna emphasize it as a paywall.

I have to pay for CHL to get the last 3 remaining spacecraft upgrades.

You'd be right if it was only for the paintjobs but come on, we're talking about UPGRADES here. This is no pay-to-dress as you think it is.

Do you all even care about stats at all? It sounds like all of you would just be fine owning a counterfeit iPhone when that's not the true power of an iPhone.

H&C 201 Pullet & H&C 301 Cockerel may look the same but they're NOT. They're not identical, in fact one of them is superior.

Once again, I repeat, most of the stats don't affect gameplay. Playing with a H&C 201 and M408 is literally the same with no differences whatsoever. CHL is a paywall, but it's entirely optional and doesn't affect gameplay at all. Ironman is an incredibly difficult challenge beyond what you see in the game, and that's fine. Even completing it takes incredible skill; you just cant whale your way through it, because it's that difficult.

Edit: added some things i didn't say and patched an embarrassing formatting error.
Last edited by Enhawk; May 13, 2021 @ 4:34am
Waryth May 13, 2021 @ 4:49am 
You guys are replying to my post in a coordinated manner so I suspect both of you are in the same discord discussing my post and post at the same time.

This is just sad and depressing on how the community are just fine as it is with the paywall. None of my words are reaching to any of you. It's just fine experiencing the restrictions as long as you're enjoying it when in fact that's not even the full game.

I was once like you defending games like this in the past but they weren't true to its genre. It took me time to realize it that in the end, game industries are just a manipulative business and that hidden paywall that once you've had unlocked everything will encourage you to grind the last spacecrafts and pay for the game.

Now I'll drop my biggest chicken concern of all:

Why should people pay for a Chicken Hunter License for this and grind when you can just pay for Chicken Invaders 5/4/3 for almost the same price with a better storyline and less grind than this?

You get to explore the galaxy for a fix route anyway and get to access and unlock everything. There's even a multiplayer and leaderboards.

See what I mean? There's something wrong with this game's business model and I'm not in favor of it.
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